How this site significantly helped me (edited title)
thunderdan
Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
While I find the occasional diatribe on politics, religion, and alcohol on this site to be completely useless and annoying, the CU message board has provided a great deal of help to me over the past eight months, and I have many of you to thank for that. Here's why.
First, about seven months ago, I was able to locate another fellow collector on this board and negotiated a deal for the card I have wanted for a long time: a 1963 Topps Pete Rose PSA 9. I PM'd a number of you and even checked references to make sure the seller was honest. Turns out he was a very honest guy and I flew out to meet him at his local airport where he brought the card, and I brought cash. I love this card and will hold it for a long time (I hope). So, this board was the means by which I could find a seller, gather information from many of you who have also purchased high $ cards, and ultimately land a card I had been seeking for a long time!
Second, just last week I dodged a bullet. I purchased a card outside of eBay (seller actually violated eBay policy by soliciting me to buy some of his vintage cards) with the seller sending me the card COD and I leaving him a cashier's check for $3K (for 1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig #92 in PSA 7). He had sent me pics upfront and agreed to let me inspect the card before handing over my check to the UPS man. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary.
I was really excited as I am one of the few that seem to prefer Gehrig's 33 Goudey(s) to 34 Goudey(s). This seller had perfect feedback on eBay with 4.9 and 5.0 DSR and had been on eBay for 8 years. Also, he had sold many high value cards in the past with perfect feedback. Seemed like a really nice guy.
The UPS guy wanted to collect the check and go, and I had barely enough time to even open the card (to verify that something was shipped at least) much less inspect the card. The short of it is that once I examined the card for about 5 minutes, the frosting along the top right, top left, and top edges were noticeable. As I ran by fingernail along the seal, I could feel a little empty space every half inch or so directly under the frosting. Immediately, I became suspicious that, while this was a card in a PSA holder, that there was a chance the original card had been removed and replaced with a reprint. Immediately, I contacted the seller. I did not accuse him (and still do not) of being the person to switch the card, but it seemed obvious to me that the holder had been breached. Check out the scans and decide for yourself. I'd love to hear your opinions. The other clue is that I compared the backs to my 33 Goudey Ruth (whose holder is pristine), and the print on the Ruth was clear, block print, whereas the print on the Gehrig was slightly fuzzy.
There's even a chance that the card was legit, but I figured as long as I have doubts, I wanted my money back. This seller with pristine feedback resisted like you wouldn't believe, even suggesting that I switched the card and that he had never noticed the frosting. The short of it is that after some very nasty emailing and phone calls, he agreed to return my check. I have since received and deposited that check back into my account. I was preparing to take legal action if necessary because I felt cheated. I don't know if the seller switched the card or if he questioned the frosting on the holder and was just suspicious enough to sell it off eBay. There's even a chance he had never noticed it, though I find that very hard to believe.
This was a very unpleasant experience. However, people switching cards and breaching PSA holders would have never crossed my mind unless I had frequented this forum. In other words, I learned from your experiences and pictures, and was able to identify it for myself. So, you all sharing this information really saved me from having to eat a counterfeit card since I would never resell it on eBay as a PSA holdered card.
I've learned three important lessons here:
1) The only time I will ever pay for a card using cashier's checks is purchases made at Memory Lane, Mile High, and the like.
2) I will never again succumb to solicitation from unknown sellers on eBay.
3) eBay seller ratings don't necessary mean a seller is ethical, honest, or fair once they are removed from a controlled/enforced environment (ebay/paypal).
4) I will never transact with this seller again
Sorry for the very long posting, but the gist of this is that I learned some very valuable lessons from this transaction and was able to protect myself by reading this message board.
Now let the speculation begin as to whether this is a real or fake Gehrig...Even if I was overly cautious, I can at least sleep better at night. Another one of these will come around at some point in a clean holder where I don't have so many questions.
First, about seven months ago, I was able to locate another fellow collector on this board and negotiated a deal for the card I have wanted for a long time: a 1963 Topps Pete Rose PSA 9. I PM'd a number of you and even checked references to make sure the seller was honest. Turns out he was a very honest guy and I flew out to meet him at his local airport where he brought the card, and I brought cash. I love this card and will hold it for a long time (I hope). So, this board was the means by which I could find a seller, gather information from many of you who have also purchased high $ cards, and ultimately land a card I had been seeking for a long time!
Second, just last week I dodged a bullet. I purchased a card outside of eBay (seller actually violated eBay policy by soliciting me to buy some of his vintage cards) with the seller sending me the card COD and I leaving him a cashier's check for $3K (for 1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig #92 in PSA 7). He had sent me pics upfront and agreed to let me inspect the card before handing over my check to the UPS man. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary.
I was really excited as I am one of the few that seem to prefer Gehrig's 33 Goudey(s) to 34 Goudey(s). This seller had perfect feedback on eBay with 4.9 and 5.0 DSR and had been on eBay for 8 years. Also, he had sold many high value cards in the past with perfect feedback. Seemed like a really nice guy.
The UPS guy wanted to collect the check and go, and I had barely enough time to even open the card (to verify that something was shipped at least) much less inspect the card. The short of it is that once I examined the card for about 5 minutes, the frosting along the top right, top left, and top edges were noticeable. As I ran by fingernail along the seal, I could feel a little empty space every half inch or so directly under the frosting. Immediately, I became suspicious that, while this was a card in a PSA holder, that there was a chance the original card had been removed and replaced with a reprint. Immediately, I contacted the seller. I did not accuse him (and still do not) of being the person to switch the card, but it seemed obvious to me that the holder had been breached. Check out the scans and decide for yourself. I'd love to hear your opinions. The other clue is that I compared the backs to my 33 Goudey Ruth (whose holder is pristine), and the print on the Ruth was clear, block print, whereas the print on the Gehrig was slightly fuzzy.
There's even a chance that the card was legit, but I figured as long as I have doubts, I wanted my money back. This seller with pristine feedback resisted like you wouldn't believe, even suggesting that I switched the card and that he had never noticed the frosting. The short of it is that after some very nasty emailing and phone calls, he agreed to return my check. I have since received and deposited that check back into my account. I was preparing to take legal action if necessary because I felt cheated. I don't know if the seller switched the card or if he questioned the frosting on the holder and was just suspicious enough to sell it off eBay. There's even a chance he had never noticed it, though I find that very hard to believe.
This was a very unpleasant experience. However, people switching cards and breaching PSA holders would have never crossed my mind unless I had frequented this forum. In other words, I learned from your experiences and pictures, and was able to identify it for myself. So, you all sharing this information really saved me from having to eat a counterfeit card since I would never resell it on eBay as a PSA holdered card.
I've learned three important lessons here:
1) The only time I will ever pay for a card using cashier's checks is purchases made at Memory Lane, Mile High, and the like.
2) I will never again succumb to solicitation from unknown sellers on eBay.
3) eBay seller ratings don't necessary mean a seller is ethical, honest, or fair once they are removed from a controlled/enforced environment (ebay/paypal).
4) I will never transact with this seller again
Sorry for the very long posting, but the gist of this is that I learned some very valuable lessons from this transaction and was able to protect myself by reading this message board.
Now let the speculation begin as to whether this is a real or fake Gehrig...Even if I was overly cautious, I can at least sleep better at night. Another one of these will come around at some point in a clean holder where I don't have so many questions.
0
Comments
<< <i>Fake Flip for Certain. >>
What is a fake flip?
If you want to "cry" about the site and it's posters, at least make a separate thread ala speeder.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
Always looking for Chipper Jones cards.
Im a very focused collector of cards from 1909 - 2012...LOL
<< <i>The title of this thread doesn't seem to fit very well. After reading your novel the title should read "Why I love this site." >>
Love is a strong word. I'd say the site is growing on me, though. Bits of useful information here and there.
<< <i>Does the font on the flip look odd to anyone else?? >>
////////////////
Brian,
When I first looked at the flip, I wasn't quite sure what looked more weird, the font or the "NM" which is much darker than the rest of the letters/numbers. But now that you mentioned it, the font does look off a bit.
PoppaJ
Card looks legit imo the top has been knocked around but the seal below the flip has not been intruded. If your going to pull a quicky itd be from the
bottom or side. Also appears to be graded long time ago (pre 98) with the small font.
Again just my opinion but looks aok.
If your really paranoid or have discomfort with the card I suggest you send it into psa for opinion before questioning a sellers rep.
I'm not sure what you're thinking here? You'd better run, not walk, run to that bank and somehow stop payment on that cashier's check, if that can be done. You're taking this guy's word for it that he's gonna send you the check back? I think you'll be lucky, very lucky if you won't be adding a #5 to your list about an "important lesson" learned.
<< <i><<< he agreed to return my check >>>
I'm not sure what you're thinking here? You'd better run, not walk, run to that bank and somehow stop payment on that cashier's check, if that can be done. You're taking this guy's word for it that he's gonna send you the check back? I think you'll be lucky, very lucky if you won't be adding a #5 to your list about an "important lesson" learned. >>
Forgot to add that I already have the check and the $ back in my account. Kind of a major point to omit.
Looks related to those from the Craig's List scamsters.
(They are operating in California, Texas and the Carolinas.)
The often use Hispanic names.
Meaning ... Cant you still see the PSA in the bottom right hand corner?
Can someone enlighten me ...if they know what I am trying to say?
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
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<< <i>Card looks legit imo the top has been knocked around but the seal below the flip has not been intruded. If your going to pull a quicky itd be from the
bottom or side. Also appears to be graded long time ago (pre 98) with the small font.
Again just my opinion but looks aok.
If your really paranoid or have discomfort with the card I suggest you send it into psa for opinion before questioning a sellers rep. >>
Actually, to me the easiest thing was to return the card. I had a doubt, so I returned the card and got my $ back. As I stated earlier, I don't know if the seller played any role in this at all. Perhaps he didn't. This is why I specifically didn't mention his name or ebay seller id.
<< <i><<< he agreed to return my check >>>
I'm not sure what you're thinking here? You'd better run, not walk, run to that bank and somehow stop payment on that cashier's check, if that can be done. You're taking this guy's word for it that he's gonna send you the check back? I think you'll be lucky, very lucky if you won't be adding a #5 to your list about an "important lesson" learned. >>
In fact, I specifically waited until the $ went back into my account before posting the pics.
flip looks fishy to me IMHO
edited to add i posted this without reading anyones responses to OP
<< <i>please dont tell me this card was listed on CRAIGLIST...
flip looks fishy to me IMHO >>
Was not on CL (at least not that I ever saw). It will be interesting to see if it shows up on eBay. By the way, he also had a '51 Bowman Mantle PSA 8 and a '33 Goudey Ruth PSA 6 he was trying to sell to losing bidders on his eBay auctions. Have no idea if the others are fake.
I'm just glad to have my money back and be done with this guy.
///////////////////////////////////
Those are mainstay cards in the Craig's List scam.
Steve
<< <i>"...By the way, he also had a '51 Bowman Mantle PSA 8 and a '33 Goudey Ruth PSA 6 he was trying to sell...."
///////////////////////////////////
Those are mainstay cards in the Craig's List scam. >>
Can you please enlighten me on the Craig's List scam? Like I said, I didn't find this card through CraigsList, but it sounds like a lot of similar looking cards are showing up on CL. However, CL is normally local pickup, and if you knew your cards, you could spot it when you picked it up and spent a few minutes looking at it. But, again, I don't know the particulars of this scam.
<< <i>Does the font on the flip look odd to anyone else?? >>
The NM 7 is all on one line, whereas every flip I have ever seen appears like this NM
7
SERIAL NUMBER AT THE BOTTOM RIGHT
The FLIP is very FAKE IMHO!
EARL
//////////////////
PM sent.
<< <i>
<< <i>Does the font on the flip look odd to anyone else?? >>
The NM 7 is all on one line, whereas every flip I have ever seen appears like this NM
7
SERIAL NUMBER AT THE BOTTOM RIGHT
The FLIP is very FAKE IMHO!
EARL >>
Not correct Earl. When PSA went to the half-point grading system, they changed the layout of the flip. Far more exist with everything on one line. What I meant was the font was incorrect.
<< <i>When did PSA change the condition/ number to two separate lines? >>
I believe they switched in January 2008.
Steve
Steve
<< <i>How did the guy know to contact you?
Steve >>
Steve-
Because I had bid on one of his auctions (and lost). He then used the ebay email system to contact me (a violation of eBay policy obviously).
Why do I even bother with this site?
Why do you?
Your BS attitude about the collectors on this Site who have tried to impart information to you makes me just sick to hear your attitude. You know what, why don't you stick it and go away.
I have had the great people on this site help me dozens of times. Why don't you just go away. !!!! Evedently you don't care or want to be enlightened.
So whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Neil
<< <i>You know I think the Title say's it all:
Why do I even bother with this site?
Why do you?
Your BS attitude about the collectors on this Site who have tried to impart information to you makes me just sick to hear your attitude. You know what, why don't you stick it and go away.
I have had the great people on this site help me dozens of times. Why don't you just go away. !!!! Evedently you don't care or want to be enlightened.
So whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Neil >>
You obviously didn't read the post or failed to grasp anything I was saying. The whole point of the post was how grateful I was for the information I learned from experts on this site in helping me avoid a bad decision.
<< <i>You know I think the Title say's it all:
Why do I even bother with this site?
Why do you?
Your BS attitude about the collectors on this Site who have tried to impart information to you makes me just sick to hear your attitude. You know what, why don't you stick it and go away.
I have had the great people on this site help me dozens of times. Why don't you just go away. !!!! Evedently you don't care or want to be enlightened.
So whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Neil >>
I'd say your own signature says it all. "Full of yourself" just might be the understatement of the year.
<< <i>
<< <i>You know I think the Title say's it all:
Why do I even bother with this site?
Why do you?
Your BS attitude about the collectors on this Site who have tried to impart information to you makes me just sick to hear your attitude. You know what, why don't you stick it and go away.
I have had the great people on this site help me dozens of times. Why don't you just go away. !!!! Evedently you don't care or want to be enlightened.
So whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Neil >>
You obviously didn't read the post or failed to grasp anything I was saying. The whole point of the post was how grateful I was for the information I learned from experts on this site in helping me avoid a bad decision. >>
Well then show your appreciation and PayPal each of us a fiver. Do you think we can't use the money?
<< <i>I am glad everything worked out for you in the end. >>
Thank you, MB. And again, I feel very thankful to have had some people in this forum share very useful and helpful information.
Ahhhh, screw it. I quit.