updated eBay problem - resolved claim with PayPal

Millertime · September 25, 2008 2:47AM

On 9/14 I won the following two coins: 1883-CC Morgan & 1878-CC Morgan. I promptly paid for both with PayPal (CC payment) and haven't seen anything yet. I went to check the seller's feedback and noticed he's not a registered user. I'll check my email tonight and see if I can get a response from the seller before I do anything but assuming I don't get any answers what do I do?

Do I wait another two weeks and file the claim with PayPal or do I decide not to mess with this crap and deal with my credit card company? I can tell my credit card company that I didn't receive the items and I refuse the charges, right?

After looking a little closer at the feedback I noticed that he hasn't had feedback since August but in September he sold 36 Morgans of decent value, that's quite a chunk of change. Are there red flags I should have seen before bidding?

BTW, except for a broken slab (on a state quarter) I haven't had any problems on eBay.

Thanks,
Millerte

Casman · September 25, 2008 2:53AM

Do you have contact info?

commoncents123 · September 25, 2008 2:54AM

You should file an item not received with Paypal right now...then wait about 3 days for the seller to respond, if he doesn't respond then escalate it...you will most certainly win

robkool · September 25, 2008 2:55AM

The best you can do, is going through your credit card company... That's what I did...

Millertime · September 25, 2008 2:59AM

I added up his auctions and if this is as bad as it's feeling right now he ripped off people for $12640.43!!

I thought he sent me a note indicating payment was received and the coins would ship next day but I've had so many lately I'm not positive. I will check tonight and send an email to him first if I have contact info.

Millertime

GrumpyEd · September 25, 2008 3:02AM

Looks like the last FB as a seller was in March.
(that's strange but not a red flag)
Still seems a bit scary that after not selling for that long he sold all the morgans and nobody has given FB for anything yet.

I'd be calling today, if you don't get an answer I'd get with praypal and the CC company to cancel payment.

If the coin shows up you can pay then.

Millertime · September 25, 2008 5:28AM

It is strange that there isn't any negatives (or positives) yet. I wonder where he stole the images from (assuming this whole thing was a scam).

Millertime

rgCoinGuy · September 25, 2008 5:34AM

It still could be on the up and up, and you have plenty of time for a credit card dispute, I would go through all normal channels. File an item not received dispute, and ask ebay for contact info from the seller. Anything could have happenned to delay his shipping, and that will keep you in good standings with paypal.

jdillane · September 25, 2008 5:41AM

Seller shows as registered now. Wonder what happened.

UtahCoin · September 25, 2008 5:44AM

<< You should file an item not received with Paypal right now...then wait about 3 days for the seller to respond, if he doesn't respond then escalate it...you will most certainly win >>

Yeah, but the sellers PP acct will be empty most likely. File now, and upgrade it right away.

Millertime · September 25, 2008 5:44AM

<< Seller shows as registered now. Wonder what happened. >>

Is there another place to look? Here's the feedback page which shows he's not a registered user.

Millertime

Millertime · September 25, 2008 5:45AM

<< 

<< You should file an item not received with Paypal right now...then wait about 3 days for the seller to respond, if he doesn't respond then escalate it...you will most certainly win >>

Yeah, but the sellers PP acct will be empty most likely. File now, and upgrade it right away. >>

Upgrade what?

rgCoinGuy · September 25, 2008 5:49AM

Toolhaus Nothing major here, but does show NARU here too.

BECOKA · September 25, 2008 5:53AM

If he is no longer registered I don't think anyone can leave feedback anymore.

Since you can't contact him I'd file a dispute with the CC and get your funds back. If for some reason you get the coins then you can re-pay it.

OPA · September 25, 2008 6:03AM

<< If he is no longer registered I don't think anyone can leave feedback anymore.

Since you can't contact him I'd file a dispute with the CC and get your funds back. If for some reason you get the coins then you can re-pay it. >>

Absolutely...do it today ... Since he is NARU'd, I'm not even sure that you can file a PayPal claim...Suggest you contact them though. Sounds like a Hijacked account.

ProofRainbowRoosevelt · September 25, 2008 6:11AM

<< Sounds like a Hijacked account. >>

Kinda has that vibe.

Millertime · September 25, 2008 6:20AM

How do I file a claim? Is it through eBay or PayPal?

Millertime

rgCoinGuy · September 25, 2008 6:24AM

In "MY Ebay" go down to your items you have won section, click the popup to the right of the items, and you will see a "report an item not received". Click there and follow the instructions.

OPA · September 25, 2008 6:25AM

<< How do I file a claim? Is it through eBay or PayPal?

Millertime >>

If you paid via PayPal.....PayPal....If you paid via check or M.O....eBay......but you can start the process in your ebay account, ebay will direct you to paypal. (Item not received..)

BECOKA · September 25, 2008 6:28AM

If you paid with a credit card then file with them.

I have never heard of a large claim with pay-pal working out.

Millertime · September 25, 2008 6:34AM

Filed. Now what happens? Do I wait (up to 30 days) for PayPal to reach a resolution? If they decide I'm right does PayPal give me all my money back or do they try to get it from the seller? Should I go straight to my credit card company and get them to do something now?

Thanks,
Millertime

Silverstate · September 25, 2008 6:42AM

<< It still could be on the up and up, and you have plenty of time for a credit card dispute, I would go through all normal channels. File an item not received dispute, and ask ebay for contact info from the seller. Anything could have happenned to delay his shipping, and that will keep you in good standings with paypal. >>

I totally agree. If you file the dispute and it shows up..No harm no foul.

If not, you are poised to get your mone back.

I would not sweat this one. You are well below the $2K buyer protection limit on each auction.

BECOKA · September 25, 2008 6:50AM

<< 

<< It still could be on the up and up, and you have plenty of time for a credit card dispute, I would go through all normal channels. File an item not received dispute, and ask ebay for contact info from the seller. Anything could have happenned to delay his shipping, and that will keep you in good standings with paypal. >>

I totally agree. If you file the dispute and it shows up..No harm no foul.

If not, you are poised to get your mone back.

I would not sweat this one. You are well below the $2K buyer protection limit on each auction. >>

Shoot, I was going by the $12,600 noted in the title of the thread. If it's a few hundred dollars then go the pay-pal route first and then do Credit Card as last resort.

Millertime · September 25, 2008 6:52AM

The $12,600 is the total for all of September auctions from the seller. I merely put that in the title to catch people's eye. I'm out about $650 total but if this was a case of a hijacked account then they made off with over $12,600.

Millertime

rgCoinGuy · September 25, 2008 7:09AM

You should be able to monitor the dispute, I forget where it is exactly, but I think its called Dispute Resolution Center. You can "upgrade" it to a claim after so many days, most of your questions should be answered in the Dispute Resolution Center I believe.

As far as your credit card, you have at least until you get your statement before you need to worry about filing a claim with them. To stay in good graces with Paypal, they want you to go through their dispute process first, then go through your credit card. Hopefully you get your coins and this account isn't hijacked, although I can understand being worried with them going NARU'd.

Millertime · September 25, 2008 7:12AM

I filed the dispute and immediately a message came up that the seller is unable to respond and do I want to upgrade to a claim. I did the claim thing and I found the resolution center so I'll monitor it. I'll hold off on the CC claim until I get some sort of answer from PayPal. I guess so the only thing I might be out is the finance charges on the credit card if this process takes a while.

Millertime

BECOKA · September 25, 2008 7:29AM

<< I filed the dispute and immediately a message came up that the seller is unable to respond and do I want to upgrade to a claim. I did the claim thing and I found the resolution center so I'll monitor it. I'll hold off on the CC claim until I get some sort of answer from PayPal. I guess so the only thing I might be out is the finance charges on the credit card if this process takes a while.

Millertime >>

Unless you just pay the credit card off. Worst case you will have a positive balance for the next month.

TorinoCobra71 · September 25, 2008 7:32AM

<< You should file an item not received with Paypal right now...then wait about 3 days for the seller to respond, if he doesn't respond then escalate it...you will most certainly win >>

Step into them Shane!

TC71

relicsncoins · September 25, 2008 8:33AM

Does the payment details for your paypal payment show the payment went to this guy? I know when I fell victim to a hijacked ebay account, the item was show as being in New York, but as soon as I sent my payment it showed that it went to China. I immediately filed a claim and was refunded within a week.

JJ

Millertime · September 25, 2008 10:26AM

<< Does the payment details for your paypal payment show the payment went to this guy? I know when I fell victim to a hijacked ebay account, the item was show as being in New York, but as soon as I sent my payment it showed that it went to China. I immediately filed a claim and was refunded within a week.

JJ >>

All I can find is an email address not a destination of payment.

Millertime

Walmann · September 25, 2008 10:28AM

Contact your credit card issuer now. Most likely the sellers Paypal account will either be empty or well short of the funds to recover all your money. Paypal will not be able to make you whole and you will have to contact your card issuer regardless.

At the very least find out from the card issuer how long you have to dispute the charge, card issuers may not offer the same dispute period. Paypal investigations take time, although with the NARU at Ebay they should move it along more quickly , still then tend to chew up time faster than a baseball player chaws tobacco ,more time will elapse. It is up to you if you want to give Paypal as much time as possible to respond, but watch the clock in regards to your card carriers dispute time.

The first time (this has happend 3 times over 5 years) I had this situation I started out the dispute only via Paypal, but they were very slow. Ended up just contacting my card company and Paypal quickly settled their end as well. The other two times once it was clear the seller was a deadbeat, I contacted the credit card company right away.

I did not read the links to the auctions, the dollar amount is not the $12K+ indicated in the thread's header. Being under $2k with the Paypal this is may be handled completely by PayPal, although being NARU and last feedback being early August pretty good bet you will not be seeing the coins.

roadrunner · September 25, 2008 10:59AM

If it's of any note, Washington Mutual is the service provider for paypal. And today the FDIC whammied WaMu and gave them to JPMorgan.

roadrunner

BECOKA · September 25, 2008 11:04AM

<< If it's of any note, Washington Mutual is the service provider for paypal. And today the FDIC whammied WaMu and gave them to JPMorgan.

roadrunner >>

I tried WAMU and dropped them after a week. They are very deceptive on the wording and terminology in their contracts.

notwilight · September 25, 2008 11:08AM

<< 

<< If it's of any note, Washington Mutual is the service provider for paypal. And today the FDIC whammied WaMu and gave them to JPMorgan.

roadrunner >>

I tried WAMU and dropped them after a week. They are very deceptive on the wording and terminology in their contracts. >>

Same here except I've told the customer service guy in India 3 times to cancel my card and they don't. That is probably illegal too. --Jerry

lcoopie · September 25, 2008 11:58AM

has anyone ever actually read the paypal protection clause?
pay pal protection

GrumpyEd · September 25, 2008 2:10PM

Which of these applies, the full amount or jut what they get from the account?
(since it says both I'd cancel through the CC)

How much coverage do I get with PayPal Buyer Protection?
If you see the eBay.com buyer protection message "Pay with PayPal and you’re covered", and if PayPal finds in your favor on your Claim, PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs – with no cap on coverage. If the buyer protection message includes a cap on coverage (such as the message on eBay.ca above), and if PayPal finds in your favor, then PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs, up to the coverage cap specified in the buyer protection message. The amount of coverage varies based on the eBay website where the purchase is made.

"What if PayPal makes a final decision in my favor?
If PayPal makes a final decision in your favor, we will collect any available funds in the seller’s PayPal balance at that time. However, recovery is not guaranteed and is limited only to the amounts that PayPal can recover from the seller’s Account. Any amounts collected from the seller will be placed in your Account."

brockdabadger · September 25, 2008 2:33PM

get in your car and go find him................what you waiting for GO!!!

packers88 · September 25, 2008 4:14PM

You will now see just how great paypal is. They force it on everyone claiming they want a great buying experience for the buyer so keep us informed on how well your experience is. I believe they will reimburse you up to $2000 at the most, so I don't know what happens to the other $10,600. Ask paypal, what happens to the other $10,600 that you might be out because they tout their service as the safest way to pay online so ask them to back this up. Actually, a safer way to pay online would have been to use an escrow service for this kind of money, but again I'm sure paypal had you brainwashed just like the millions of others that everything will be ok if you run across a scam artist, so now we shall see.

Millertime · September 26, 2008 9:28AM

Update: I checked the resolution center today and I get the following message on both items: "The seller has responded to our request for tracking information. We haven't confirmed the tracking information yet but wanted to share it with you."

I entered the tracking information but the number is not valid. Either it's not entered in the system or the seller's lying.

Update 9/27 (from the USPS site): Your item was accepted at 2:24 PM on September 26, 2008 in PHOENIX, AZ 85021. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later.

Maybe I'll get my two coins after all.

Millertime

Millertime · September 29, 2008 4:29AM

So I received the packages from the seller today via certified mail. I didn't sign but the receptionist at my work signed for them. I opened the coins in front of the office's accountant (coin collector buddy) and guess what I found.........

2005-P MS69 Nickel in a GCGS slab and a 1976-P MS69 Cent in a GCGS slab.

Frickin' Hell, what a damn thief. I would have much preferred no response, now I'm madder than hell. Stupid 'effin SOB!!!

I guess he thinks that sending something via certified mail he can claim that I switched the contents. Now do I continue with the PayPal dispute or say screw that and go straight to my CC company? I don't want to mess up anything with PayPal so that needs to be a consideration.

Millertime

UtahCoin · September 29, 2008 4:30AM

File your PayPal claim as "Significantly Not as Described"

rgCoinGuy · September 29, 2008 4:37AM

<< File your PayPal claim as "Significantly Not as Described" >>

Millertime · September 29, 2008 4:39AM

Do I file a new claim? I checked out the resolution center and I can't find any sort of link to update the current dispute.

Millertime

rgCoinGuy · September 29, 2008 4:39AM

<< 

<< File your PayPal claim as "Significantly Not as Described" >>

>>

I would also leave negative feedback to encourage others they have ripped off to do the same. Be careful though, something like "After much delay received 2008 Blah blah blah and 2008 blah blah instead of the coins I bid on. Reported to ebay and paypal. Beware. " Don't be personal or say anything that is not true in feedback.

BECOKA · September 29, 2008 4:40AM

Agree, file another Pay-pal claim as above and then do the CC charge back as a last resort.

Oops, maybe contact the seller first to see if you can return them for a refund.

BlackBeard · September 29, 2008 5:11AM

<< 2005-P MS69 Nickel in a GCGS slab and a 1976-P MS69 Cent in a GCGS slab. >>

Wow! That stinks.

He has sold nothing but Morgan and Peace dollars in the last 15 days, so it's clearly not an honest mistake.

I would email Paypal with the details and note that you have a witness to the opening of the package and see what they come up with. He probably knows what's coming and may have reduced his Paypal balance in preparation. I would guess you will end up at the credit card level eventually.

I usually use the credit card for Paypal purchases, but seeing things like this make me want to go 100% credit card on Paypal purchases.

Wish you the best of luck with this one.

OPA · September 29, 2008 5:19AM

Yup..your seller know the ropes...suggest you contact PayPal first & let them know what you received & then contact your credit card co.
I hope he is still NARU'd

OPA · September 29, 2008 5:23AM

<< 

<< 

<< File your PayPal claim as "Significantly Not as Described" >>

>>

I would also leave negative feedback to encourage others they have ripped off to do the same. Be careful though, something like "After much delay received 2008 Blah blah blah and 2008 blah blah instead of the coins I bid on. Reported to ebay and paypal. Beware. " Don't be personal or say anything that is not true in feedback. >>

Can't leave FB on a NARU'd account....

GrumpyEd · September 29, 2008 5:27AM

Look at the sellers FB, he just got a neg for sending a 5c instead of a Morgan to another buyer.

So he may have done this to all the buyers!

I'd call paypal and tell them to refund it now or you will reverse through CC.

Good luck! : )

GrumpyEd · September 29, 2008 5:30AM

Also it's strange that he was already NARU last week but someone still left the FB on the 29th?

Millertime · September 29, 2008 5:36AM

The negs should start rolling in. He had 36 Morgans listed and I'm sure he pulled this crap on everyone. I'll wait and talk to PayPal before I leave feedback or do the CC reversal.

Millertime

updated eBay problem - resolved claim with PayPal

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