Could ebay coin sellers actually make it in their own business (B&M)?
Bochiman
Posts: 25,625 ✭✭✭✭✭
Watching some of the threads of folks selling coins on ebay, I can understand why so many businesses, in the "real world" fail.
It seems that people don't know the market (customers as well as goods) and don't have the savvy to handle issues that come up.
I particularly like the ones that say "it is a binding contract!!!!". Both buyers/sellers are funny when they do that. In reality, imho, anyone selling someone and trying to FORCE the sale is telling me that they don't think they can get that same price again easily, or there is something wrong with it. It sure isn't someone I would recommend to buy from.
And, if there is a problem with the item when it arrives, it also tells me there will likely be issues trying to resolve any problem.
That, and if there is any return allowed in the auction, makes me wonder why people try to force others....
Most stores one walks into have some type of return policy. Imagine being in a B&M store and walking to the counter, taking the coin right in front of someone else looking at it, and then saying "no thanks, I actually have changed my mind"....think what would happen if the seller tried to force the sale at that point. I know I would be laughing at them in trying to force me saying "It is a binding contract" or anything else.
That said, there are actual business owners that sell on ebay and do well. They understand. They just aren't the ones to come here and say "Hey! I need you to l@@k at me! I am a bigtime ebay seller of 5-6 figures!!!". They are the ones that work calmly and well (Russ and ModernCoinMart come to mind). I seriuosly doubt either one has tried to force a sale. You also don't see them come on here to whine about every little problem customer (though, I do miss when Russ used to give some customer highlights of questions he would get
)
I think part of the ebay phenomenon is not just letting folks sell things they no longer need or use but also to let folks think they are business people when they really aren't.
It seems that people don't know the market (customers as well as goods) and don't have the savvy to handle issues that come up.
I particularly like the ones that say "it is a binding contract!!!!". Both buyers/sellers are funny when they do that. In reality, imho, anyone selling someone and trying to FORCE the sale is telling me that they don't think they can get that same price again easily, or there is something wrong with it. It sure isn't someone I would recommend to buy from.
And, if there is a problem with the item when it arrives, it also tells me there will likely be issues trying to resolve any problem.
That, and if there is any return allowed in the auction, makes me wonder why people try to force others....
Most stores one walks into have some type of return policy. Imagine being in a B&M store and walking to the counter, taking the coin right in front of someone else looking at it, and then saying "no thanks, I actually have changed my mind"....think what would happen if the seller tried to force the sale at that point. I know I would be laughing at them in trying to force me saying "It is a binding contract" or anything else.
That said, there are actual business owners that sell on ebay and do well. They understand. They just aren't the ones to come here and say "Hey! I need you to l@@k at me! I am a bigtime ebay seller of 5-6 figures!!!". They are the ones that work calmly and well (Russ and ModernCoinMart come to mind). I seriuosly doubt either one has tried to force a sale. You also don't see them come on here to whine about every little problem customer (though, I do miss when Russ used to give some customer highlights of questions he would get
)I think part of the ebay phenomenon is not just letting folks sell things they no longer need or use but also to let folks think they are business people when they really aren't.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
0
Comments
Even though I believed him, I don't think this is possible anymore. Also, I don't think he really knew anything about the coins he was selling. All he know was a place (eBay) to buy a commodity (slab coins) and resale that commodity at a 10% or whatever profit. Didn't know the coins, and I am sure this business plan doesn't work anymore.
--Jerry
Something like this.................A little over simplified but you'll get the picture.
With B&M maybe 100-1,000 customers to look at your inventory per week. $1,000-$10,000 per week overhead
Coin shows where 1,000-10,000 saw your inventory. $100-$1,000 per week overhead
Ebay where 10,000-100,000 saw your inventory. $10-$100 per week overhead.
PS I think the way you've binned it ebay fees would be overhead. I just logged in this morning to see that paypal had automaticly paid ebay $1700. Fees seem to go up monthly.
PPS I don't know where you're getting your pageview stats on ebay. Perhaps thousands had a chance to view your item but most close with less than 100 visits.
Absolutely!
There are FAR more COST operating a real shop than the mere word “overhead” implies like insurance for people, not the inventory, workers compensation if you have other employees, training, attending shows to buy coins i.e., Travel cost. You can go on and on with accountants, taxes, etc.
Writing up wind bag statements and legal BS your cousin who dropped out of law school told you to say does not come close to making you a business person. The only Business going on at Ebay IS Ebay
WS
I buy more than sell on EBay; pay within five minutes of auction close; and am very patient for delivery. I understand how seller ratings affect their bottom line so I don't arbitrarily nuke. I will contact the seller first to work things out and 99% of the time they are great to work with. If a bad apple rises to the top of the barrel though, I don't hesitate to let the community know (I did this before feedback rules changed and always suffered retaliation -- no big deal for a buyer though). If more buyers and sellers employed these techniques, EBay and their ilk would be much nicer places to transact business. Of course I'm smokin' dope here ... ain't going to happen. Things will get worse as time progresses, but thanks for the opportunity to fantasize.
<< <i>The eBay phenomenon has created it's own reality with unrealistic expectations as often expressed here on the fourm. Buyers want their coins shipped yesterday. Sellers want to be paid yesterday and instead of the old fashioned "I'll send payment Friday when I get paid." and "OK, that would be great." we get angry e-mails calling each other jerks. Those who do business like that on ebay (many posters here) couldn't make it in a B&M.
--Jerry >>
Thats eBay Jerry, where a delayed payment is accep[table (non-PayPal) along with a certain acceptable delay in shipping time! In other words, from auction win to coin possession can take as much as 5 days to two weeks solely depending upon payment type. (PayPal vs Money Order vs US Postal Money Order vs Personal Check)
For a B&M, if they will accept my check, I get my coin on that day and I would never expect a dealer to say, "I'll have to wait 7 to 10 days to insure your check clears before giving you the coin." It just doesn't happen but is readily acceptable on eBay!
I suppose the reasoning is that the dealer can see me and can verify my address (within acceptable reason) and feel that there is some form of recompense should the check bounce but the whole point is that the transaction at the B & M is consumated within minutes whereas eBay takes days.
Given that a B & M Shop is a totally "different" venue than ebay where everything is electronic, I don't really think comparing the two is fair. Sure, some sellers are looked upon like they are dealers but they are no more a coin dealer than I am. A good portion of them have "real" jobs and their coin "business" is nothing more than a method to purchase coins for their collections.
So, "Could ebay coin sellers actually make it in their own business (B&M)?"
I'd have to say no since the one venue (eBay) can be set up in miuntes at 0 cost while the other venue (the B & M) requires a substantial cash (or line of credit) outlay which most eBay sellers do not have. Those eBay sellers are simply getting experience in coin sales and can leave at any minute with cirtually no skin off their backs. A B & M Shop it totally different.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>The ebay overhead isn't as low as most buyers think and I'm an especially frugal and inventive seller. If there is a way to cut costs, I find it. --jerry >>
I wish I could run a B & M Shop for $500 a month which is what a top eBay store costs. Of course, this is excluding listing and FVF but as a B & M Shop, I would have to pay for a merchat credit card service to handle those transaction which comes to about the 3% the PayPal charges.
eBay is incredibly cheap compared to a real Coin Shop.
The name is LEE!
The difference is that when a the customer "buys" the coin on Ebay, and then changes his mind and doesn't pay, the seller is out the final value fees. If the customer gets the coin in hand and it isn't as it was represented, that's another story. And you're right, the "binding contract" stuff is b.s. in that case, and the seller should honor his return policy.
<< <i>
<< <i> eBay is incredibly cheap compared to a real Coin Shop. >>
But what you get is not comparable. Ebay store is of questionable value with the new lower listing fees and the fact that store items show up at the very bottom of all searches. --Jerry
<< <i>Watching some of the threads of folks selling coins on ebay,
I particularly like the ones that say "it is a binding contract!!!!". Both buyers/sellers are funny when they do that. In reality, imho, anyone selling someone and trying to FORCE the sale is telling me that they don't think they can get that same price again easily, or there is something wrong with it. It sure isn't someone I would recommend to buy from.
That, and if there is any return allowed in the auction, makes me wonder why people try to force others....
I think part of the ebay phenomenon is not just letting folks sell things they no longer need or use but also to let folks think they are business people when they really aren't. >>
Why don't you tell us your real honest opinion.
Where would most people sell their coins if there wasn't ebay? Ok as I do understand your point and most of the time you have a retorical way about youself Boch, the real issue is most people don't see things the way you do.
Maybe you are the 5% of people that will have their taxes raised in the next adminstration. But most people aren't in that catagory.
Ebay is a place to sell "ITEMS" and if you really think about it Mrs. Homemaker or Harry Homeowner does Ebay selling as a hobby as coin collecting and buying/selling is also.
JMHO and hope some can see what ebay has done for Coin selling and other items. The reason it's a so called BINDING CONTRACT aspect Boch, how many people really know this before they press enter on their keyboard to purchase that item.
Ebay is letting you/us/all as a seller be a "SUBCONTRACTOR" and as being that why should I risk my item to some person that wants to play street ball and twist the rules the way they see fit to do so. I have a 7 day return policy on my auctions and yes my shipping includes insurance but I have had some people that have emailed and asked to return because they changed their mind. Some reasons were the coin isn't nice as they thought it was, they thought the grade was not right. Funny thing though a few buyers I checked their buying at a later time and saw they got the same coin from someone else for a few dollars less and my time and effort was for not.
So as a Harry Homeowner does I see their point and putting "BINDING CONTRACT" on their auction is just a stern reminder to think before you buy.
TO DUMP CRAP OR SELL INFERIOR COINS. That's nonsense to me.
I'm just saying no one is wrong as a seller they are again a "SUBCONTRACTOR"and it's a business transaction by contract that it in a nutshell.
They also pay premiums for raw coins that are dolled up to look PQ or "better than they actually are."
People who are affected by these "tuff-times" who just inherited somebody's collection and do not know
squat about coins will gladly exchange a bunch of old stuff for a few real world hundred dollars! But ....
Get on ebay and everybody expects cherries for nuttin'... certified coins for less than the expense of certification-
and they want it like Yesterday!
I love cherrypickin' but hate seeing innocent people getting fleeced!
<< <i>It's far easier to be moron anonymously. >>
Say it ain't so!
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>certified coins for less than the expense of certification >>
A lot of certified coins sell for less than the slabbing costs because, wait for it, here it comes, a startling revelation!
That's all they're worth.
Russ, NCNE
It is therefore incumbent upon the submitter
to know WHAT is worthwhile submitting!
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>think part of the ebay phenomenon is not just letting folks sell things they no longer need or use but also to let folks think they are business people when they really aren't.
Absolutely!
There are FAR more COST operating a real shop than the mere word “overhead” implies like insurance for people, not the inventory, workers compensation if you have other employees, training, attending shows to buy coins i.e., Travel cost. You can go on and on with accountants, taxes, etc.
Writing up wind bag statements and legal BS your cousin who dropped out of law school told you to say does not come close to making you a business person. The only Business going on at Ebay IS Ebay
WS >>
But lets not forget that a B&M has access to many items at HEAVY discounts via their walk-ins. The profit margins for an ebay only seller have to be considerably lower than that of a B&M seller!
<< <i>
<< <i>certified coins for less than the expense of certification >>
A lot of certified coins sell for less than the slabbing costs because, wait for it, here it comes, a startling revelation!
That's all they're worth.
Russ, NCNE >>
<< <i>Hey, how was China? >>
Nice...did the Great Wall....no coins to be seen
Did see a sign to their Numismatic Library, I think it was, just across from Tinnamen (sic?) Square, though.
Lot of meetings, foot massages, and walking around....no coins to be seen
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment