WARNING for PAYPAL users!!!! ***UPDATE***
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
I just had a ACH funds reversal on a payment I received back in July. The buyer paid me via paypal on July 13th. I sent the coin next day. He left me glowing feedback on the 18th of July. Just reversed the charge on me today. Now im out $113.50 that I somehow owe to paypal. Its enough to make me want to puke. SAVE YOUR DEL CONFIRMATION NUMBERS FOREVER folks!!!!!!
Edited to add: The member is no longer a registered user.
Edited to add: The member is no longer a registered user.
0
Comments
Cameron Kiefer
<< <i>You dont have to save them forever. There is a deadline for reversal of fees. 45 days for international and 65 I believe for US.
Cameron Kiefer >>
Incorrect. The paypal rep had no idea how long the time was, but her supervisor said that a customer's bank had up to 180 days to reverse any charge.
1-Dammit Boy Oct 14,2003
International Coins
"A work in progress"
Wayne
eBay registered name:
Hard_ Search (buyer/bidder, a small time seller)
e-mail: wayne.whatley@gmail.com
<< <i>This is most likely a dumb question but why leave money in your paypal account that long, or any longer than it takes to withdraw it? >>
I dont...but I now have a negative $113.50 balance.
Step 1 - Identify issue
Most disputes are the result of simple misunderstandings. It’s best to initiate communication with the seller as soon as you recognize a potential problem.
You can open a dispute in the Resolution Center within 45 calendar days of payment. By opening a dispute, you are able to communicate directly with your seller to work out a problem transaction.
If you and your seller are unable to agree on a solution, you must escalate the dispute to a PayPal claim within 20 calendar days of the date the dispute was opened. By escalating to a claim, you would be asking PayPal to review the case and decide the outcome
For a chargeback it does not have a timeline.
Cameron Kiefer
That does sound totally unfair.
In fact, it sounds totally unethical as well as potentially illegal.
Nice way to start the day. Yet another company ripping off the public with apparent impunity. Technically, it's this buyer who ripped you off, but legally I would say that PayPal is complicit.
It is amazing to me that their databases, which surely contain that delivery confirmation number, are not being utilized. This is fraud and they are a party to it.
Angerangeranger.
It sounds to me like there is only once choice in the face of such fraud and it is ugly. Permanent cancellation of eBay/PayPal accounts, leaving them with that debt.
It will take a long time to earn back $100 in profit. And whos to say that this won't happen again?
<< <i>
<< <i>This is most likely a dumb question but why leave money in your paypal account that long, or any longer than it takes to withdraw it? >>
I dont...but I now have a negative $113.50 balance. >>
I think I understand now. Forgive me for the question. I am not a seller but pay for everything with Paypal.
1-Dammit Boy Oct 14,2003
International Coins
"A work in progress"
Wayne
eBay registered name:
Hard_ Search (buyer/bidder, a small time seller)
e-mail: wayne.whatley@gmail.com
Oh, now I see the person is no longer a registered user. Nevermind....
All this nonsense is starting to scare me away from Ebay/PayPal as a seller.
I think it is time for me to use the BST more...
<< <i>It is amazing to me that their databases, which surely contain that delivery confirmation number, are not being utilized >>
Only if you print postage through paypal. If you walk up to the postal counter at your PO paypal would have no clue what the number is.
Cameron Kiefer
Geko that SUXS!!! I have stopped selling items that cost more than a few hundred dollars each on ebay for this very reason. This country is full of people looking to rip some one off. I would think this is now theft of goods and maybe a call to the police deptment of the guys hometown is in order. I had a police deptment in Florida convince a person to make payment on a coin.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>Maybe time to slap a good lawsuit on PayPal & give them a Reality Check!
Yeah that will make them drop to their knees!
Cameron Kiefer
<< <i>This is 75 days after the original transaction?!?
That does sound totally unfair.
In fact, it sounds totally unethical as well as potentially illegal.
Nice way to start the day. Yet another company ripping off the public with apparent impunity. Technically, it's this buyer who ripped you off, but legally I would say that PayPal is complicit.
It is amazing to me that their databases, which surely contain that delivery confirmation number, are not being utilized. This is fraud and they are a party to it.
Angerangeranger. >>
I dont print shipping labels with paypal. I simply handwrite my own. Then I save the insurance/del confirm slips until the buyer leaves me positive feedback indicating he/she received the item and is happy with it. I then discard the old slips periodically. Paypal therefore does not have this confirmation number in their database. I learned a tough lesson today.
Despite being NARU we can watch for this ass in future IDs.
Please someone - open up a competitor to ebay.
Sorry to hear about this, Gecko.
I knew it would happen.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120280638231
For me perrsonally it p*zzes my OFF.
Not being in the US the only reasonable way I can pay (assuming I can find a seller that will even let me bid) is via Paypal.
Stunts like this buyer pulled just hurt my chances even more.
1-Dammit Boy Oct 14,2003
International Coins
"A work in progress"
Wayne
eBay registered name:
Hard_ Search (buyer/bidder, a small time seller)
e-mail: wayne.whatley@gmail.com
I wonder if this user also did the same thing to all of the other sellers.
PayPal is being inertial here. They do not act quickly on anything that is an expense to them. Essentially, they do not act ethically.
I hope you pursue and correct this; I truly do!!!
That sucks Phil, I had a few small items way back when that claimed non-reciept, thats when I switched to paypal shipping.
Other than the costs of the labels, it's no more expensive, and you get a discount on delivery confirmation.
I have had no problems since.
<< <i>
<< <i>This is 75 days after the original transaction?!?
That does sound totally unfair.
In fact, it sounds totally unethical as well as potentially illegal.
Nice way to start the day. Yet another company ripping off the public with apparent impunity. Technically, it's this buyer who ripped you off, but legally I would say that PayPal is complicit.
It is amazing to me that their databases, which surely contain that delivery confirmation number, are not being utilized. This is fraud and they are a party to it.
Angerangeranger. >>
I dont print shipping labels with paypal. I simply handwrite my own. Then I save the insurance/del confirm slips until the buyer leaves me positive feedback indicating he/she received the item and is happy with it. I then discard the old slips periodically. Paypal therefore does not have this confirmation number in their database. I learned a tough lesson today.
This really sucks gecko!
And it makes me glad that I not only collect coins but all my eBay sales information. I have everything back to 2005. I started using the PayPal postage printing thing a long time ago for the pure convenience and suggest that others do so as well.
The name is LEE!
I did have an impatient buyer file a dispute after a week while the coin was in transit. They took the money immeiately and didn't respond to my giving them the delivery confirmation. Finally a month later they gave the money back. If you can convince them it was delivered, you still will have to wait a month.
--Jerry
<< <i>As a businessman, i have to keep my postage receipts for taxes. But I ship everything by paypal electronic shipping anyway and delivery confirmation is only $.18 there. So I have it electronicly forever. Just as a data point, I have shipped almost 3000 packages in the past 2 years, most paid with paypal, and have never had a chargeback. This is a low probability event.
I did have an impatient buyer file a dispute after a week while the coin was in transit. They took the money immeiately and didn't respond to my giving them the delivery confirmation. Finally a month later they gave the money back. If you can convince them it was delivered, you still will have to wait a month.
--Jerry >>
Shouldnt the fact that the buyer left me a positive feedback for the item be enough "evidence" that I made good on my end?
<< <i>
<< <i>As a businessman, i have to keep my postage receipts for taxes. But I ship everything by paypal electronic shipping anyway and delivery confirmation is only $.18 there. So I have it electronicly forever. Just as a data point, I have shipped almost 3000 packages in the past 2 years, most paid with paypal, and have never had a chargeback. This is a low probability event.
I did have an impatient buyer file a dispute after a week while the coin was in transit. They took the money immeiately and didn't respond to my giving them the delivery confirmation. Finally a month later they gave the money back. If you can convince them it was delivered, you still will have to wait a month.
--Jerry >>
Shouldnt the fact that the buyer left me a positive feedback for the item be enough "evidence" that I made good on my end? >>
logical answer: yes
paypal ansere: let us know.
<< <i>
<< <i>As a businessman, i have to keep my postage receipts for taxes. But I ship everything by paypal electronic shipping anyway and delivery confirmation is only $.18 there. So I have it electronicly forever. Just as a data point, I have shipped almost 3000 packages in the past 2 years, most paid with paypal, and have never had a chargeback. This is a low probability event.
I did have an impatient buyer file a dispute after a week while the coin was in transit. They took the money immeiately and didn't respond to my giving them the delivery confirmation. Finally a month later they gave the money back. If you can convince them it was delivered, you still will have to wait a month.
--Jerry >>
Shouldnt the fact that the buyer left me a positive feedback for the item be enough "evidence" that I made good on my end? >>
Yes, it should be fairly strong evidence. Not the best. But certainly convincing!
You should also ask about the disposition of the other transactions of this user. Has this user charged back other folks or are you the only one?
This user may be crafty; realizing that you did not use the PayPal delivery confirmation mailing system and understanding that your transaction was 'softer' than the others for his/her fraudulent purposes.
Ray
<< <i>I will never accept payment by Paypal. This sort of thing happens all the time.
Ray >>
Guess I can understand that Ray, but a real disappoitment to me so many sellers have to go this way.
1-Dammit Boy Oct 14,2003
International Coins
"A work in progress"
Wayne
eBay registered name:
Hard_ Search (buyer/bidder, a small time seller)
e-mail: wayne.whatley@gmail.com
<< <i>Like Gecko, I have never used the "Print shipping" button via Paypal. My question is, do I need to get a sheet of labels to print the shipping on or does the address and shipping just print on regular paper and then I would affix the labels myself using tape? >>
I was wondering the same thing-
sorry to hear about it....
<< <i>I will never accept payment by Paypal. This sort of thing happens all the time.
Ray >>
No, it happens very seldomly. I worry more about fake checks and MOs. --Jerry
<< <i>Like Gecko, I have never used the "Print shipping" button via Paypal. My question is, do I need to get a sheet of labels to print the shipping on or does the address and shipping just print on regular paper and then I would affix the labels myself using tape? >>
I have a label printer that makes peel and stick labels that are very handy. If you don't do enough shipping to justify that you can print them on plain paper. When I did that I used a glue stick on the reverse and then covered the label with clear tape to protect from the environment. Both ways you get a barcode that helps the USPS make accurate delivery. I like it. --Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>I will never accept payment by Paypal. This sort of thing happens all the time.
Ray >>
No, it happens very seldomly. I worry more about fake checks and MOs. --Jerry >>
Of which, some are very, very good and even include "micro" printing which is supposed to deter counterfeiters.
The name is LEE!
I want to add - try to get in touch with those others he bought from. I'd be willing to bet the money you're out that he scammed them also. This info provided to the police will turn the tide in your direction as far as who they'll believe.
<< <i>
<< <i>Like Gecko, I have never used the "Print shipping" button via Paypal. My question is, do I need to get a sheet of labels to print the shipping on or does the address and shipping just print on regular paper and then I would affix the labels myself using tape? >>
I have a label printer that makes peel and stick labels that are very handy. If you don't do enough shipping to justify that you can print them on plain paper. When I did that I used a glue stick on the reverse and then covered the label with clear tape to protect from the environment. Both ways you get a barcode that helps the USPS make accurate delivery. I like it. --Jerry >>
Thanks Jerry-
-Al.
However, IF this the way you have been shipping all along,
my friend YOU ARE VERY FORTUNATE INDEED!
Use PayPal shipping and put them to work FOR YOU!
Yes, D'oh .... you may use a standard printer with what amounts
to just regular typing paper BUT you DO NEED the clear, very
durable, transparent shipping tape to cover the entire label -
which, of course, you cut to size before placing on the mailer!
Phil, I'll send you a PM. Sorry to hear this!!
///////////////////////
////////////////////////
We ALL need to get this staright in OUR heads:
There is NO time-limit on chargebacks.
It matters NOT what PP or the CC company states in their UA or
recites orally. There is NO time limint; PERIOD.
We are now seeing numerous CC chargebacks that are YEARS old.
The most famous case on EBAY happened two-months ago, when
more than $250,000 in CBs were filed through PayPal on transcations
from 2000 and 2001.
////////////////////
Sellers MUST retain their DC/SC tickets FOREVER.
//////////////////
Feedback-Left by a scamming-buyer is NOT evidence in a PP claim.
Such FB is evidence in a Small Claims suit.
////////////
Sellers using USPS-furnished DC/SC tickets should obtain a BIG stack
of the tickets from their PO. If a used-ticket is lost, "sequential range-entering"
will sometimes locate the sought after transaction on the USPS site.
//////////////////
Currently, complaints filed with the San Jose BBB have a very high rate of seller-satisfactory
resolutions. PP has a working group that concentrates on BBB complaints. The complaints
are being settled in sellers' favor with the PP message:
"Because you are such a good customer, we have, solely as a courtesy to you, resolved this
matter in your favor, and your account has now been credited."
////////////
I'm shocked.
After going through stacks of slips in my car's "junk drawer", I finally found the del conf slip. Called paypal, and after 5-6 mins on hold, they verified and credited my account in full. I then asked what action would be taken against this "criminal" who tried to defraud me. She said that he would "be dealt with", whatever that means. Boy were my eyes opened today!!!
Of course, since the recipient of a PayPal payment is not privy to the method used to fund the payment, the potential is always there for a chargeback.
In these scenarios you're screwed, because it doesn't matter where, when, or how you shipped the merchandise or even if you shipped the merchandise at all, because receipt of the package and/or quality of the merchandise isn't the issue... it all has to do with the authorization of the original payment. You lose.
But hasn't this always been the case with merchant credit card accounts? It isn't solely a PayPal issue...
EDIT: Now wait a second! The claim was for nonreceipt of merchandise and PayPal allowed it to be filed after the 45-day limit?? How? I thought only fraud-related claims were permitted after 45 days.
Ugh. Sounds like PayPal policies are at the whim of whatever monkey is pushing the button on that particular dispute...
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>So wait a minute, are you guys implying that if you use the post offices' delivery confirmation instead of printing it via paypal, you can't give them the number in the event of a dispute? >>
That is false. I did not use paypal's shipping labels, but I DID find the delivery confirmation slip and that was good enough.
<< <i>
<< <i>Like Gecko, I have never used the "Print shipping" button via Paypal. My question is, do I need to get a sheet of labels to print the shipping on or does the address and shipping just print on regular paper and then I would affix the labels myself using tape? >>
I have a label printer that makes peel and stick labels that are very handy. If you don't do enough shipping to justify that you can print them on plain paper. When I did that I used a glue stick on the reverse and then covered the label with clear tape to protect from the environment. Both ways you get a barcode that helps the USPS make accurate delivery. I like it. --Jerry >>
I buy Avery 5353 Full Sheet Label. I cut the label out to stick on the package and then apply clear packing tape to keep if from coming off.
I then cut out the tracking details and affix them to my copy of the packing list which goes in my files. Its about .30 cents a sheet but its neat and convenient for me and a little bit cheaper than Jerry's Label Printer.
The name is LEE!