Reporting profits on sale of coins
lathmach
Posts: 4,720 ✭
Sales of Pre-1933 U.S. rare coins are non-reportable. However, the sale of modern bullion in amounts exceeding 25 ounces requires dealers to file a 1099-B with the I.R.S. reporting your profits at the time of the sale.
This is from this website.
According to the article, profits on coins older than 1933 are unreportable to the IRS.
Can a CPA here confirm this?
Ray
This is from this website.
According to the article, profits on coins older than 1933 are unreportable to the IRS.
Can a CPA here confirm this?
Ray
0
Comments
Gold bars: any combination 32.15 ounces or more
South African Krugerrands: 25 ounces or more
Canadian Maple Leafs: 25 ounces or more
Mexican Onzas: 25 ounces or more
Silver bars: 1,000 ounces or more
Pre-1965 US 90-percent silver coins: 1000 dollar face value or more
Platinum bars: 25 ounces or more
The reports are for the gross amounts when you SELL to a dealer, the IRS has no idea what your "profit" is.
There are no reports when you BUY these items.
Brings up an interesting point...
When is it that eBay will start reporting your sales to the IRS?
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
I got a 1099-B come tax time.
It appears though, that a person selling a collection of say, Bust Half Dollars to a dealer, would not get a 1099-B from the dealer, if the FACE value were less than $1000.
Right?
Ray
<< <i>I sold a little over $2000 face value junk silver about 5 years or so ago to Liberty Coins in Lansing Mich.
I got a 1099-B come tax time.
It appears though, that a person selling a collection of say, Bust Half Dollars to a dealer, would not get a 1099-B from the dealer, if the FACE value were less than $1000.
Right?
Ray >>
Let's just say a lot of $999.90 bags of 90% silver coins are sold.
What profit...
<< <i>Profit....
What profit...
If you sell for cash, is there really ever any profit?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Sales of Pre-1933 U.S. rare coins are non-reportable. However, the sale of modern bullion in amounts exceeding 25 ounces requires dealers to file a 1099-B with the I.R.S. reporting your profits at the time of the sale.
This is from this website.
According to the article, profits on coins older than 1933 are unreportable to the IRS.
Can a CPA here confirm this?
Ray >>
There are two classifications of reporting. One classification is mandatory by federal guidelines on bullion related items by the buyer as a 1099, and the other classification is obligatory by the seller if a PROFIT is made on the sale. PROFITS on any numismatic transaction are obligated to be reported by the seller to the IRS on your federal tax return either as a Schedule C or Schedule D filing.
In addition, as classified under the Patriot Act, certain cash, cash related or cash equivalent(bullion) transactions are reported by the buyer as a 8033 filing for cumulative or agregrate amounts over $10k in any calender year.
TRUTH
one is a dealer , hobby collector , investor , state pension fund , etc . Bullion and collector coins have
different rules . A coin dealer uses different IRS forms than a collector , who may have the same profit
and reports capital gains onschedule D , as opposed to a dealer ,who fills out a schedule C .
Then there are state 1040's ,and sales tax , and etc ,and well ,you get the picture .
To answer Utah Coin , Ebay may or may not have to report sales to the IRS . There will most likely
be an assesed flat fee on sellers , which will somehow be distributed to taxing municipalities .
In some other post weeks or months ago , someone metioned that sellers may have to be aware
that paypal has an extensive database . The following paragraph is taken from someone I know , who
knows someone who knows an accountant , who received an IRS form 4564 , about a client .
The form is titled 'Information Document Request' Below is the verbiage of one of the requests .
"'Please provide an excel spreadsheet from Paypal which shows all activities for the entire year .
The activities should include, but is not limited to payments deposited into the paypal account.
The names and email addresses of all the customers that paypal received payments from, and
the transaction number associated with each payment ."
Besides all that , the Chicago Bears lost a heartbreaker , and my wife breathed a small
sigh of relief with today's 900 plus point recovery .
PS 4 weeks to coinfest !
<< <i>The question has not been answered. What happens when a collector auctions off coins he has held for forty years. Obviously, they will sell today for more than this collector paid for them forty years ago. Does the auction house report these sales to the IRS, and if so, is there a minimum sales amount that requires IRS notification? I always wonder about all the publicity when a big collection is auctioned off. >>
The answer is no. The auction house will not report a sale from a consigner since the auction house does not own the coins, but acts as an intermediary. However, I do know of a case where a collector turned dealer sold his collection for over a million dollars through auction. Since the sale income was unusually high that year for this person, he was audited by the IRS.
TRUTH
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>What if you lost $$$ on a sale(s)? Is this a deduction then? >>
My understanding is the answer is no; it can only be used to offset profits you made on other coins. If the net result from all of your sales for a calendar year was a loss, then you can't claim it as a deduction.
Whatever you do, you'd better keep good records. No records means no cost basis on the items you sold.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
99% of Longacre's job involves creating transactions which result in the deferral of income, thereby not generating a current tax liability, but that's on the corporate tax and international tax side, not for individuals.
BTW-- a little "sweetener" that no one noticed (and no media reported on) as part of the $700 billion bailout, was an extension of a corporate/international tax deferral regime called the "active financing exception". Longacre makes use of this exception to tax on a regular basis and structures transactions to take advantage of it. The mainstream press does not understand it, and it is much easier to report on excessive executive compensation (which people can relate to) than this perk for corporations. The cost to us taxpayers of this corporate benefit is in the tens of billions of dollars.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
I disagree. Us taxpayers pay only our fair share. The government spends more than they take in. That is not the fault of business. We pay politicians a hefty salary long after they leave the Senate and Congress. Ask any of them ! Why, I'll bet it's in the billions by now !
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
"BTW-- a little "sweetener" that no one noticed (and no media reported on) as part of the $700 billion bailout, was an extension of a corporate/international tax deferral regime called the "active financing exception". Text".
Can you explain?
That depends on whether you treat the coin collecting as a hobby or as an investment. My view is that if you put enough money into it, it is an investment. If a hobby, then no, the loss on sale is not deductible, although if in the same year you have a loss, you have gains from sale of coins also, then you can offset the loss (or losses) to the extent of the gain. With an investment, if you lose money on the sale of a coin, then you have a capital loss. Here again, you can offset the loss against gains on sales of coins recognized in the same year, or for that matter, gains on sales of stocks, bonds, other collectibles (all considered capital assets.) in that year.If you have a loss from sale of coins treated as investment and no gain to offset them against, then you can use up $3,000 of the loss against other income of the same year and carry forward the remaining unused loss to future years, with no limit until death.
Julian
When a private individual sells a coin it is considered a 'capital gain'.
The benchmark amount is $1000.00.
If the coin sells for under $1000 (anywhere between $0.01 to $1000.00) then the 'cost' of the item is assumed to be $1000. Hence, there is no 'profit' and therefore no 'capital gains tax' has to be paid.
It changes when the item sells for more than $1,000.00.
Over $1000.00, the cost (if not shown otherwise through a receipt of some sort) is assumed to be only $1000.00 and the profit is the sale price minus $1000 and this amount must be reported as a 'capital gain' and tax must be paid on this.
ex. let's say I sell a coin for $3000 and I have no receipt (or from a thirty year old collection) then the tax I have to pay is based on the $2000 capital gain amount.
These tax rules also apply to any other asset I sell, such as art, furniture, etc...
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>Longacre:
"BTW-- a little "sweetener" that no one noticed (and no media reported on) as part of the $700 billion bailout, was an extension of a corporate/international tax deferral regime called the "active financing exception". Text".
Can you explain? >>
Not to bore the boards, but to the extent a corporation generates passive income (such as interest, dividends, etc.) off-shore, the US taxes that income currently. Now, you ask, why does the US goverment have jurisdiction to tax income generated in a non-US jurisdiction? It is because the Congress created a fictional transaction that occurs whereby this passive income is treated as a deemed dividend to the US, and therefore enters the US taxing jurisdiction (even though no cash moved back to the US; it is still off-shore). The US then has jurisdiction to tax that income. The active financing exception states that if you jump through certain hoops, big corporations are exempt from this tax fiction/deemed dividend, and the interest income, etc. that is generated stays off-shore tax free. Aren't you glad you asked?
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
I commend you on your knowledge, but I don't think anyone (a) got it or (b) was interested in offshore taxation.
By the way, when do you ever have time to work?
Julian
The best thing I can do to our Internal Revenue System is to snow them under with paperwork of their own creation.