I have an update folks. From the PayPal Help Pages. (Ref: Cancel eCheck )
-------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Can I cancel a payment that I've already sent?
A: You can cancel only unclaimed payments. If your payment is complete, please contact the recipient of the payment to request a refund.
Unclaimed payments can be canceled for the following reasons:
• A payment sent to an email address is not associated with a PayPal account. Once the email address is added to a PayPal account, the payment is automatically credited to the balance of that account.
• A payment is sent to a recipient with an unconfirmed email address. For security reasons, PayPal can only credit payments sent to a confirmed email address.
If you cancel an eCheck payment or Instant Transfer, PayPal cannot cancel the withdrawal from your bank account. The amount will be credited to your PayPal account balance. -------------------------------------------------------------------
Please note: The eCheck reference above is still applicable to "unclaimed payments" meaning that even though the "unclaimed payment" was cancelled, Paypal will still transfer the money from your bank account into your Paypal account.
As an experiment, I send an eCheck from my selling Paypal accounts to my buying Paypal account and was unable to cancel the transaction.
Try it yourself. Then comeback and block this buyer as there is more occuring here which has not been explained.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Please note: The eCheck reference above is still applicable to "unclaimed payments" meaning that even though the "unclaimed payment" was cancelled, Paypal will still transfer the money from your bank account into your Paypal account.
As an experiment, I send an eCheck from my selling Paypal accounts to my buying Paypal account and was unable to cancel the transaction.
Try it yourself. Then comeback and block this buyer as there is more occuring here which has not been explained.
////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////
As a buyer, I can quite easily "cancel" the transaction on the FUNDING end.
I don't need PayPal's help/permission to do that.
PayPal would then be notified that I had "stopped/cancelled" the payment on the FUNDING end.
My seller would then be notified by PayPal that I had "cancelled" the payment.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>Please note: The eCheck reference above is still applicable to "unclaimed payments" meaning that even though the "unclaimed payment" was cancelled, Paypal will still transfer the money from your bank account into your Paypal account.
As an experiment, I send an eCheck from my selling Paypal accounts to my buying Paypal account and was unable to cancel the transaction.
Try it yourself. Then comeback and block this buyer as there is more occuring here which has not been explained.
////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////
As a buyer, I can quite easily "cancel" the transaction on the FUNDING end.
I don't need PayPal's help/permission to do that.
PayPal would then be notified that I had "stopped/cancelled" the payment on the FUNDING end.
My seller would then be notified by PayPal that I had "cancelled" the payment. >>
Read it again Stormy: "You can cancel only unclaimed payments. "
If you don't believe me, send me an eCheck then cancel it to prove me wrong. I will refund whatever you send after it clears.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
As a test, I removed the target savings account which funds were to be transferred from my funding sources. Now I'll wait and see if the transaction gets cancelled.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Ok, here's how it all played out. After he heard from a number of PCGS forum members he contacted me last night at 8:15pm Pacific. He claims that PAYPAL cancelled the payments without his knowledge. He stated that he was on the phone with them trying to get it corrected.
I received a regular paypal payment for both coins this afternoon at 1:30pm Pacific. I'm shipping the coins out tonight on my way to the airport.
I will concede that his e-mails to me, once he finally replied, appear to be honest in his delivery of the situation.
While this may, or may not, be his fault, at this time I am going to lay blame on PAYPAL, which would really be no surprise, and I"m going to unblock him and recommend others do the same.
While I do feel that his failure to reply to my request for an explanation of the cancelled e-check, I honestly don't believe that he cancelled it intentionally.
And, assuming that the real problem was PAYPAL, I will gladly offer my apologies to 19Lyds & YaHa, as they were in defense of this e-bayer from the start.
Since at this time all issues have been resolve, feel free to PM me with questions or comments. I'll be away for a few days on business in Fort Lauderdale, but I'll reply to any inquiry as soon as time allows.
As I posted, 4 days is too soon to worry. Paypal worries about runaway buyers and probably shut him down for a while. Like I said, I'll take "slimeballs" like this anyday. --Jerry
Truth be told, I did contact this user and if there ever was a newbie then this guy was it. He simply bought too much stuff too quickly using PayPal and their red flags went flying.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>New totals for me2mike_123 ... He has either won or made BIN on 227 auctions since 8/14 .... (26 since 8/31) A lot of "bleeding heart" sellers gonna be sorry ..... >>
Sorry for what? Suppose he completes 50% of the transactions. I'd love to have $1M in sales this month that I only complete 50% of. Anything that isnt completed you get your fees back. The only thing you can't get back is the worry you put into it, so I don't do that.
I'd also say it is likely that if he were to buy something from me right now there is a 95% chance he would complete. A lot of "problem buyers" have quietly bought things from me, paid immediately, and moved on...
--Jerry >>
FYI ... those are completed transactions .. either via high bid or BIN....his purchases are all "over the board," not just coins ... winning auction totals are now up to 243 since 8/14. That does not strike you as odd? I'm going to keep my block on this person for 30 days & then come back to see what is going on with his account.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
I don't think there is any "SEEMS" about it Brian.
This new buyer, who has the money available, simply got caught up in a PayPal Audit which occured over the Labor Day weekend. He was as surprised by the "cancelled eChecks" as was Vamguy and made every attempt to right the situation as quickly as possible with what resources he had.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
After he heard from a few frum members?? Was this buyer on the forum? Or did guys take it upon themselves to go looking for him? I have about 10k in unpaid rent judgements over the years i would gladly pay 60 percent plus on collected amounts. LOL
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>Ok, here's how it all played out. After he heard from a number of PCGS forum members he contacted me last night at 8:15pm Pacific. He claims that PAYPAL cancelled the payments without his knowledge. He stated that he was on the phone with them trying to get it corrected.
I received a regular paypal payment for both coins this afternoon at 1:30pm Pacific. I'm shipping the coins out tonight on my way to the airport.
I will concede that his e-mails to me, once he finally replied, appear to be honest in his delivery of the situation.
While this may, or may not, be his fault, at this time I am going to lay blame on PAYPAL, which would really be no surprise, and I"m going to unblock him and recommend others do the same.
While I do feel that his failure to reply to my request for an explanation of the cancelled e-check, I honestly don't believe that he cancelled it intentionally.
And, assuming that the real problem was PAYPAL, I will gladly offer my apologies to 19Lyds & YaHa, as they were in defense of this e-bayer from the start.
Since at this time all issues have been resolve, feel free to PM me with questions or comments. I'll be away for a few days on business in Fort Lauderdale, but I'll reply to any inquiry as soon as time allows.
Larry >>
Larry, we all ready took care of we needed to do in our pm's. I glad it worked out for you. Anytime you are in the Southern Maryland area, lets have a beer and a crabcake. just remember I am a freak with a cane and a limp. No I don't look like Uncle Fester more like a bald shabacca. Bee good Larry. No offense taken. George
<< <i>. Do you understand? He CANCELLED the E-check payment. That's no different than cancelling a check you write to somebody for goods and/or services. >>
Also a felony
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>. Do you understand? He CANCELLED the E-check payment. That's no different than cancelling a check you write to somebody for goods and/or services. >>
<< <i>. Do you understand? He CANCELLED the E-check payment. That's no different than cancelling a check you write to somebody for goods and/or services. >>
Also a felony >>
So I guess PayPal needs to be charged with a "Felony" since they are the ones that cancelled the eCheck hey Frank?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>. Do you understand? He CANCELLED the E-check payment. That's no different than cancelling a check you write to somebody for goods and/or services. >>
Also a felony >>
So I guess PayPal needs to be charged with a "Felony" since they are the ones that cancelled the eCheck hey Frank? >>
<< <i>This email confirms that Michael Hargett has cancelled the pending $261.98 USD payment earlier sent to you. >>
That does not say that PayPal cancelled the payment, it says that the bidder did so.
Wouldn't that message have been worded differently if PayPal had frozen the account, and cancelled the e-check? I think so, because if they had, and he had not, and they said something false, PayPal would be damaging his reputation.
Good deals with: goldman86 mkman123 Wingsrule wondercoin segoja Tccuga OKCC LindeDad and others.
<< <i>This email confirms that Michael Hargett has cancelled the pending $261.98 USD payment earlier sent to you. >>
That does not say that PayPal cancelled the payment, it says that the bidder did so.
Wouldn't that message have been worded differently if PayPal had frozen the account, and cancelled the e-check? I think so, because if they had, and he had not, and they said something false, PayPal would be damaging his reputation. >>
You hit the nail on the head ... something does not add up here ...
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< This email confirms that Michael Hargett has cancelled the pending $261.98 USD payment earlier sent to you. >> <<That does not say that PayPal cancelled the payment, it says that the bidder did so.
The freak stays on my blocked bidder list.
"The president and congress won’t invade a foreign country unless the upper class can profit from such action."
<< <i>This email confirms that Michael Hargett has cancelled the pending $261.98 USD payment earlier sent to you. >>
That does not say that PayPal cancelled the payment, it says that the bidder did so.
Wouldn't that message have been worded differently if PayPal had frozen the account, and cancelled the e-check? I think so, because if they had, and he had not, and they said something false, PayPal would be damaging his reputation. >>
This is a canned email.
The only possible way a PayPal user can cancel an echeck (and this has YET to be proven) is to remove the target account from his paypal account or cancel the transaction at the bank since Paypal does NOT offer a "cancel" option for an eCheck or better yet, any transaction! (Check your PayPal accounts and see if there is an "option" for cancelling a transaction?) Since the auctions in question closed on Aug 30th at 12:36 and 12:41 (which is a Saturday), and the transaction was "cancelled" (I assume) on 9/1 and reported first thing Tuesday morning (8:58 am on the post), I hardly expect that the buyer could have contacted his bank (on the Weekend or on Labor Day) to have just this eCheck cancelled. (Both buyer and seller are in the same time zone just so that card doesn;t get played.)
Give this some rational though folks and look at the eBay details.
My experience has always been that eChecks show up in my online accounts as "pending" transactions. PayPal themselves state 3 to 5 Business Days for these transactions to clear.
Additionally, the buyer did in fact Pay the seller after his account had been unblocked so exactly what does this mean?
I'll tell you what it means:
Despite the "canned" email from Payal, the buyer did NOT cancel these echecks because the there was simply not enough time from when the transaction closed and the eCheck sent to when the banks opened for a telephone cancellation. I don't know about your bank but my bank will not allow or even offer me the option of canceling a "pending" transaction or ANY transaction online.
This also tells me that the buyer was upfront in that this was a PayPal problem and as soon as the account was unlocked, he DID pay for the two auctions in question AND he's paid for all his other auctions!
Prolific bidder? Yes! Prolific Buyer? Yes again!
Deserving of a good blocking?
Not in my book.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Lee, is this Hargitt character a close relative or something? What is your stake in this? It's quite a vehement and fanatical defence you're putting up for this "buyer".
<< <i>I don't know about your bank but my bank will not allow or even offer me the option of canceling a "pending" transaction or ANY transaction online. >>
That is not correct ... you can request a stop payment before the instrument is presented for payment. You need to indicate a check # ...
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
On second thought (I should have checked the PayPal User Agreement first), Lee is correct after all, when he writes "Paypal does NOT offer a "cancel" option for an eCheck or better yet, any transaction!"
From the PP User Agreement: "3.5 Bank Transfers. When Instant Transfer or eCheck is used as your Funding Source, or when you initiate an Add Funds transaction, you are requesting an electronic transfer from your bank account. For these transactions, PayPal will make electronic transfers via ACH from your bank account in the amount you specify. You agree that such requests constitute your authorization to PayPal to make the transfers, and once you have provided your authorization for the transfer, you will not be able cancel the electronic transfer. You give PayPal the right to resubmit any ACH debit you authorized that is returned for insufficient or uncollected funds."
I think I'll keep that in mind when using PayPal.
As for the misleading, poorly-worded, dumb e-mail from PayPal, I guess that's par for the course.
Good deals with: goldman86 mkman123 Wingsrule wondercoin segoja Tccuga OKCC LindeDad and others.
<< <i>Lee, is this Hargitt character a close relative or something? What is your stake in this? It's quite a vehement and fanatical defence you're putting up for this "buyer". >>
I do not know this individual but I have spoken with him on the phone. He is 100% legitimate.
My defense is NOT for this fellow as much as it is in pointing out the stupidity of the "BLOCK HAPPY Lynch Mob" mentality which in this case was incited by a "one-sided" unsubstantiated report.
"Guy buys two coins out of my eBay store, pays with an e-check. Two days later he cancels the payment, no contact, no explanation, and now doesn't reply to e-mails."
Since I received an email reply from this buyer, I'm kinda wondering exacty what emails were sent and to whom.
It's almost like some of you folks don't really care (which I know you do care), you just want to block someone on somebody elses say so which 9 times out of 10 is posted in anger or frustration as pointed out with: "And the beauty is that I can't neg him. Gotta love eBay. "
It's not the first time something like this has come up and I'm sure it's not the last time either.
Myself, after reviewing my "blocked bidder's" list and not knowing or remembering why these folks were blocked, decided to review each situation as it came up and decided from then on, I'd review each one to determine exactly what had occurred. I refuse to let a one-sided report dictate to me what I should or should not do and mearly presented the facts as they "unfolded" in this particular case.
And I do take exception to the implication that my posts have been "fanatical". Hopefully, should you need support on some issue in the future, you'll get someone that can take a bipartisan approach and step to your defense.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>I don't know about your bank but my bank will not allow or even offer me the option of canceling a "pending" transaction or ANY transaction online. >>
That is not correct ... you can request a stop payment before the instrument is presented for payment. You need to indicate a check # ... >>
Exactly right Mr. OPA, but this cannot be done ONLINE as I stated. It requires a phone call to your bank which could have proven difficult on the Labor Day Holiday weekend.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>"..."Paypal does NOT offer a "cancel" option for an eCheck or better yet, any transaction!">>>"
////////////////////////////
NOTWITHSTANDING any PayPal "policy," ALL of my banks allow me to "cancel" echecks either online, by phone, or in person.
PayPal has ZERO control over the instructions I give to the funding bank.
................
In the instant circumstance, it looks like the buyer got caught in the "buying limits" frequently imposed by PayPal's "security" bots.
Looks like it all worked out fine. >>
Please show a screen print with the key identifying information redacted.
I want to see the ONLINE CANCEL option.
AND, NOTWITHSTANDING any PayPal "policy," once you pull the rug out from UNDER PayPal, it really pisses them off and they cancel YOUR ACCOUNT. Which means no more transactions and no more activity. This buyer's account is up and fully running so I doubt seriously that he CANCELLED the transaction at the FUNDING SOURCE!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Exactly right Mr. OPA, but this cannot be done ONLINE as I stated. It requires a phone call to your bank which could have proven difficult on the Labor Day Holiday weekend. >>
Perhaps your Financial Institution does not allow you to place a stop payment online ... but mine does. ( $30 fee though )
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>Exactly right Mr. OPA, but this cannot be done ONLINE as I stated. It requires a phone call to your bank which could have proven difficult on the Labor Day Holiday weekend. >>
Perhaps your Financial Institution does not allow you to place a stop payment online ... but mine does. ( $30 fee though ) >>
I stand corrected by golly! My credit union does have a page where I can issue a stop payment on either a Check or an ACH payment.
However, its online in that I have to download the Stop Payment Form, fill it out with my signature and then fax it into to the credit union. (Which is closed on holiday weekends) I could phone it in but again, they were closed on that weekend.
I'll post it so Stormy doesn't have too!
Note the little PDF indicator next to the ACH Stop Payment Line.
Stopping payment on a check requires a Check Number. eChecks are ACH Payments.
Keep in mind, these are Stop Payments and not "cancelling an eCheck"
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I do block most of the ppl I read about on this this board if the story is strong enough. As for this guy, there was never enough evidence against him so I didn't. But thanks for the update.
<< <i>Despite the "canned" email from Payal, the buyer did NOT cancel these echecks because the there was simply not enough time from when the transaction closed and the eCheck sent to when the banks opened for a telephone cancellation. I don't know about your bank but my bank will not allow or even offer me the option of canceling a "pending" transaction or ANY transaction online.
This also tells me that the buyer was upfront in that this was a PayPal problem and as soon as the account was unlocked, he DID pay for the two auctions in question AND he's paid for all his other auctions!
Prolific bidder? Yes! Prolific Buyer? Yes again!
Deserving of a good blocking?
Not in my book. >>
I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. However I really thought this was done and over with but apparently certain obsessed individuals won't let it die.
<< <i>I do not know this individual but I have spoken with him on the phone. He is 100% legitimate.
My defense is NOT for this fellow as much as it is in pointing out the stupidity of the "BLOCK HAPPY Lynch Mob" mentality which in this case was incited by a "one-sided" unsubstantiated report.
"Guy buys two coins out of my eBay store, pays with an e-check. Two days later he cancels the payment, no contact, no explanation, and now doesn't reply to e-mails."
Since I received an email reply from this buyer, I'm kinda wondering exacty what emails were sent and to whom. >>
Since this now sounds accusatory, and suggests that I may have had an ulterior motive or perhaps lied about anything I previously posted, I am compelled to prove to 19lyds exactly what had actually transpired. So I will provide the substantiation he so desperately seeks, and then perhaps he'll find something else to obsess about. However, right now I'm sitting on the tarmac about to fly out of Fort Lauderdale. In the morning I'll post screen shots of the paypal notice I received stating that the "buyer" cancelled the e-check, including the date & time (at which time I'll expect 19lyds to provide proof that it was a "canned" paypal email). I'll post a screenshot of my e-mail to the buyer, sent to the same e-mail address registered to the paypal and ebay accounts, which I wrote to him just 4 minutes after the cancelled noticed was received in my in-box.
I'll also post a screenshot of the e-mail he sent to me, including the date & time. Which was less than expeditious. In fact, rather than reply to my request for an explanation of the cancelled payment, he continued to bid & buy all day long. He also appears to have replied to 19lyds and not me. Perhaps then 19lyds would explain to me why this buyer was so quick to reply to him, but not to my e-mail. Perhaps then 19lyds will provide us with substantial evidence that he isn't actually the buyer in question. Or maybe, after everything I've posted is "proven", maybe, just maybe, this will die the death it should have days ago.
As for the death it should have dies days ago, that would probably have occured had your update been posted to the original thread at the top of the list.
I have explained my position on this. Perhaps a little obsessive but I would rather think perhaps a little defensive.
If you fella's want to Block eBayers, thats fine with me but to come on the forums asking for a block without both sides of the story being heard is a little silly. Its even sillier for so many to buy into it without even bothering to ask questions.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>As for the death it should have dies days ago, that would probably have occured had your update been posted to the original thread at the top of the list.
I have explained my position on this. Perhaps a little obsessive but I would rather think perhaps a little defensive.
If you fella's want to Block eBayers, thats fine with me but to come on the forums asking for a block without both sides of the story being heard is a little silly. Its even sillier for so many to buy into it without even bothering to ask questions. >>
I have to agree to this...and also state that many people post things right away instead of taking a few days to cool down or follow-up. The lynch mob is quite passionate around here. Too many like to be little lemmings saying "me too, me too" rather than to think like what Lee did. He did some thinking and checking rather than just jumping to conclusions.
As for those that "don't want to take chances"....just block everyone. Don't need to see the "me too" posts or calling people "freaks". That's just juvenile. I'd like YOUR ebay ID to add to MY blocked bidder list
As promised, screen shots are shown below and in the OP:
Edited to add the following screen shots:
Item purchased. Note e-mail address provided by eBay. This will be the same e-mail address found in the paypal payments and all correspondence going forward.
Payment received
Cancellation of e-check received. Note date & time. Note e-mail address. Note "WHO" cancelled the payment per the paypal e-mail.
My reply sent to buyer 4 minutes after cancellation notice received. Note date & time and note e-mail address.
Reply by buyer received over 12 hours later, while on the phone with whom I will assume was 19lyds. Note that this is not a NEW e-mail sent to me, but rather an actual reply to my e-mail sent to him advising of the cancelled payment and requesting status of a new payment method.
Therefore, it was quite obvious, by these substantiated e-mail screenshots, that the buyer received my e-mail and chose to ignore it all day until he was contacted by a number of board members via e-mail and telephone. It actually took persuasion from a number of board members to get this guy to simply reply to my e-mail request regarding the cancelled e-check.
Looks to me like he was possibly trying to address the issue before replying to you. When I spoke with him, he wasn't even sure how many of his payments had been cancelled. Just imagine if you had been buying and paying for a lo of stuff and then all of a sudden, Paypal jumps in and cancel's all of your payments because they want to be sure that the transactions are legitimate and that the account has not been hacked? I do not know how many were actually affected by this but it was more than just yours.
Once this Paypal mess did get cleared up, I had to remind him that since I was acting on his behalf, that if he would pay your auction before the others that I would appreciate it. I also remember asking him to email you again to explain what what happening.
I don't really think he chose to ignore your email as much as I think he got confused over what he should do and who he had already responded to. I do know that when I talked with him, he was juggling a landline and a cell phone at the same time.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Looks to me like he was possibly trying to address the issue before replying to you.
I don't really think he chose to ignore your email as much as I think he got confused over what he should do and who he had already responded to. >>
I would agree with this.....I know that I wouldn't respond to the seller until I figured out what was going on if I had cancelled it...esp if I wasn't a "pro" of these boards or of paypal.
I stand behind thinking that some folks around here like to have an itchy trigger finger ( in blocking folks quickly, expecting payment 2 seconds after auction close, demanding feedback, etc etc etc).
Comments
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Can I cancel a payment that I've already sent?
A: You can cancel only unclaimed payments. If your payment is complete, please contact the recipient of the payment to request a refund.
Unclaimed payments can be canceled for the following reasons:
• A payment sent to an email address is not associated with a PayPal account.
Once the email address is added to a PayPal account, the payment is automatically credited to the balance of that account.
• A payment is sent to a recipient with an unconfirmed email address.
For security reasons, PayPal can only credit payments sent to a confirmed email address.
If you cancel an eCheck payment or Instant Transfer, PayPal cannot cancel the withdrawal from your bank account. The amount will be credited to your PayPal account balance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please note: The eCheck reference above is still applicable to "unclaimed payments" meaning that even though the "unclaimed payment" was cancelled, Paypal will still transfer the money from your bank account into your Paypal account.
As an experiment, I send an eCheck from my selling Paypal accounts to my buying Paypal account and was unable to cancel the transaction.
Try it yourself. Then comeback and block this buyer as there is more occuring here which has not been explained.
The name is LEE!
As an experiment, I send an eCheck from my selling Paypal accounts to my buying Paypal account and was unable to cancel the transaction.
Try it yourself. Then comeback and block this buyer as there is more occuring here which has not been explained.
////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////
As a buyer, I can quite easily "cancel" the transaction on the FUNDING end.
I don't need PayPal's help/permission to do that.
PayPal would then be notified that I had "stopped/cancelled" the
payment on the FUNDING end.
My seller would then be notified by PayPal that I had "cancelled" the payment.
Of course the paypal rep could have been FOS too.
But that was what i was told then.
Steve
<< <i>Please note: The eCheck reference above is still applicable to "unclaimed payments" meaning that even though the "unclaimed payment" was cancelled, Paypal will still transfer the money from your bank account into your Paypal account.
As an experiment, I send an eCheck from my selling Paypal accounts to my buying Paypal account and was unable to cancel the transaction.
Try it yourself. Then comeback and block this buyer as there is more occuring here which has not been explained.
////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////
As a buyer, I can quite easily "cancel" the transaction on the FUNDING end.
I don't need PayPal's help/permission to do that.
PayPal would then be notified that I had "stopped/cancelled" the
payment on the FUNDING end.
My seller would then be notified by PayPal that I had "cancelled" the payment. >>
Read it again Stormy: "You can cancel only unclaimed payments. "
If you don't believe me, send me an eCheck then cancel it to prove me wrong. I will refund whatever you send after it clears.
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Read it again Stormy: "You can cancel only unclaimed payments. " >>
What he said was that the eCheck can be cancelled at the funding source, IE; the buyer's bank. He's correct.
Russ, NCNE
If you don't believe me, send me an eCheck then cancel it to prove me wrong. I will refund whatever you send after it clears.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Sorry, you are confusing PP "policy" with the regulations that govern the policies of a REAL BANK.
PP can and does prohibit cancelation of an echeck under proscribed conditions. THAT means
PayPal will NOT cancel the transaction.
However, when I call MY bank and tell them not to FUND the echeck that PP
is processing, the bank WILL "cancel" - refuse to FUND - the echeck.
............
It is likely that the subject "buyer" asked his bank NOT to honor the echeck request.
PP was then notified that the item was "cancelled."
No one needs this. if he is legit, he would have made some attempt to call.
Even then, I'd block the guy.
He has NO defense.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
No explanation?...No excuse!
Don't need the headache!
JMHO,
Brian
I Love
I received a regular paypal payment for both coins this afternoon at 1:30pm Pacific. I'm shipping the coins out tonight on my way to the airport.
I will concede that his e-mails to me, once he finally replied, appear to be honest in his delivery of the situation.
While this may, or may not, be his fault, at this time I am going to lay blame on PAYPAL, which would really be no surprise, and I"m going to unblock him and recommend others do the same.
While I do feel that his failure to reply to my request for an explanation of the cancelled e-check, I honestly don't believe that he cancelled it intentionally.
And, assuming that the real problem was PAYPAL, I will gladly offer my apologies to 19Lyds & YaHa, as they were in defense of this e-bayer from the start.
Since at this time all issues have been resolve, feel free to PM me with questions or comments. I'll be away for a few days on business in Fort Lauderdale, but I'll reply to any inquiry as soon as time allows.
Larry
PCGS, ANACS, & NGC Certified Coins on My Website.
Truth be told, I did contact this user and if there ever was a newbie then this guy was it. He simply bought too much stuff too quickly using PayPal and their red flags went flying.
The name is LEE!
Glad it is working out. I recommend putting the resolution in the OP to keep any misunderstandings to a minimum.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Be sure to cover all the bases, like Signature Confirmation etc!
Good Luck.
<< <i>
<< <i>New totals for me2mike_123 ... He has either won or made BIN on 227 auctions since 8/14 .... (26 since 8/31) A lot of "bleeding heart" sellers gonna be sorry ..... >>
Sorry for what? Suppose he completes 50% of the transactions. I'd love to have $1M in sales this month that I only complete 50% of. Anything that isnt completed you get your fees back. The only thing you can't get back is the worry you put into it, so I don't do that.
I'd also say it is likely that if he were to buy something from me right now there is a 95% chance he would complete. A lot of "problem buyers" have quietly bought things from me, paid immediately, and moved on...
--Jerry >>
FYI ... those are completed transactions .. either via high bid or BIN....his purchases are all "over the board," not just coins ... winning auction totals are now up to 243 since 8/14. That does not strike you as odd? I'm going to keep my block on this person for 30 days & then come back to see what is going on with his account.
Bring your surf board to Ft. Lauderdale....Hanna has the surf kickin'!
But, don't hang around too long....Looks like Ike could be a WHOLE different story!
Brian
I Love
This new buyer, who has the money available, simply got caught up in a PayPal Audit which occured over the Labor Day weekend. He was as surprised by the "cancelled eChecks" as was Vamguy and made every attempt to right the situation as quickly as possible with what resources he had.
The name is LEE!
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>Ok, here's how it all played out. After he heard from a number of PCGS forum members he contacted me last night at 8:15pm Pacific. He claims that PAYPAL cancelled the payments without his knowledge. He stated that he was on the phone with them trying to get it corrected.
I received a regular paypal payment for both coins this afternoon at 1:30pm Pacific. I'm shipping the coins out tonight on my way to the airport.
I will concede that his e-mails to me, once he finally replied, appear to be honest in his delivery of the situation.
While this may, or may not, be his fault, at this time I am going to lay blame on PAYPAL, which would really be no surprise, and I"m going to unblock him and recommend others do the same.
While I do feel that his failure to reply to my request for an explanation of the cancelled e-check, I honestly don't believe that he cancelled it intentionally.
And, assuming that the real problem was PAYPAL, I will gladly offer my apologies to 19Lyds & YaHa, as they were in defense of this e-bayer from the start.
Since at this time all issues have been resolve, feel free to PM me with questions or comments. I'll be away for a few days on business in Fort Lauderdale, but I'll reply to any inquiry as soon as time allows.
Larry >>
Larry, we all ready took care of we needed to do in our pm's. I glad it worked out for you. Anytime you are in the Southern Maryland area, lets have a beer and a crabcake. just remember I am a freak with a cane and a limp. No I don't look like Uncle Fester more like a bald shabacca. Bee good Larry. No offense taken. George
The name is LEE!
<< <i>. Do you understand? He CANCELLED the E-check payment. That's no different than cancelling a check you write to somebody for goods and/or services. >>
Also a felony
<< <i>
<< <i>. Do you understand? He CANCELLED the E-check payment. That's no different than cancelling a check you write to somebody for goods and/or services. >>
Also a felony >>
Huh?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>
<< <i>. Do you understand? He CANCELLED the E-check payment. That's no different than cancelling a check you write to somebody for goods and/or services. >>
Also a felony >>
So I guess PayPal needs to be charged with a "Felony" since they are the ones that cancelled the eCheck hey Frank?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>. Do you understand? He CANCELLED the E-check payment. That's no different than cancelling a check you write to somebody for goods and/or services. >>
Also a felony >>
So I guess PayPal needs to be charged with a "Felony" since they are the ones that cancelled the eCheck hey Frank? >>
Lee..........you little stinker
<< <i>This email confirms that Michael Hargett has cancelled the pending $261.98 USD payment earlier sent to you. >>
That does not say that PayPal cancelled the payment, it says that the bidder did so.
Wouldn't that message have been worded differently if PayPal had frozen the account, and cancelled the e-check? I think so, because if they had, and he had not, and they said something false, PayPal would be damaging his reputation.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
<< <i>
<< <i>This email confirms that Michael Hargett has cancelled the pending $261.98 USD payment earlier sent to you. >>
That does not say that PayPal cancelled the payment, it says that the bidder did so.
Wouldn't that message have been worded differently if PayPal had frozen the account, and cancelled the e-check? I think so, because if they had, and he had not, and they said something false, PayPal would be damaging his reputation. >>
You hit the nail on the head ... something does not add up here ...
<<That does not say that PayPal cancelled the payment, it says that the bidder did so.
The freak stays on my blocked bidder list.
"The president and congress won’t invade a foreign country unless the upper class can profit from such action."
<< <i>
<< <i>This email confirms that Michael Hargett has cancelled the pending $261.98 USD payment earlier sent to you. >>
That does not say that PayPal cancelled the payment, it says that the bidder did so.
Wouldn't that message have been worded differently if PayPal had frozen the account, and cancelled the e-check? I think so, because if they had, and he had not, and they said something false, PayPal would be damaging his reputation. >>
This is a canned email.
The only possible way a PayPal user can cancel an echeck (and this has YET to be proven) is to remove the target account from his paypal account or cancel the transaction at the bank since Paypal does NOT offer a "cancel" option for an eCheck or better yet, any transaction! (Check your PayPal accounts and see if there is an "option" for cancelling a transaction?) Since the auctions in question closed on Aug 30th at 12:36 and 12:41 (which is a Saturday), and the transaction was "cancelled" (I assume) on 9/1 and reported first thing Tuesday morning (8:58 am on the post), I hardly expect that the buyer could have contacted his bank (on the Weekend or on Labor Day) to have just this eCheck cancelled. (Both buyer and seller are in the same time zone just so that card doesn;t get played.)
Give this some rational though folks and look at the eBay details.
My experience has always been that eChecks show up in my online accounts as "pending" transactions. PayPal themselves state 3 to 5 Business Days for these transactions to clear.
Additionally, the buyer did in fact Pay the seller after his account had been unblocked so exactly what does this mean?
I'll tell you what it means:
Despite the "canned" email from Payal, the buyer did NOT cancel these echecks because the there was simply not enough time from when the transaction closed and the eCheck sent to when the banks opened for a telephone cancellation. I don't know about your bank but my bank will not allow or even offer me the option of canceling a "pending" transaction or ANY transaction online.
This also tells me that the buyer was upfront in that this was a PayPal problem and as soon as the account was unlocked, he DID pay for the two auctions in question AND he's paid for all his other auctions!
Prolific bidder? Yes! Prolific Buyer? Yes again!
Deserving of a good blocking?
Not in my book.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I don't know about your bank but my bank will not allow or even offer me the option of canceling a "pending" transaction or ANY transaction online. >>
That is not correct ... you can request a stop payment before the instrument is presented for payment. You need to indicate a check # ...
From the PP User Agreement:
"3.5 Bank Transfers. When Instant Transfer or eCheck is used as your Funding Source, or when you initiate an Add Funds transaction, you are requesting an electronic transfer from your bank account. For these transactions, PayPal will make electronic transfers via ACH from your bank account in the amount you specify. You agree that such requests constitute your authorization to PayPal to make the transfers, and once you have provided your authorization for the transfer, you will not be able cancel the electronic transfer. You give PayPal the right to resubmit any ACH debit you authorized that is returned for insufficient or uncollected funds."
I think I'll keep that in mind when using PayPal.
As for the misleading, poorly-worded, dumb e-mail from PayPal, I guess that's par for the course.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
<< <i>Lee, is this Hargitt character a close relative or something? What is your stake in this? It's quite a vehement and fanatical defence you're putting up for this "buyer". >>
I do not know this individual but I have spoken with him on the phone. He is 100% legitimate.
My defense is NOT for this fellow as much as it is in pointing out the stupidity of the "BLOCK HAPPY Lynch Mob" mentality which in this case was incited by a "one-sided" unsubstantiated report.
"Guy buys two coins out of my eBay store, pays with an e-check. Two days later he cancels the payment, no contact, no explanation, and now doesn't reply to e-mails."
Since I received an email reply from this buyer, I'm kinda wondering exacty what emails were sent and to whom.
It's almost like some of you folks don't really care (which I know you do care), you just want to block someone on somebody elses say so which 9 times out of 10 is posted in anger or frustration as pointed out with: "And the beauty is that I can't neg him.
It's not the first time something like this has come up and I'm sure it's not the last time either.
Myself, after reviewing my "blocked bidder's" list and not knowing or remembering why these folks were blocked, decided to review each situation as it came up and decided from then on, I'd review each one to determine exactly what had occurred. I refuse to let a one-sided report dictate to me what I should or should not do and mearly presented the facts as they "unfolded" in this particular case.
And I do take exception to the implication that my posts have been "fanatical". Hopefully, should you need support on some issue in the future, you'll get someone that can take a bipartisan approach and step to your defense.
The name is LEE!
////////////////////////////
NOTWITHSTANDING any PayPal "policy," ALL of my banks allow me to "cancel"
echecks either online, by phone, or in person.
PayPal has ZERO control over the instructions I give to the funding bank.
................
In the instant circumstance, it looks like the buyer got caught in
the "buying limits" frequently imposed by PayPal's "security" bots.
Looks like it all worked out fine.
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't know about your bank but my bank will not allow or even offer me the option of canceling a "pending" transaction or ANY transaction online. >>
That is not correct ... you can request a stop payment before the instrument is presented for payment. You need to indicate a check # ... >>
Exactly right Mr. OPA, but this cannot be done ONLINE as I stated. It requires a phone call to your bank which could have proven difficult on the Labor Day Holiday weekend.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>"..."Paypal does NOT offer a "cancel" option for an eCheck or better yet, any transaction!">>>"
////////////////////////////
NOTWITHSTANDING any PayPal "policy," ALL of my banks allow me to "cancel"
echecks either online, by phone, or in person.
PayPal has ZERO control over the instructions I give to the funding bank.
................
In the instant circumstance, it looks like the buyer got caught in
the "buying limits" frequently imposed by PayPal's "security" bots.
Looks like it all worked out fine. >>
Please show a screen print with the key identifying information redacted.
I want to see the ONLINE CANCEL option.
AND, NOTWITHSTANDING any PayPal "policy," once you pull the rug out from UNDER PayPal, it really pisses them off and they cancel YOUR ACCOUNT. Which means no more transactions and no more activity. This buyer's account is up and fully running so I doubt seriously that he CANCELLED the transaction at the FUNDING SOURCE!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Exactly right Mr. OPA, but this cannot be done ONLINE as I stated. It requires a phone call to your bank which could have proven difficult on the Labor Day Holiday weekend. >>
Perhaps your Financial Institution does not allow you to place a stop payment online ... but mine does. ( $30 fee though )
<< <i>
<< <i>Exactly right Mr. OPA, but this cannot be done ONLINE as I stated. It requires a phone call to your bank which could have proven difficult on the Labor Day Holiday weekend. >>
Perhaps your Financial Institution does not allow you to place a stop payment online ... but mine does. ( $30 fee though ) >>
I stand corrected by golly! My credit union does have a page where I can issue a stop payment on either a Check or an ACH payment.
However, its online in that I have to download the Stop Payment Form, fill it out with my signature and then fax it into to the credit union. (Which is closed on holiday weekends) I could phone it in but again, they were closed on that weekend.
I'll post it so Stormy doesn't have too!
Note the little PDF indicator next to the ACH Stop Payment Line.
Stopping payment on a check requires a Check Number. eChecks are ACH Payments.
Keep in mind, these are Stop Payments and not "cancelling an eCheck"
The name is LEE!
<< <i>...As for this guy, there was never enough evidence against him so I didn't. But thanks for the update. >>
<< <i>Despite the "canned" email from Payal, the buyer did NOT cancel these echecks because the there was simply not enough time from when the transaction closed and the eCheck sent to when the banks opened for a telephone cancellation. I don't know about your bank but my bank will not allow or even offer me the option of canceling a "pending" transaction or ANY transaction online.
This also tells me that the buyer was upfront in that this was a PayPal problem and as soon as the account was unlocked, he DID pay for the two auctions in question AND he's paid for all his other auctions!
Prolific bidder? Yes! Prolific Buyer? Yes again!
Deserving of a good blocking?
Not in my book. >>
I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. However I really thought this was done and over with but apparently certain obsessed individuals won't let it die.
<< <i>I do not know this individual but I have spoken with him on the phone. He is 100% legitimate.
My defense is NOT for this fellow as much as it is in pointing out the stupidity of the "BLOCK HAPPY Lynch Mob" mentality which in this case was incited by a "one-sided" unsubstantiated report.
"Guy buys two coins out of my eBay store, pays with an e-check. Two days later he cancels the payment, no contact, no explanation, and now doesn't reply to e-mails."
Since I received an email reply from this buyer, I'm kinda wondering exacty what emails were sent and to whom. >>
Since this now sounds accusatory, and suggests that I may have had an ulterior motive or perhaps lied about anything I previously posted, I am compelled to prove to 19lyds exactly what had actually transpired. So I will provide the substantiation he so desperately seeks, and then perhaps he'll find something else to obsess about. However, right now I'm sitting on the tarmac about to fly out of Fort Lauderdale. In the morning I'll post screen shots of the paypal notice I received stating that the "buyer" cancelled the e-check, including the date & time (at which time I'll expect 19lyds to provide proof that it was a "canned" paypal email). I'll post a screenshot of my e-mail to the buyer, sent to the same e-mail address registered to the paypal and ebay accounts, which I wrote to him just 4 minutes after the cancelled noticed was received in my in-box.
I'll also post a screenshot of the e-mail he sent to me, including the date & time. Which was less than expeditious. In fact, rather than reply to my request for an explanation of the cancelled payment, he continued to bid & buy all day long. He also appears to have replied to 19lyds and not me. Perhaps then 19lyds would explain to me why this buyer was so quick to reply to him, but not to my e-mail. Perhaps then 19lyds will provide us with substantial evidence that he isn't actually the buyer in question. Or maybe, after everything I've posted is "proven", maybe, just maybe, this will die the death it should have days ago.
PCGS, ANACS, & NGC Certified Coins on My Website.
eBay, sometimes is not the best media for sending or receiving email. This also includes paypal.
The name is LEE!
I have explained my position on this. Perhaps a little obsessive but I would rather think perhaps a little defensive.
If you fella's want to Block eBayers, thats fine with me but to come on the forums asking for a block without both sides of the story being heard is a little silly.
Its even sillier for so many to buy into it without even bothering to ask questions.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>As for the death it should have dies days ago, that would probably have occured had your update been posted to the original thread at the top of the list.
I have explained my position on this. Perhaps a little obsessive but I would rather think perhaps a little defensive.
If you fella's want to Block eBayers, thats fine with me but to come on the forums asking for a block without both sides of the story being heard is a little silly.
Its even sillier for so many to buy into it without even bothering to ask questions. >>
I have to agree to this...and also state that many people post things right away instead of taking a few days to cool down or follow-up. The lynch mob is quite passionate around here. Too many like to be little lemmings saying "me too, me too" rather than to think like what Lee did. He did some thinking and checking rather than just jumping to conclusions.
As for those that "don't want to take chances"....just block everyone. Don't need to see the "me too" posts or calling people "freaks". That's just juvenile. I'd like YOUR ebay ID to add to MY blocked bidder list
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Edited to add the following screen shots:
Item purchased. Note e-mail address provided by eBay. This will be the same e-mail address found in the paypal payments and all correspondence going forward.
Payment received
Cancellation of e-check received. Note date & time. Note e-mail address. Note "WHO" cancelled the payment per the paypal e-mail.
My reply sent to buyer 4 minutes after cancellation notice received. Note date & time and note e-mail address.
Reply by buyer received over 12 hours later, while on the phone with whom I will assume was 19lyds. Note that this is not a NEW e-mail sent to me, but rather an actual reply to my e-mail sent to him advising of the cancelled payment and requesting status of a new payment method.
Therefore, it was quite obvious, by these substantiated e-mail screenshots, that the buyer received my e-mail and chose to ignore it all day until he was contacted by a number of board members via e-mail and telephone. It actually took persuasion from a number of board members to get this guy to simply reply to my e-mail request regarding the cancelled e-check.
PCGS, ANACS, & NGC Certified Coins on My Website.
Looks to me like he was possibly trying to address the issue before replying to you. When I spoke with him, he wasn't even sure how many of his payments had been cancelled. Just imagine if you had been buying and paying for a lo of stuff and then all of a sudden, Paypal jumps in and cancel's all of your payments because they want to be sure that the transactions are legitimate and that the account has not been hacked? I do not know how many were actually affected by this but it was more than just yours.
Once this Paypal mess did get cleared up, I had to remind him that since I was acting on his behalf, that if he would pay your auction before the others that I would appreciate it. I also remember asking him to email you again to explain what what happening.
I don't really think he chose to ignore your email as much as I think he got confused over what he should do and who he had already responded to. I do know that when I talked with him, he was juggling a landline and a cell phone at the same time.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Thanks Larry.
Looks to me like he was possibly trying to address the issue before replying to you.
I don't really think he chose to ignore your email as much as I think he got confused over what he should do and who he had already responded to. >>
I would agree with this.....I know that I wouldn't respond to the seller until I figured out what was going on if I had cancelled it...esp if I wasn't a "pro" of these boards or of paypal.
I stand behind thinking that some folks around here like to have an itchy trigger finger ( in blocking folks quickly, expecting payment 2 seconds after auction close, demanding feedback, etc etc etc).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Ive been dying to get one of those...
Also looking for VF-EF Seated halves.
Sell me your old auction catalogs...