ms70 buffalo?? really? ngc come on!!!! or maybe Im just wrong??-just updated on friday the 20th of f

joebb21 · January 13, 2009 1:52AM

I purchased this buffalo (believe me not for 70 money(especially seince I wouldnt pay 69 vs 70) anyway- notice the rim nick on the right side around 2:40- its VERY noticable... does it still deserve a ms70 and if not why is it in the 70 holder? let me know what you think

Meltdown · January 13, 2009 1:54AM

That should rule out 70 & 69 in my opinion. It was probably a bulk submission and they just were flying them through with the percentages number that they have for 69's & 70's.

Manorcourtman · January 13, 2009 2:01AM

NGC 70. That's why they are discounted on the market. NGC 70's most likely are not 70's! Their modern grading leaves alot to be desired. That coin is not a 70 or a 69 imho.

Coinsponge · January 13, 2009 2:12AM

New grading system for modern coinage. Flip the coin. If it lands heads up it is a 70. If it lands tails up a 69. I think this one landed on its edge first.

57loaded · January 13, 2009 2:18AM

it passed the dental test for fineness, therefore the grade.

jmski52 · January 13, 2009 2:20AM

This thread needs to be archived for posterity. This thread won't do much for NGC resale market values on ebay. Now that you own the coin, Joe - NGC should have to make this right to you. I'd call them on it.

As far as I'm concerned, this affects all NGC graded coins. There is no excuse.

Coinsponge · January 13, 2009 2:28AM

I have noticed this all to often. I think there is a degree of cynicism in the TPG's for the modern "crap" and they just pass through stuff in a hurried manner for the bulk sellers. When I see ANACS holders on tv with the grade MS or PF 70 and a label that says #xx of #xxxxxx I just cringe with disgust.

silvergoldnut · January 13, 2009 2:36AM

<< This thread needs to be archived for posterity. This thread won't do much for NGC resale market values on ebay. Now that you own the coin, Joe - NGC should have to make this right to you. I'd call them on it.

As far as I'm concerned, this affects all NGC graded coins. There is no excuse. >>

i agree , i would call on this one , it might of happen when it was put in it's holder. i sent back a coin to ngc and they did make it right , with no questions asked.
coin was sideways in holder, hate that!!!!

adamlaneus · January 13, 2009 2:38AM

It's not modern grading standards.

The damage either happened while holdering, or it's moron grading standards. Either way, it seems that NGC should be contacted. That coin is not a "70".

OPA · January 13, 2009 2:42AM

<< NGC 70. That's why they are discounted on the market. NGC 70's most likely are not 70's! Their modern grading leaves alot to be desired. That coin is not a 70 or a 69 imho. >>

Should not come as a great surprise....Most NGC modern 70's would never pass muster with PCGS

FilthyBroke · January 13, 2009 2:45AM

Though I haven't seen the number of NGC holdered coins many here have, I've seen enough of them to expect this type of thing on a regular basis from them.

notwilight · January 13, 2009 2:45AM

Agree with above responses. however, some dealers continue to sell NGC 70s for way too much, especially early before it becomes clear that NGC is grading 2/3s of the coins 70. Silver eagles seems to be an exception as that is an NGC niche. However, the 2008 proof plats are sells at a significant premium to raw coins--I'd rather have fresh raw coins. --jerry

RYK · January 13, 2009 2:46AM

To the relatively uninformed, is there any spillover effect to PCGS for NGC's relatively lower grading standards for 70's? That is, do obviously imperfect 70's at NGC cause the masses to disbelieve the 70's that are awarded by PCGS?

nycounsel · January 13, 2009 2:48AM

in fairness, I've received PCGS MS70 coins in the past that didn't deserve the grade.

And while modern-bashing is all the rage, grading service errors aren't limited to moderns. That's why we say buy the coin, not the holder.

smet · January 13, 2009 2:52AM

I don't even think that is a 69.

jmski52 · January 13, 2009 2:56AM

do obviously imperfect 70's at NGC cause the masses to disbelieve the 70's that are awarded by PCGS?

Different companies, different procedures, different standards. Why would the masses juxtapose one company's grading onto the other?

These are 99.9% pure gold and soft. The ding probably happened at NGC after grading.

19Lyds · January 13, 2009 2:56AM

<< New grading system for modern coinage. Flip the coin. If it lands heads up it is a 70. If it lands tails up a 69. I think this one landed on its edge first. >>

Sounds good to me!

OPA · January 13, 2009 2:58AM

<< To the relatively uninformed, is there any spillover effect to PCGS for NGC's relatively lower grading standards for 70's? That is, do obviously imperfect 70's at NGC cause the masses to disbelieve the 70's that are awarded by PCGS? >>

Not that I can detect. PCGS modern 70's (Post 1990) as a rule, will normally sell for a substantial premium over NGC graded ones. That also holds true for the 69's.

2manycoins2fewfunds · January 13, 2009 3:18AM

I hate to tell you but if you look at the buffalo rims closely especially inside edge of rims you will find it is very difficult to find a PR or MS70 in the 1 oz. or 1/2 oz.

SpaceMonkey · January 13, 2009 3:23AM

maybe somebody dropped it before holdering it?

-sm

jmj3esq · January 13, 2009 3:28AM

That sucks. Give them a call, they should recognize their mistake and compensate you for the price difference. NGC stinks anyway. That is a good reason why I dont do business with them.

Treeman · January 13, 2009 3:58AM

"in fairness, I've received PCGS MS70 coins in the past that didn't deserve the grade.

And while modern-bashing is all the rage, grading service errors aren't limited to moderns. That's why we say buy the coin, not the holder. "

Always one guy who won't just drink the Kool-Aid! Listen pal, on this site, it is considered proper to bash NGC when a coin like this surfaces. If it's a bad PCGS coin, then you say "it turned in the holder", "of course there are a few mistakes, they grade so many coins", "must be a counterfeit holder", or some other excuse. Get with the program, there will be NO looking at actual coins, just remember that ALL PCGS coins are great, and ALL NGC coins suck! Oh yeah, when they cross to PCGS, at SAME or HIGHER grade, just pretend you don't notice!

Treeman · January 13, 2009 4:09AM

By the way, I agree that this coin is no 70. NGC should make it right, same as PCGS said they would make it right on the graffitti they missed on a coin....

OPA · January 13, 2009 5:03AM

<< Oh yeah, when they cross to PCGS, at SAME or HIGHER grade, just pretend you don't notice! >>

It's highly unlikely, that's ever going to happen, on NGC graded Moderns crossing on a HIGHER grade..... Classic .. yes

Treeman · January 13, 2009 6:31AM

"It's highly unlikely, that's ever going to happen, on NGC graded Moderns crossing on a HIGHER grade..... Classic .. yes "

I agree, and that statement eluded to classics. I was just making the point that, rather than looking at actual coins, the majority look for ways to attack NGC, and make excuses for PCGS. They are both good companies, and both make the occasional mistake. I just get tired of the Kool-Aid mentality sometimes...

derryb · January 13, 2009 7:15AM

If it was an ebay purchase, does the seller have a return policy? Let him deal with NGC (will involve postage costs).

pcgs69 · January 13, 2009 7:31AM

Is it possible it's a planchet defect?

YaHa · January 13, 2009 8:00AM

Damn you guys stop bashing NGC.

MY grading company would give it 69.4

joebb21 · January 13, 2009 11:00AM

I bought it on ebay awhile back (I paid $842 for it) I wasnt able to see the mark on it on ebay and when I got it I just thought to myself the coin anyway was worth over $860 in gold alone so I put it away- now i took it out again and Im laughing at this one. I think I will call ngc and see what happens

JrGMan2004 · January 13, 2009 11:15AM

<< 

<< Oh yeah, when they cross to PCGS, at SAME or HIGHER grade, just pretend you don't notice! >>

It's highly unlikely, that's ever going to happen, on NGC graded Moderns crossing on a HIGHER grade..... Classic .. yes >>

Actually, I know of a 2005 $50 Proof (a semi-key date amoung Proof Platinums) a couple years ago, that was a very nice 69, and graded a 69 two or three times at NGC. The owner (a collector) decided to send it to PCGS because he could get $100 or so more with it in a PCGS 69 holder and put the proceeds towards just buying one in a PF70 UC holder. Of course it was cracked out, but the coin came back from PCGS as a PR70 DCAM. How do you explain that?

And I believe Marty has a story or two about moderns that had been in NGC holders that came back higher at PCGS...

JrGMan2004 · January 13, 2009 11:16AM

<< "It's highly unlikely, that's ever going to happen, on NGC graded Moderns crossing on a HIGHER grade..... Classic .. yes "

I agree, and that statement eluded to classics. I was just making the point that, rather than looking at actual coins, the majority look for ways to attack NGC, and make excuses for PCGS. They are both good companies, and both make the occasional mistake. I just get tired of the Kool-Aid mentality sometimes... >>

GoldenEyeNumismatics · January 13, 2009 11:20AM

Is metal actually displaced or is it a strikethru?

FatMan · January 13, 2009 11:21AM

Send it to NGC. They will make good on it.

AUandAG · January 13, 2009 11:32AM

That is really simple to explain. It was graded and THEN was dropped when being encapsulated.

Major screw up by the folks that put it in the plastic. Hey, just holder it and send it on and hope
nobody notices.

bob

edited: didn't see your post spacemonkey, but you are correct first!

WoodenJefferson · January 13, 2009 11:34AM

You need to let NGC make good on this or let them explain before asking us to judge from pictures.

derryb · January 13, 2009 11:42AM

<< That is really simple to explain. It was graded and THEN was dropped when being encapsulated.

Major screw up by the folks that put it in the plastic. Hey, just holder it and send it on and hope
nobody notices.

bob

edited: didn't see your post spacemonkey, but you are correct first! >>

I do know that once slabbed, NGC sends the coins back through "quality control." Guess this one was running close to "out the door" deadline!

VamGuy · January 13, 2009 3:19PM

Just for itshs & giggles, send it to CAC for a green bean.

Bochiman · January 13, 2009 3:29PM

Rim nick - as minted

CarlWohlforth · January 13, 2009 3:54PM

It isn't a 70.

Even a non-perfect coin as minted isn't a 70.

I've purchased PCGS 70s that weren't close to perfect under my bare eye, no magnification at all. In every case when returned to PCGS I was made whole. I've sent lower grade coins to NGC for review and my opinion was disputed so I wasn't made whole. I'm not sure what NGC would do in this case but the coin should be presented to them and the results should be made public.

joebb21 · February 19, 2009 2:34PM

finally decided now to get in touch with ngc about my 70 buffalo-
I am very pleased with the response I got from them in an email
Basically i explained that I thought they made a mistake on the grade and asked them how I should proceed... here was their response.
---
"Thank you for your inquiry. If you believe that a coin has been
over-graded by NGC you can submit the coin to NGC through its
"Appearance Review" service for a review of the assigned grade. If the
grade is ultimately lower than that originally assigned to the coin, NGC
shall, at NGC's option, either exchange the coin in question with an
equivalent coin at the earlier higher grade or pay the difference
between the current fair market value of the coin at the newly
established grade and the current fair market value of the grade
originally assigned to such coin."
---

what do you think I should do? should I send it in? and if i do send it in what should I hope for?

Doogy · February 19, 2009 2:49PM

<< This thread needs to be archived for posterity. This thread won't do much for NGC resale market values on ebay. Now that you own the coin, Joe - NGC should have to make this right to you. I'd call them on it.

As far as I'm concerned, this affects all NGC graded coins. There is no excuse. >>

Your last line is laughable at best. This example no more affects all NGC graded coins anymore than the blatantly tooled PCGS $75,000 colonial half from Heritage last week speaks to all of PCGS's coins.

Some coins bring more in PCGS holders, while many others bring more in NGC. The difference is knowing which ones are a service's stong suit, and using it to your advantage.

Face it folks, modern coins are graded by rookie graders usally in bulk, not the high paid hotshots that handle the rarities that demand the large grading fees. I've personally owned at least a half dozen US and world coins that were MS/PF70 in PCGS holders that had blatant tick marks or damage like this one. Being that i don't pay a premium for them over 69, I really could care less. Would I want to send mine back to PCGS so they can sit in a stack for months, waiting for some kind of grade review? no. But for a coin like this one shown, the poster may want to send it back, that is if he paid a premium for the whole '70' thing.

ms70 buffalo?? really? ngc come on!!!! or maybe Im just wrong??-just updated on friday the 20th of f

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