Goldbully, truly, that was the happiest result for me, as it is a passion. I have been in distress the last few days wondering where the younger generation was.. today they arrived and took over. Maybe it was the Wizard thing and the Eagle and Abe Lincoln... oh no, I forgot to mention Abe, camped out at Whitman( I guess their response to the Wizard-Whitman called out the heavy armor)-very good likeness, engaging fellow, I talked to him for a few minutes and he said the YNs were approaching him and seemed to be enjoying themselves. Respectfully, john
I really don't think that the ANA show can be a judge of how the coin market is going to perform over the next year. Let's face it most collectors save up to spend here since more material is available. Let's factor in a slide in gold price which play against coin sales. The amount of traffic ie comment that the show seemed light is not true since we are in 4 halls vs the average of 2.5 for a summer Baltimore. I would say most dealers would say they had good strong sales. I look forward to seeing public turnout on Sat. Ill also say that I thing the HOUR US Mint coins coming out in Jan will be a huge hit. They are just way too cool and if priced right will be a big hit. See ya tommorow
<< <i>Goldbully, truly, that was the happiest result for me, as it is a passion. I have been in distress the last few days wondering where the younger generation was.. today they arrived and took over. Maybe it was the Wizard thing and the Eagle and Abe Lincoln... oh no, I forgot to mention Abe, camped out at Whitman( I guess their response to the Wizard-Whitman called out the heavy armor)-very good likeness, engaging fellow, I talked to him for a few minutes and he said the YNs were approaching him and seemed to be enjoying themselves. Respectfully, john >>
Oh, I forgot something else. Kagins had a large Anniversary cake in front of their table at the front of the Show, in honor of their 75th Anniversary. Anyone at the Show that wanted a piece was welcome. In agreement with Scarsdale, the Show did seem VERY crowded at that time at that location. Noted that a number of dealers seem to like cake.
Scarsdale, I didn't state the show was light. I stated it was comfortable to navigate and not a bumping contest. This is directly because it is in four halls, which is a nice change and encourages people to attend and stay. I am sorry if that part of my Report was not clear. Respectfully, John Curlis
Four-star report, charley. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
I arrived at the show Wednesday morning shortly after it opened. I only had Wednesday and Thursday to attend so I focused on coin viewing on the bourse and auctions. I would have liked to attend some of the classes and specialty clubs, but maybe next year.
I immediately went to the world and ancient coin area and visited with Mark Teller and a dealer from Germany. I purchased coins from both of them including several pcgs proof 68 1 mark pieces, a stunning 1914 3 mark proof that was raw, and a seldom seen 1/2 and 1/4 pagoda in pcgs 63 from India. Did you know Mark can speak 5 different languages? ( no wonder he is a top foreign dealer). I tried to get in to see Karl Stephans but his table was to busy.
Next, I visited Andy Lustig. He had some terrific early gold from India ( circa 400 AD) and some other nice coins from purchases he made overseas. Seldom seen coins but I only bought a raw circ higher grade columbian 1835 8 reales.
I then went to Mike Dunigan's table. Mike is an authority on coins of Mexico and has co authored Resplandores, an indispensible book for serious Cap and Rays 8 reales enthusiasts. I bought my second copy of this book and he autographed it for me. I also purchased from him a nice original 1839 Mo M 8 reales raw. He guaranteed it would be slabbed. I like dealers like that who sell raw coins who stand behind their coins. He also authenticated an NGC 64 1834/3 mexican 8 reales piece I had bought in Chicago and he said it was the nicest of that date he had seen in 20 years ( his book says it rare). He offered to buy it but I like these coins and I politely said it was not for sale.
I then moved to the PCGS booth and dropped off about 10 raw coins and submitted 3 crossovers, including an ICG ef 40 1916 d dime. I briefly said hello to Ron Guth and had a conversation with a woman who is designated to develop business from overseas. She must be doing a good job as the world coin submission turn time is extending. While at the PCGS tabe I briefly said hello to John Agre.
Next I went by Legends table. Now Laura Sperber is my hero, plain and simple. I begged her to show me some great coins for my consideration but this time around alas there was nothing that interested me. What I love about Laura Sperber is that she will tell you things like "this coin is not for you" or this coin has this problem ( and proceed to say something negative about a coin in her own inventory) They do not come anymore honest than her, imo. She mentioned the coin market was in a state of confusion. I was not sure what she meant by that but I think it had to do with CAC taking hold in the market place.
As a side note the vast majority of coins I saw were not original. Many are in slabs. I think those coins that are original with eye appeal will continue to appreciate.
I then took a break and went and viewed coins in the Signature auction. I bought the 1802/1 dollar pcgs ef 45 CAC and was happy to pay the premium for the originality. I did not stay for the whole auction Wednesday evening but as always enjoyed the Heritage buffet.
Thursday I began with viewing the more coins from the Heritage auction. Among others, I think I bought the pcgs 66 1893 2 1/2 liberty gold. I really think the later dated coins in this series ( 1880's thru 1907 in 65 and above) are undervalued. Not enough collectors I guess.
My next stop when the bourse opened was Goldberg's. They had some really nice coins coming up for sale in Long Beach including a true for the grade 1794 pcgs vf dollar. ( unlike the NGC vf graded one in the ANA auction). I met Dr Hesselgesser at their booth. He had on display his bust dollar collection as well as some duplicates for sale. Really some amazing coins and an interesting fellow. I also spoke with Ira Goldberg ( I think he is still glowing from the Millenia sale or maybe its me). I asked him his thoughts about world coins and he suggested it is burgeoning. He specifically indicated growing popularity among collectors of underappreciated and relatively low priced spanish american coins that circulated freely as legal tender in the US until 1850.
Next I went by Angel Dees but could not come to terms on a choice 1921 slq. I also stopped by Scarsdale who among other things had a nice assortment of foreign gold. Their grades were guaranteed by (wings) a group similar to the purposes of CAC but are world coin specialists. I have never heard of them. I did pick up a very nice 1869 dollar from Grant Campbell in pcgs au 55 OGH and paid about 3 1/2 times price guide. I did not get to see every table but briefly said hello or saw Julian, DH, Steve Ivy, QDB, Mike Printz, 'first shot Harry L" and other long time professionals of this 'hobby'. I also briefly chatted with some exceptional advanced collectors with some of the finest world crown collections in the world.
The last coin I bought on the bourse was a Bechtler 134 grains 5 dollar gold piece graded pcgs 58. It looked nice and original. It was the first pioneer gold piece I have ever purchased. ( from National Gold Exchange). I then stopped by Dick Osborn's table and though I did not see anything of interest, I overheard him saying how tight professional grading has become. It needs too , imo. I then made one more pass at the platinum auction sale and believe I ultimately was the underbidder on the 1839 pcgs red booby head large cent. Really a nice coin.
Again, I think coins with eye appealing originalty are still underpriced as fewer and fewer are around. I also think interest in world coins are growing among US dealers and collectors based on what I saw and heard.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
The seated and bust market is in fine shape and looks to be fine for quite some time to come. I see no issue with FUN being very strong as well. Great seated coins, even type coins, are bringing phenomenal money. If the coin is all there, it's under great demand. So-so coins are readily available and are moving much slower. Type coins have always been the bread and butter of the "investment" coin market and serious dealers and enthusiasts as well, imo. They are finally getting their due after taking a back seat to REG set fever coins over the past 4 years.
When I search through Heritage's list of unsold coins, it strikes me that compared to the coins sold, a much larger fraction of the unsold coins are NGC coins. In other words, it looks like PCGS encapsulated coins are "easier" to sell than NGC encapsulated coins. Does this casual observation agree with what you see at the auction?
That's a reasonable assessment but not always. In this case there were a fair number of NGC super graded coins that did not meet reserve. But in the case of that 1838 half dime fetching $37K, it made no difference that it was in an NGC holder (in this particular auction). Next time out it could be different.
It's true that the same NGC coin, when placed in the same PCGS holder (same grade) will bring 5-20% more in many cases. PCGS coin still appear to be more liquid. It did unnerve me a bit when I showed what is arguably the best MS67 no motto seated half (in any holder) to a very sharp dealer. His reply was that it needed to be in PCGS plastic to bring all the money.
Biggest darn coin & paper show ever that I've attended. I counted 7 International Mints, along with the BEP (amazing display of currency ) & the US Mint. That Gold restrike scheduled for release in 2009 is a beauty. Since I do not collect nor can I afford the expensive classic coins, I limited my purchases to "freebees": sample slabs from PCGS & NGC....ANACS & ICG did not have any, & made a small purchase from the BEP, 2008 $2 single Dallas & Richmond notes ... US Mint..2008 unc. set. The only negative that I encountered was the unbelievable traffic snarls driving to the Convention Center due to road constructions.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Not much to add that has not been mentioned, Went up Friday and went right to my area --- the budget section and started my hunt for what I was looking for. In the past as a Kennedy collector I would never find anything at a show like this but now I was on the hunt for PCGS MS65 ( non FBL ) Franklins. Will I found a few ( to many ) and made a list to come back and look at later and trim the list down. It was nice to hunt and find something vice just going to look and walk out with nothing. I ended up getting a NICE 59 D for a good price, it's got a nice golden tone no black specks and a strong strike for that year. I headed off to the next dealer and picked up a nice 51 it also has nice toning with just a hint of dark toning. I showed him the 59D and was offered double what I had paid. Wow I had not even told him the price I had paid ( yes I still have it ) . Guess I did good on the 59D. Over all it was the best show I have been to in a long time. Dealers were all friendly and spoke to you. I did find one Kennedy that I needed for a upgrade but he wanted way more then what I was willing to pay and have seen them go for half of what he wanted. Got to meet up with a few members here and had a great day.
Dan
U S Navy Retired 22 years - ENC(SW) Ret. - Travling Nuclear Maintanence Contractor - Working Indian Point Nuclear plant Buchanan New York
Comments
The YN program is fantastic!!!!
I've never seen so many kids at a coin show!!!!!
<< <i>Goldbully, truly, that was the happiest result for me, as it is a passion. I have been in distress the last few days wondering where the younger generation was.. today they arrived and took over. Maybe it was the Wizard thing and the Eagle and Abe Lincoln... oh no, I forgot to mention Abe, camped out at Whitman( I guess their response to the Wizard-Whitman called out the heavy armor)-very good likeness, engaging fellow, I talked to him for a few minutes and he said the YNs were approaching him and seemed to be enjoying themselves. Respectfully, john >>
You are an amazing man....respectfully, GB
Talked to Dick Osburn around 2:30pm.... you know him as "Mr. CBH and LSH Guy Extraordinaire"
Dick said, "Today(Friday), was the best sales day ever" for him in all his years doing these shows!
Scarsdale, I didn't state the show was light. I stated it was comfortable to navigate and not a bumping contest. This is directly because it is in four halls, which is a nice change and encourages people to attend and stay. I am sorry if that part of my Report was not clear. Respectfully, John Curlis
My Registry Sets
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>One more thing.
Talked to Dick Osburn around 2:30pm.... you know him as "Mr. CBH and LSH Guy Extraordinaire"
Dick said, "Today(Friday), was the best sales day ever" for him in all his years doing these shows!
Maybe that's why i found absolutely nothing at his table
quarters and halves as well as Standing Liberty Quarters FH?????
Camelot
I immediately went to the world and ancient coin area and visited with Mark Teller and a dealer from Germany. I purchased coins from both of them including several pcgs proof 68 1 mark pieces, a stunning 1914 3 mark proof that was raw, and a seldom seen 1/2 and 1/4 pagoda in pcgs 63 from India. Did you know Mark can speak 5 different languages? ( no wonder he is a top foreign dealer). I tried to get in to see Karl Stephans but his table was to busy.
Next, I visited Andy Lustig. He had some terrific early gold from India ( circa 400 AD) and some other nice coins from purchases he made overseas. Seldom seen coins but I only bought a raw circ higher grade columbian 1835 8 reales.
I then went to Mike Dunigan's table. Mike is an authority on coins of Mexico and has co authored Resplandores, an indispensible book for serious Cap and Rays 8 reales enthusiasts. I bought my second copy of this book and he autographed it for me. I also purchased from him a nice original 1839 Mo M 8 reales raw. He guaranteed it would be slabbed. I like dealers like that who sell raw coins who stand behind their coins. He also authenticated an NGC 64 1834/3 mexican 8 reales piece I had bought in Chicago and he said it was the nicest of that date he had seen in 20 years ( his book says it rare). He offered to buy it but I like these coins and I politely said it was not for sale.
I then moved to the PCGS booth and dropped off about 10 raw coins and submitted 3 crossovers, including an ICG ef 40 1916 d dime. I briefly said hello to Ron Guth and had a conversation with a woman who is designated to develop business from overseas. She must be doing a good job as the world coin submission turn time is extending. While at the PCGS tabe I briefly said hello to John Agre.
Next I went by Legends table. Now Laura Sperber is my hero, plain and simple. I begged her to show me some great coins for my consideration but this time around alas there was nothing that interested me. What I love about Laura Sperber is that she will tell you things like "this coin is not for you" or this coin has this problem ( and proceed to say something negative about a coin in her own inventory)
They do not come anymore honest than her, imo. She mentioned the coin market was in a state of confusion. I was not sure what she meant by that but I think it had to do with CAC taking hold in the market place.
As a side note the vast majority of coins I saw were not original. Many are in slabs. I think those coins that are original with eye appeal will continue to appreciate.
I then took a break and went and viewed coins in the Signature auction. I bought the 1802/1 dollar pcgs ef 45 CAC and was happy to pay the premium for the originality. I did not stay for the whole auction Wednesday evening but as always enjoyed the Heritage buffet.
Thursday I began with viewing the more coins from the Heritage auction. Among others, I think I bought the pcgs 66 1893 2 1/2 liberty gold.
I really think the later dated coins in this series ( 1880's thru 1907 in 65 and above) are undervalued. Not enough collectors I guess.
My next stop when the bourse opened was Goldberg's. They had some really nice coins coming up for sale in Long Beach including a true for the grade 1794 pcgs vf dollar. ( unlike the NGC vf graded one in the ANA auction). I met Dr Hesselgesser at their booth. He had on display his bust dollar collection as well as some duplicates for sale. Really some amazing coins and an interesting fellow. I also spoke with Ira Goldberg ( I think he is still glowing from the Millenia sale or maybe its me). I asked him his thoughts about world coins and he suggested it is burgeoning. He specifically indicated growing popularity among collectors of underappreciated and relatively low priced spanish american coins that circulated freely as legal tender in the US until 1850.
Next I went by Angel Dees but could not come to terms on a choice 1921 slq. I also stopped by Scarsdale who among other things had a nice assortment of foreign gold. Their grades were guaranteed by (wings) a group similar to the purposes of CAC but are world coin specialists. I have never heard of them. I did pick up a very nice 1869 dollar from Grant Campbell in pcgs au 55 OGH and paid about 3 1/2 times price guide. I did not get to see every table but briefly said hello or saw Julian, DH, Steve Ivy, QDB, Mike Printz, 'first shot Harry L" and other long time professionals of this 'hobby'. I also briefly chatted with some exceptional advanced collectors with some of the finest world crown collections in the world.
The last coin I bought on the bourse was a Bechtler 134 grains 5 dollar gold piece graded pcgs 58. It looked nice and original. It was the first pioneer gold piece I have ever purchased. ( from National Gold Exchange). I then stopped by Dick Osborn's table and though I did not see anything of interest, I overheard him saying how tight professional grading has become. It needs too , imo.
I then made one more pass at the platinum auction sale and believe I ultimately was the underbidder on the 1839 pcgs red booby head large cent. Really a nice coin.
Again, I think coins with eye appealing originalty are still underpriced as fewer and fewer are around. I also think interest in world coins are growing among US dealers and collectors based on what I saw and heard.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Thanks charley.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
When I search through Heritage's list of unsold coins, it strikes me that compared to the coins sold, a much larger fraction of the unsold coins are NGC coins. In other words, it looks like PCGS encapsulated coins are "easier" to sell than NGC encapsulated coins. Does this casual observation agree with what you see at the auction?
That's a reasonable assessment but not always. In this case there were a fair number of NGC super graded coins that did not meet reserve. But in the case of that 1838 half dime fetching $37K, it made no difference that it was in an NGC holder (in this particular auction). Next time out it could be different.
It's true that the same NGC coin, when placed in the same PCGS holder (same grade) will bring 5-20% more in many cases. PCGS coin still appear to be more liquid. It did unnerve me a bit when I showed what is arguably the best MS67 no motto seated half (in any holder) to a very sharp dealer. His reply was that it needed to be in PCGS plastic to bring all the money.
roadrunner
Dan
">Franklin Halves
">Kennedy Halves