How long did Fugio cents actually circulate?
291fifth
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Judging from the amount of wear seen on many surviving specimens they must have still been in use well after 1800. Has anyone read anything on this?
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VERY old thread but a question I'm interested in as well. It's been 10 years since this was asked. Has any new/concrete evidence come to light in the last decade?
Interesting !!!
What kind of question is that?
MIND YOUR BUSINESS
Based on the number of well worn surviving examples I'm guessing that Fugio cents circulated along side US large cents and then left circulation at the time that large cents left circulation. This started soon after the introduction of small cents with the remaining examples finally leaving circulation soon after the outbreak of the Civil War when hard money was widely hoarded. Of course, this is only an educated guess on my part.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
During this period, prior to 1857, most anything that was round and brown was probably able to circulate somewhere for a while. I don't know that it was that long however. Judging by the sharpness of most Hard Times Tokens, which often at least VF, a decade's use would seem to be about right. I think that if you had been searching rolls in that 1840s that you would not have run into very many Fugio Cents.
Many of the Fugio cents that survive today are well below VF and many are almost worn smooth. Also, in the 1840's how many serious coin collectors were there especially in the rural areas where most people lived? I can see some being set aside as curiosities but most circulated along side large cents. Until 1857, even foreign coins were still legal tender in the United States.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Through the years, a myth has woven its way though the story of US coins:
That the Fugios were the first coins of the (US) mint.
I knew many collectors when I first got started who considered the Fugio to be an economical Chain Cent.
We know that isn't true, but the amount of wear probably indicates that they were quite likely mixed with large cents in commerce for a LONG time.
For a long time in the early years there was a coin shortage in the US. The fact that foreign coins (especially Spanish, British and Portuguese coins) were legal tender until 1857 is proof of this situation. Anything round and metal that looked like a coin circulated out of necessity.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Making change in the 19th century must have been like "hot potato.".
I have often wondered how value was assigned to the circulating foreign coins. Was this just 'common knowledge'? Or was there a documented 'exchange rate' somewhere? I.E. - One Escudo = fifty cents, one shilling = twenty five cents. Cheers, RickO
Tellya what I'm gonna do....for YOU..
I can tell you want that bushel of rhubarb. SO....
Gimme a Shilling for it ....or...for one of them new quarters...I'll toss in a bar a soap.
If Fugios with their chain-like reverse were circulating in 1793, as we all agree that they were, why was there so much (alleged) dislike of the chain cent reverse?
Just like today, I imagine most people didn't care what was on their coins. They only cared that they could be spent.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
There were printed conversion charts, although more for silver than copper. These are themselves collectible as many of them were printed and distributed as advertising.
This is an interesting question. But the only real difference is that the fugio cents weren't being produced anymore. Any demand for a change in design (like the chain cents) wouldn't have applied to fugio cents.
I'd also point out that given the wear on many chain cents, they continued to circulate despite the dislike of the chains.
@jmlanzaf... Thank you, I have long wondered about that...just never researched it. It does make sense though... so many different coins were used at the time. Cheers, RickO
I've even sold a bronze advertising medal once (circa 1850) that had currency exchange rates on one side.
It is easier to find a higher graded Fugio than a well worn one due to the Bank of New York hoard of many thousands of Fugio cents.
In addition, it wouldn’t surprise me that the New Haven restrikes from around 1860 were struck because of how scarce Fugio’s were at the time. I can’t see how it would have been a fruitful venture if the genuine Fugio’s were easy to obtain.
Maybe people only complain about GOVERNMENT stuff.
Those restrikes are what has kept me from wanting a Fugio.
Genuine Fugio’s are pretty a pretty neat item to have. They are fairly affordable even in uncirculated condition. Just make sure it has an even strike with a minimum of striations.
I have never bought a restrike. To me it is just modern stuff made well after the fact. A bit like buying an 1804 dollar.
Why would the restrikes keep you from buying a real one? The restrikes are easily identifiable especially with the rings being too thin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have wondered about this also. Even with all the posts here and the opinions given-thanks, by the way- there seems to be little if any evidence, such as anecdotal or contemporaneous observations to base a decision on. Interesting that the thread has gotten so many more responses than when originally posted almost ten years ago. I am curious to know what your thoughts are in that respect also.
The very existence of restrikes just rubs me the wrong way. ???????
May be nuts, but that's how it is.
Now this wouldn't apply to 1804 dollars. maybe.
For those interested in checking old newspapers on this subject, what we call "Fugio cents" were commonly called "Franklin cents" in the 19th century due to the "Mind your business" quote.
Mint correspondence shows them popping up as late as 1877, but as curiosities, not circulating coins. As others have noted, Andrew Jackson's financial panic likely forced many of these into circulation from which they had largely vanished by the 1850s or earlier.
I metal detected an old fairgrounds that was in use from approximately 1880-1915. No use of the land before that. I found several large cents over the years. So in Eastern Iowa large cents we’re in circulation to some degree as late as 1880. Wish one them had been a Fugio!!
I wonder if any Fugios came into the Mint along with old large cents and half cents and they just got counted along with the large cents because they were not worth worrying about.
Considering that cents were involved and not gold or silver coins the answer is probably yes. The same is probably true for the state issues of the 1780s as well. The number of pieces involved was probably not high but unless documentation is found we will never know for sure. The fog of time has set in.
I'm sure it happened but imagine most were pulled from circulation as curiosities by both collectors and non-collectors alike before they made it to the melting pot. I remember reading in one of the coin magazines several decades ago an interview with a retired mint employee who melted US gold coins after the gold recall in 1933. He said he remembered seeing Panama Pacific $50 gold coins going into the melting pot.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I had not thought about the state issues. Because of the short weights on some of them, they might have been redeemed as half cents.
Large cents have also been found at the Little Big Horn site. The big coppers were around a lot longer than I would have guessed, given their cumbersome size. Possibly small cents may have been slow to find their way west in sufficient numbers. As a kid in the 50's and 60's, I was amazed at the cool older coins I pulled from circulation whenever I visited a rural part of the country.