Is this why PCGS no longer cites grades on failed crossovers?
lkeigwin
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Months ago I tried a crossover from NGC to PCGS with 6 or 8 early Lincolns. Didn't want a downgrade and, no surprise, a few were returned because PCGS wouldn't meet the NGC grade. Okay, fair enough. I was glad to get their opinion on the grade:
1910-S NGC 65RD would grade at PCGS 65RB
1911 NGC 65RD would grade at PCGS 65RB
So I later send them back and say cross at any grade. Both come back as 64RB, not 65RB.
Sure, grading has its subjective side. And maybe I should try again. But I have two questions:
1) Is it this sort of thing that caused PCGS to recently announce they would no longer cite grades on failed crossovers? (I am a little annoyed that I was sucked in thinking they would come back at 65RB only to find PCGS lowered the color and the grade.)
2) I don't think there's any recourse with PCGS, is there?
(Quickie pix not intended to elicit opinions on grade, just to show the grading history)
1910-S NGC 65RD would grade at PCGS 65RB
1911 NGC 65RD would grade at PCGS 65RB
So I later send them back and say cross at any grade. Both come back as 64RB, not 65RB.
Sure, grading has its subjective side. And maybe I should try again. But I have two questions:
1) Is it this sort of thing that caused PCGS to recently announce they would no longer cite grades on failed crossovers? (I am a little annoyed that I was sucked in thinking they would come back at 65RB only to find PCGS lowered the color and the grade.)
2) I don't think there's any recourse with PCGS, is there?
(Quickie pix not intended to elicit opinions on grade, just to show the grading history)
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I suspect that PCGS may have been called on the carpet by some astute submitter.
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1. No surprise whatsoever that an early Lincoln cent might grade 64RB one day and 65RB another day. You obviously have a "liner" gem RB coin in PCGS' eyes.
2. I suspect PCGS might honor the 65RB if you laid it out to them as you did here.
Wondercoin
You should have sent in their prior assessment tags along with min cross at those tag levels. Instead you probably got greedy and was hoping they'd cross at the same level.
I just got back some copper coins. I can tell you they are much tighter now on color. Buying copper in a PCGS slab to begin with is well worth the extra premium.
Once you say cross at any grade it gets broken out and then graded with no plastic to look through and maybe it is more accurate now.
The only thing objective about it is the date on the coin (most of the time)
In most cases it's best to sell the coins as is, then go looking for a PCGS replacement if that is your desire.
I would think that getting 3 distinct grades in 10 attempts would be very likely without even considering copper colorations. The correct or market grade of the coin would be the one that was achieved 5-8 times in that process.
roadrunner
<< <i>You should have sent in their prior assessment tags along with min cross at those tag levels. >>
That is how I did it and they came back with the prior assessments given every single time.
Sorry to see that PCGS will no longer have this service
<< <i>You should have sent in their prior assessment tags along with min cross at those tag levels. Instead you probably got greedy and was hoping they'd cross at the same level.
I just got back some copper coins. I can tell you they are much tighter now on color. Buying copper in a PCGS slab to begin with is well worth the extra premium. >>
No, I never hoped for or expected the same grade. I agreed with their color assessment. It was not about greed...maybe ignorance? It didn't even cross my mind that I should send along the earlier assessment tags. PCGS assigns a new cert# for coins that don't cross. Why? (Maybe they should be cross-referencing the NGC cert# with their new cert#. Useful, don't you think?)
But I agree with you about PCGS and their conservative stance on copper. Lots of experience there.
When the thread came out about PCGS's new policy on coins that don't cross, I posted a guess that maybe it had to do with the problems of accurate grading through a slab. Seems logical.
I'll write to PCGS and see what they say. I'll bet they come back with an answer much like Becoka's thinking.
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<< <i>They can't see the whole coin in the competitor holder. They call it like they see it.
Once you say cross at any grade it gets broken out and then graded with no plastic to look through and maybe it is more accurate now. >>
I'm not sure I agree with your comments. I don't believe that PCGS cracks out coins from the competitors' holders, even at the Cross at Any Grade. The reason is that I have used the Cross At Any Grade, and I have had coins returned in the original holder because of problems that would prevent grading.
If PCGS cracked out coins before grading, then I don't see how the coins could be maintained in their original holders if the
coins cannot be graded.
No doubt there are "discoveries" when inspecting raw vs cracked. I recall another instance where a very slight rim blem was discovered. Helped explain why only an MS63 was awarded. Didn't know until looked at her in the raw.
<< <i>When the thread came out about PCGS's new policy on coins that don't cross.... >>
I missed the thread. Can someone link it?
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
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<< <i>
<< <i>When the thread came out about PCGS's new policy on coins that don't cross.... >>
I missed the thread. Can someone link it? >>
There were two or three. This is the one I was referring to:
Link
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<< <i>You should have sent them back in WITH the rejection tag. I think they would honor the previous grade on the crossover label. >>
That's what I was thinking.
However, I do think this opened up a can of worms that could have been anticipated. What would have probably been nicer, and perhaps should be seriously considered, is the online abaility to have a couple day window to accept grades given minimum grades. It could be for a fee, 2/3 or even 100% of the service level fee. It would save on time and a lot of shipping a second time. And it would avoid the crapshoot in whether it will grade the same. PCGS wouldn't have to worry since the coin would remain unmolested in their custody. To be savvy, it might make best sense for the TPG to lower the crossover fees just a little ($10 economy, $25 regular) and not allow a sheet set minimum grade. It either crosses at the same or higher. If they would go lower, you'd be informed on your membership page on the website and could accept that grade for an additional $15. So the well-chosen crosses would be cheaper (and easier on the TPG) at $10 and $25 instead of $18 and $30. The ones that fall short could get lower grades for effectively $25 and $40. And the post office doesn't get richer in the process.
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<< <i>
And if the grade is your only hope, then you probably smoke dope.
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<< <i>From what I have heard from assorted dealers, if you send in the same coin 10 times, you are likely to get at least 3 distinctly different grades. >>
Exactly. My advice to Ikeigwin is crack them out and resubmit. They *would have* made 65RB the first time around and then they make 64RB. I hope you don't give up at this point with them still being in the 64RB holders.
"Unfortunately the grade that we place on the white sticker is not a guaranteed grade. It is an opinion of what the coin would have graded at during that point in time. Please remember that grading is subjective.
When a coin does not cross, we no longer provide the grade it would have crossed at. We have ceased this service because it is not a guaranteed grade and has been causing conflict."
<< <i>
LOLzer!