Anyone else agree???

chrisadkins · July 21, 2008 11:49AM

If you send 50 coins into pcgs, ngc, anacs, etc... as opposed to 5 coins you will likely receive better grades on average when sending in 50 coins as opposed to 5. Do most of the seasoned submitters agree with this? In addition, a customer who sends in hundreds of coins a year is more likely to get better grades than someone who sends in 10 or 20 a year. Agreed? Finally, if you are a big customer and there is a debate between a coin being a 65 or 66 the big customer is more likely to get the benefit of the doubt over the little customer who submits 10 or 20 coins a year. Am I right?

I believe all the grading services have to balance between taking care of their customers against accurately grading in order to maintain their reputation. I believe that someone who submits hundreds of coins a year is considered a valuable customer to any grading service and they are more likely to receive higher grades than someone submitting a few coins a year. This logically makes sense because I'm sure all grading services fear of losing their top customers to other grading services and therefore try to balance giving out generous grades and maintaining their reputation at the same time.

Robb · July 21, 2008 11:52AM

Supposedly, the individual grader has no idea who submitted the coin nor if the next coin or the previous coin are part of the same order.

tmcsr69 · July 21, 2008 12:24PM

It doesn't sound logical to me. PCGS has a reputation to uphold and send out coins that are not consistently graded would hurt their image. I would agree that larger customers get better service, but not better grades.

OPA · July 21, 2008 12:48PM

<< It doesn't sound logical to me. PCGS has a reputation to uphold and send out coins that are not consistently graded would hurt their image. I would agree that larger customers get better service, but not better grades. >>

Your large customers also receive a discount on their grading fees (bulk), but better grades...very unlikely. The graders don't know whose submission they are grading.

Bear · July 21, 2008 1:07PM

Whenever my coins come back from pcgs, they always seem to

have jelly on them. You don't think that the graders are eating

Je.........no, I guess they wouldn't be eating those while grading,

would they?

Rollerman · July 21, 2008 1:07PM

I have had two submissions, one was 5 Morgans (all purchased raw as high end 64's that had a chance to upgrade) and they came back as 65's.

The 2nd submission was just two Morgans, purchased with the same kind of logic, they were sandwiched in with another dealer submission of 20 coins and they came back a 65 and a 66. I really think if the coins are right, they will grade them with no regard to how many are in a submission - though my sampling is indeed quite small.
Pete

GoldenEyeNumismatics · July 21, 2008 1:22PM

No, no, no (to the questions you pose).

It simply doesn't work that way. graders aren't checking every submission for that submitters past activity, nor is his leniency altered by how many coins are in the submission.

pennyannie · July 21, 2008 1:42PM

If you think they do not know who the big submitters are you never have done business with a large corporation. Sales rep probably spend quite a bit of the day hanging out with the graders.

notwilight · July 21, 2008 1:55PM

Us bulk submitters often see individuals complaining about results when they sent in 10 coins and only got one 70 while we're getting 2-3% 70s on that coin in bulk submissions. We often think that with each bulk order we should send in 5 or 10 as collector's club members. So, no I don't agree but sometimes wonder if the truth is just the opposite. --Jerry

19Lyds · July 21, 2008 2:01PM

"If you send 50 coins into pcgs, ngc, anacs, etc... as opposed to 5 coins you will likely receive better grades on average when sending in 50 coins as opposed to 5. "

Absolutely not!

How about this: If you spend enough money making submissions, unless you are "made out of money", you only submit what you "know" will grade well and that which will be the best return on your submission investment. In other words, a good submitter, regardless of the quantity submitted, will always get good grades because he/she has a good eye for grading.

<< If you think they do not know who the big submitters are you never have done business with a large corporation. Sales rep probably spend quite a bit of the day hanging out with the graders. >>

If PCGS had "Sales Rep's" perhaps you could state this but they don't. Each submission is graded on the coins merits according to at least two "different" graders. The only "grader" that has final say is the finalizer and if he does not agree with the grade assigned, the coin goes back for grading. In other words, the finalizer cannot state what the coins grade should be, he can only agree or disagree with the assigned grade.

Doies PCGS know who the big submitters are? Sure! The receiving department knows who submitted what as the names are on the submission forms. The submission validaters know who they are as the names are on the submission forms. The data entry folks know who there are as they have to enter the submission into the system. The shipping department certainly knows who the submission is getting shipped to.

However, the graders DO NOT know what submission belongs to who. All they get is a number and a box of coins to grade.

What you are implying smacks of a lack of integrity on the part of PCGS or any large TPG and they simply cannot afford to run that type of business in that fashion. They would go out of business very quickly!

tahoe98 · July 22, 2008 5:37AM

<< Whenever my coins come back from pcgs, they always seem to

have jelly on them. You don't think that the graders are eating

Je.........no, I guess they wouldn't be eating those while grading,

would they? >>

......................

ricko · July 22, 2008 5:52AM

The hypothesis is plain wrong... the system is not set up so the graders know who the submitters are... and such behaviour would (if discovered) totally ruin a TPG. Cheers, RickO

Broadstruck · July 22, 2008 5:56AM

What are the odds and the spread... which bookie is covering submission bets

BECOKA · July 22, 2008 6:02AM

Nope, does not seem to matter how you send them. They just call them like they see them at that moment in time. I have tried.

stckplunge · July 22, 2008 6:16AM

Here is my opinion on this topic. I have sent over 3000 coins to NGC for grading. Every coin I send them is prescreened by me as to optimize the chance of getting pf or ms70s. I am very good at some of the coins and very poor at others. I average around 70% presidential proofs grading PF70 and almost 80% for silver eagle proofs. I have to work on my MS performance as I am only correct about 60% of the time for those types of coins (I am still learning). I have sent in bulk orders as well as orders with just 5 or so coins and here is my opinion. The smaller orders are more likely to receive consistent grades of ms/pf70s. When I send in bulk orders it just seems that they are not going to grade 100 coins in a row as perfect - for one reason or another (psychological) it has always been the case where my bulk orders come in at lower percentages of 70s than my multiple smaller orders. I guess if I were grading 100 coins and the first 50 were 70s, I may ask myself "come on - all of these cant possibly be 70s - can they?" If I have 5 coins, it may be easier to accept that all 5 are 70s.

Just my opinion on the state of a grader's psyche

Jeff

WTCG · July 22, 2008 6:23AM

<< If you send 50 coins into pcgs, ngc, anacs, etc... as opposed to 5 coins you will likely receive better grades on average when sending in 50 coins as opposed to 5. Do most of the seasoned submitters agree with this? In addition, a customer who sends in hundreds of coins a year is more likely to get better grades than someone who sends in 10 or 20 a year. Agreed? Finally, if you are a big customer and there is a debate between a coin being a 65 or 66 the big customer is more likely to get the benefit of the doubt over the little customer who submits 10 or 20 coins a year. Am I right?

I believe all the grading services have to balance between taking care of their customers against accurately grading in order to maintain their reputation. I believe that someone who submits hundreds of coins a year is considered a valuable customer to any grading service and they are more likely to receive higher grades than someone submitting a few coins a year. This logically makes sense because I'm sure all grading services fear of losing their top customers to other grading services and therefore try to balance giving out generous grades and maintaining their reputation at the same time. >>

I disagree with this observation. Ask the guys who submit 2000 or more coins for Walkthrough service and in turn get back all but a few coins returned at the same or lower grades than their grades prior to resubmission.

Coins are graded on their invidual merits and submission orders are graded anonymously. If volume counts then most dealers would submit through the bulk services.

WTCG · July 22, 2008 6:27AM

<< If you think they do not know who the big submitters are you never have done business with a large corporation. Sales rep probably spend quite a bit of the day hanging out with the graders. >>

The grading companies know who the big submitters are, but that does not mean they receive preferrential grades nor does it mean that the graders know which coins they are grading belong to those large submitters.

Anyone else agree???

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