Options
Horror stories at local B&M
QuarterCollector
Posts: 1,384 ✭
Ok, this thread is not attempting to make local B&Ms look bad, shady, or whatever you want to call it. Most are up front and honest people. I'm just curious if anyone else has seen dealings like this one.
Quick story that happened to me today.... I'm going through a small group of mixed series at a local B&M in NJ near where I live and a two kids (18 to 19 years old) walk in. They have a few old half dollar books (15 to 20) which they wish to sell. The owner goes through the books and is sure to point out how warn the coins are. He even pulled out a 40's MS-66 so that they can see the difference between conditions. He then offers them silver spot which they accept and then leave. After they leave he gets on the phone and tells the person on the other end that he just got SEVERAL 1921 P, D, S, in XF-AU and to stop by. After he gets off the phone I ask to see his pick-up. I couldn't believe my eyes when he showed me 15 different 1921's P, D, and S ranging from F to BU. There was also a bunch of 1916's and so on. I asked him if he felt bad ripping off those kids. He got a little pissed and said something like they were adults who should have researched what they had before selling it. I figure he walked away with several thousand dollars. True, the kids should have pick up a price guide which he did have several on the counter. I like the store because there is a very large inventory of raw stuff comimg in all the time but this situation left a bad taste in my mouth.
Quick story that happened to me today.... I'm going through a small group of mixed series at a local B&M in NJ near where I live and a two kids (18 to 19 years old) walk in. They have a few old half dollar books (15 to 20) which they wish to sell. The owner goes through the books and is sure to point out how warn the coins are. He even pulled out a 40's MS-66 so that they can see the difference between conditions. He then offers them silver spot which they accept and then leave. After they leave he gets on the phone and tells the person on the other end that he just got SEVERAL 1921 P, D, S, in XF-AU and to stop by. After he gets off the phone I ask to see his pick-up. I couldn't believe my eyes when he showed me 15 different 1921's P, D, and S ranging from F to BU. There was also a bunch of 1916's and so on. I asked him if he felt bad ripping off those kids. He got a little pissed and said something like they were adults who should have researched what they had before selling it. I figure he walked away with several thousand dollars. True, the kids should have pick up a price guide which he did have several on the counter. I like the store because there is a very large inventory of raw stuff comimg in all the time but this situation left a bad taste in my mouth.
0
Comments
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>That's just ridiculous. What an a$$hole >>
Well said.
I mean - REALLY!
I'm not surprised at all. If Bernie Madoff can do it, then so should anyone else be able to.
"Because I can"
myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
Tell the guy he's got a horrible reputation...which he'll have after you spread the word. What an a$$, as someone else mentioned.
<< <i>That is so sickening.
I mean - REALLY!
Half way thru the post - I had to stop reading - I actually became ill.
The disposal of what ever collection I own at the time of my passing
[ not for many years to come ! ] will be outlined in my will. I hope to
have as close to current values attached to each slab.
I also wondered where two 18- 19 yr olds had gotten a dozen XF/AU - 1921's.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Please out the B&M so I may never shop there.
Free Trial
that's the part that seems wrong, the guy in question pretty much told them they didn't have anything while he knew they did. bad dealer.
here's two stories from the past week-----one guy, a collector/dealer type who's a regular, came in with a bunch of Washingtons which we offered him melt for. he knew what he had so we just looked through them to make sure there were no clads and found a 1932-S that we paid him the premium for. i can't believe he hadn't looked at the stuff and almost gave it away. the second was the weeks pile of Buffalo Nickels i was sorting through. we buy them and only check for full date/no date when we buy and pay accordingly. quite a few were G-VG's worth from $15-$40, stuff like teens and early 20's with MM's and full dates.
doing retail across the counter or at a show can't be the type of thing where a dealer looks at every coin, assesses a grade/value and barters with the seller. if that was the norm, lines would form quickly and the wheels would grind to a halt. it isn't ethical to "cheat" a customer but i believe it's a reasonable expectation for a customer to accept responsibility at the point of sale.
--Severian the Lame
Regardless of the dealer's instinct regarding guilt or innocence, it should in no way enable him to feel it appropriate to screw these kids out of a couple thousand dollar's.
My grandfather died when I was 17 and left me coins, stamps, and other items. Fortunately I grew up in a family of collector's so I was privy to the value of the items that I received. But I just as easily could have been completely naive and taken my new found inheritance to local shops looking to make a quick buck to buy the newest video game without ever knowing the real value of what I just parted ways with.
What that guy did was just WRONG!!!!
Visit my son's caringbridge page @ Runner's Caringbridge Page
"To Give Anything Less than Your Best, Is to Sacrifice the Gift" - Steve Prefontaine
<< <i>more power to the dealer. >>
WHAT!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
To deliberatley pilfer anyones' good is beyond pitiful.
And the dealer not hiding in the least, even sharing with his customers in earshot how he helped the kids fence their stolen goods and ripped them off on top of it all.
That's just pure BS. Sorry, but I can't sugar coat it.
I inherited a large selection of silver coins, (large by my standards-about 30 coins) which included 5 Peace and 2 Morgan dollars, when I was 17 as well. I didn't do anything with them until I was 23 but that is besides the point. None of mine happened to be anything particulatly valuable-but they sure as heck were not stolen. In fact, they were pulled out of circulation when they actually circulated!
Tom
<< <i>You could call the local police and let them know incase someone has or does report matching items stolen. >>
<< <i>Sounds like the kind of dealer I have seen most of my life,,,, >>
////////////////////
Ditto.
Not a rare happening at all. It goes on everyday, in every town/city;
it's just the nature of the biznez.
<< <i>
<< <i>You could call the local police and let them know incase someone has or does report matching items stolen. >>
I did call the PD and they took a matter of record. For what it's worth the kids did not seem like that type. I work at Trenton State Prison so I'm a pretty good judge of character, especially, criminal character. Stupid yes, thieves I don't think so.
Last year i rented a duplex to a 18 year old kid that could not rent from a large complex because he did not have any credit. The kid was willing to pay his rent up a year at a time and no one would take him. I do not usually rent to kids but agreed to rent to him under a few different conditions. Where did he get his money? His father was killed when he was 15 years old and this was part of the insurance settlement. The day he turned 18 he was given full access. He is now on year 2 at my duplexs and i am sorry to say he is just about broke. He had to sell one of his mustangs to come up with this years rent.
My son is 17 years old, quite a few of his friends drive cars and trucks that are new and cost over 35k, they all have credit cards with their parents name on them and spend at least 250 dollars a week. I feel sorry for them when they have to start supporting themselves. His friends know that i collect coins and they are always bring albums over for me to look at. These have been given to them by their grandparents or parents. I can see the day not so far away in the future when these get sold. My son told me of one kid that got into a little trouble with the law and they used a 18 year old to sell some coins to a Local B&M. They recieved 300 bucks for what i know would have been an easy 1500 dollars on ebay. I was irratated to say the least. I ask my son why they went to the coin store and not me. His repy was they were embarsed and did not want me to know.
I can tell you stories about 18 year olds with 2 kids on federal housing to 16 year olds driving hummers where i live. Not ever kid is a thief.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
100% Positive BST transactions
With the downturn in the economy, I can only imagine the stuff coming into stores nowadays.
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
Think about it.
Dispatch receives call, right? - I'm not sure THEY would understand that a crime has been committed, any Law broke, what ordinance or
what code/ signal to dispatch it as.
The Officer would NOT get the picture, I'm sure!
How would the caller know for sure and be able to PROVE in Court, that an otherwise everyday transaction between consenting adults, somehow prove to be a Crime?
What law has he/ she broken?
Can't you just picture this in Court? The Judge would undoubtedly, inevitably come to the same conclusion ... that an agreement was struck - that all parties involved agreed and therefore, no law was broken?!
That's REALLY sad! No REAL Statute/ Ordinance has been broken here. The dealer would walk!
The moment the deal is struck - I'm afraid .. that's that!
<< <i>C'mon guys. How do you think B&M's stay in business? Selling SAFLIPS?? Selling State Quarters? Please.
With the downturn in the economy, I can only imagine the stuff coming into stores nowadays. >>
It amazes me that there are actually people here who defend such a dealer. But then again, unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me either. Truely sad.
<< <i>If on the 1% chance they're not stolen, then more power to the dealer. >>
Weiss---This statement says a lot about your ethics.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Not coin related but the local coin store is also a sport memorbilia shop. I had 2 original Super Bowl I ticket stubs (unfortunately, not my stubs) and the dealer said "No one collects these, I could probably never sell them. I'll give you 5 bucks for them". Long story short, I sold them for $525 on Ebay. >>
Did you print out the eBay auction and give him an "in your face"?
<< <i>The dealer knows those kids would never come back to complain, since they stole the material. And then the dealer stole it from them. And round and round we go, lyin', cheatin' and stealin' all the way, in this greatest nation on God's Green Earth! >>
And you know for a fact that those kids stole em?
<< <i>That's just ridiculous. What an a$$hole. >>
Actually, it sounds like a typical B&M coin dealer to me.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yup.
I know every one's first reaction is disgust at this story,
But if you spend some time as a small business owner and
live the life of massive expenses to stay in business and
massive taxation and massive regulation,
and thieves and shoplifters.
Well, the story begins to become at least understandable.
Expenses are not paid by selling coin holders.
The dealer showed very bad taste by not waiting
to make the phone call in private.
Without all the massive government regulation
and taxation, a small business owners expenses
might be half of what they are today or less.
So who do you really blame for this type of behavior?
Regards, Steve K.
Anyway, what the dealer did was wrong, period. It doesn't matter if the 2 guys broke into a house and stole the collection, stole it from their Dad or received them in an honest way. Either way, what the dealer did was wrong. Sure, it probably wouldn't stand up in a court of law, but it was wrong.
The dealer had a perfect opportunity to educate a few potential new collectors. He could have discussed how conditon (which he kinda did), mintage, etc determine a coin's value. He still could have made a good margin on the coins, while giving the guys a little more cash.
<< <i>Somehow I cannot picture the conventional Police Officer even understanding that a crime has taken place.
Think about it.
Dispatch receives call, right? - I'm not sure THEY would understand that a crime has been committed, any Law broke, what ordinance or
what code/ signal to dispatch it as.
The Officer would NOT get the picture, I'm sure!
How would the caller know for sure and be able to PROVE in Court, that an otherwise everyday transaction between consenting adults, somehow prove to be a Crime?
What law has he/ she broken?
Can't you just picture this in Court? The Judge would undoubtedly, inevitably come to the same conclusion ... that an agreement was struck - that all parties involved agreed and therefore, no law was broken?!
That's REALLY sad! No REAL Statute/ Ordinance has been broken here. The dealer would walk!
The moment the deal is struck - I'm afraid .. that's that! >>
That's not completely accurate. If it is proven that the coins were stolen, the dealer does not have legal title to them and must return them to the rightful owner. The dealer cannot purchase stolen goods. Whether he did so on good faith or not, ownership of stolen goods does not transfer with a sale. Otherwise every thief would simply "sell" their stolen property immediately "cleansing" the property and making ownership by anyone legal.
We used to run across this occasionally when we would buy over-the-counter at the coin shop I worked at. We learned to hold "suspected" items for the "legal" limit of 10 days (or it could have been 7 days) before we disposed of them. Nonetheless, if later it was proven that we purchased stolen goods, we were legally required to return the items at our loss if we still had them. Fortunately, this rarely happened and when it did, the victim was usually happy to pay us our cost so we did not have to take a loss.
I do appreciate, however, that the same laws may not be in place everywhere, but I am sure the principle is the same.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>
<< <i>If on the 1% chance they're not stolen, then more power to the dealer. >>
Weiss---This statement says a lot about your ethics. >>
True. Too true. And the fact that you'd use an incomplete quote says everything about yours.
--Severian the Lame
There are NO shops except for his in a large radius of that area.
merse
Anybody that does is asking for trouble.
It's amazing how many kids "don't know Mom's work number" when they have something good to sell, and of course forgot the driver's license.
Out the door they go I don't buy
<< <i>So who do you really blame for this type of behavior? >>
Um, I blame the dealer. I don't blame the big bad government for all my problems.
If a shop cannot stay in business and make a fair living w/o ripping off the public from time to time, then it's time to find a new business. There's no reason for it. On the flip side, I know there are very few shops that won't take advantage of walk-ins from time to time. They chalk it up to business and paying the rent. It doesn't make it right.
The irony of the above situation is, if you make a fair offer every time (say 60-80% for better material, such as this was) the sellers will walk once they find out they have something truly valuable. And if you are an honest dealer with or without a shop trying to buy from the public at 70-90%, they will invariably avoid you and find that particular buyer who will give them peanuts...and feel good about it. Just the way it works. They are more apt to sell for peanuts than for considerable money.
roadrunner
Lafayette Grading Set
key. There is a wealth of info out there via the CU forum, net, books, magazines, etc..
I had a similar experience, ohh, about a year ago. A woman walked in with 4 1908 $20 Saints EF/AU.
Owner offered her $2k for the lot, she didn't hesitate and handed them over. This took about 1 minute to complete.
I was biting my tounge, and would have offered her a more realistic price, but resisted. Dog eat dog world we live in.
After I returned home, I asked myself, "would I have done the same?" Would my ID and Superego collide?
On the filp side, I've witnessed the same owner pay strong prices for material, but the sellers were knowledgeable.
Know what you have, be vigilant, stay informed.
Scott
Kudos to the OP for notifying the police, just in case a stolen coin collection gets reported, they know where to go hunting.
Unfortunately these rip offs occur far too often.