Grade Revealed -- 1897-O ICG AU-58 Morgan Dollar -- Post Your Comments & Observations

Stuart · July 4, 2008 2:57AM

Welcome to this Independence Day episode of the grading reality show Guess the Grade.

I invite you to guess the grade of this 1897-O Morgan Dollar by voting in the poll, and also encourage you to please post your grading criteria, comments and observations to keep this thread both lively and active.

1897-O Morgan Dollar -- Guess the Grade

Steve27 · July 4, 2008 3:32AM

Typical weak strike O-Mint coin, limiting its grade to MS64.

Meltdown · July 4, 2008 3:35AM

I agree with the above 64 assesment, but the strike looks better than average for an O mint in my opinion.
The hair & ear are certainly flat, but the reverse eagle looks pretty well defined.

DoctorPaper · July 4, 2008 3:40AM

Typical O Morgan. I thought it had average marks, but lowish luster. Gave it 63.

bigmansam88 · July 4, 2008 3:43AM

I voted 63 because there is a little too much chatter for it it get a 64.

Cool die crack along the word "united" on the reverse.

rhedden · July 4, 2008 3:49AM

This one should not go higher than 62 at PCGS. The fields are lightly abraded, the strike is soft/typical of the issue, and the luster is subdued. Because there is some friction on the breast, which may or may not be from circulation, I'll bet that it's an AU58 if it's encased in a PCGS holder. I would also grade it AU58 if raw. I do like the look of the coin for an 1897-O, as an unmolested example of a condition rarity.

For the 1886-O, 1896-O, and 1897-O dates, 99% of "BU looking" coins are actually slider AU58s, so these are not something you should buy raw at a coin show as "BU", unless you enjoy inflicting financial misery upon yourself. These dates are among the traps in the Morgan dollar series that have burned a lot of new collectors.

coinbuf · July 4, 2008 4:07AM

I voted AU58 due to the look of the fields, thay have that "grayish" and abraded look that allways gets a 58 grade. Its a difficult date/mm to grade as its most often seen with low luster and weak strikes are the norm.

derryb · July 4, 2008 4:09AM

MS 62

Rampage · July 4, 2008 4:17AM

I went for AU58 as well, due to the way the fields look, plus the weak strike. If the fields were icer, and the luster brighter, I would have gone MS62 due to the chattiness throughout.

MFH · July 4, 2008 4:19AM

<< <i>Typical O Morgan. I thought it had average marks, but lowish luster. Gave it 63. >>

MirroredBucks · July 4, 2008 5:13AM

I believe this is an AU-58 with rub on the high point of the cheek and the eagle's breast. There is also evidence of circulation in the fields.

segoja · July 4, 2008 5:22AM

Mirroredbucks is right.

Wear = AU If the coin were UNC MS62 at best. The eye appeal is well below average due to strike luster and overall color.

The wear is minimla hence AU58 (Super Slider)

Stuart · July 4, 2008 6:53AM

Thanks to all for your very intresting and insightful observations and comments so far...

bidask · July 4, 2008 6:59AM

ziggy29 · July 4, 2008 7:16AM

This is one of those condition rarity Morgans in MS, which means they have to be "all there" and then some to get into an MS holder. I'm betting PCGS would more often than not find a reason to put this into a 58 holder, even as I suspect a similar '97-P would "market grade" at least 63 and "traces of rub" would be ignored in a way that wouldn't be ignored for a '97-O.

coinkat · July 4, 2008 8:10AM

SirAnthonyAC · July 4, 2008 1:46PM

That year and mint mark is always a bit soft on the strike and I don't see any wear at all on the high points so , I can't see it as AU.

I'll go with an MS63, there are bag marks in the field but not enough to be a 60, 61, or even a 62... so I'll toss a 63 at your coin. I think 64s and 65s are a bit cleaner but, it could well grade 64 as well.

Congrats on a sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet edition to your collection!

greghansen · July 4, 2008 6:33PM

I graded it AU58 as well and agree with the other AU posters who noted that they were mostly persuaded by the condition and presence of 'circulation chatter' in the fields.

morgansforever · July 4, 2008 10:00PM

Weak strike, which is common with O mint dollars. I'll go with 63, IMHO.

Scott

Stuart · July 5, 2008 2:07AM

I will post the grade of thie 1897-O Morgan Dollar later today, after this thread sinks into page 3 forum oblivion...

messydesk · July 5, 2008 2:17AM

I went with 58. This is one of those dates, along with 83-S, 84-S, 94-O, 96-O, and a few others, that takes a huge jump when the grades top 60, so you're not going to see a slider in an MS holder. The upside is that very attractive AU58 coins are a good value. The fields are lightly abraided, and two spots I look at for rub show that gray color that I associate with broken luster. First is the tip of the bust, second is the "knuckles" of the eagle's left (viewer's right) talon. Strike is average for a 97-O. I like it.

coinsarefun · July 5, 2008 2:21AM

I threw my vote in there for 63. It looks by the voting that its either AU58 or 63.
To me the feilds look to clear to be a 58.

Stefanie

gsa1fan · July 5, 2008 2:26AM

MS63 weak strike-lacking luster-busy cheek.JMO!

HighRelief · July 5, 2008 2:29AM

I like it as AU58

Nice one Stuart

garsmith · July 5, 2008 2:32AM

to much chatter and low luster; I go MS63

roadrunner · July 5, 2008 4:01AM

61.......

Not likely that Stuart would have paid 62 or 63 money for such a key date unless it looked to be 64. And these cost a lot once you are in 63 land. 64's get you near 5 figures.

I'd vote for 61 as too many people have picked the 58 grade. The has a bit of scuffiness in the fields but no obvious "flat" rubbing not attributable to strike. The discoloration on the highpoints is always a concern. Could go either way. Then again, I'd only be a buyer of said coin if graded 58 or lower.

roadrunner

vplite · July 5, 2008 5:26AM

I see it as a good coin, but not a great coin that is up to 64 standards for this date and mint.. Just comparing it to my grading set I see it as a 63. I am not good enough to detect wear from a picture. I'm betting it looks better in hand. Guess: MS63.

dizzlecc · July 5, 2008 9:20AM

It looks like it has a lot going on so I would claim it as an au 58 coin.

09sVDB · July 5, 2008 9:43AM

AU58

relicsncoins · July 5, 2008 9:58AM

Due to the large jump between 62 and 63 in price, TPG's will make sure it's all there to justify the money. I think the hits are on par for a 63, but the luster holds it back. Therefor I think they went with 62, and so will I.

JJ

TennesseeDave · July 5, 2008 11:01AM

Super slider AU-58,I had an 86-0 that looked almost identical to that and it slabbed as a 58 at Pcgs,I cracked it out and sent it to Anacs and got a 62.It was the same coin,but I was able to get a lot more $'s out of it in the Anacs holder.

bennybravo · July 5, 2008 12:44PM

Going by those pictures, I'd also guess that it's MS, but I think the lack of luster is going to keep the grade way down on such a tough date in mint state. Since it looks a bit too clean to call a 60, I'd say they gave it a 61.If the luster is a little better in hand, maybe a 62. It looks like a nice distraction free example though.

PatchFanatic · July 5, 2008 1:00PM

Voted MS63. I didn't take into account that this would be graded tougher than common date Morgans.

DoubleEagle59 · July 5, 2008 1:14PM

ms62

options26 · July 5, 2008 1:14PM

I voted 63, however I bet it's in a 58 holder. I would buy those all day long.

options26 · July 5, 2008 1:16PM

I should also add that I have a 58 that looks just like it, and I swear it's a 63, just a slightly weak strike.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · July 5, 2008 1:25PM

au58

prooflike · July 5, 2008 3:48PM

It's one of those AU58/MS62 coins... could go either way & can't tell from that image.

Stuart · July 6, 2008 2:54AM

This is a real Super-Slider with attractive light beige original skin toning and MS63 overall eye appeal, although technically an AU-58 due to a very slight amount of light circulation hairline scratches in the unprotected areas of the coin fields.

After carefully visually inspecting this coin, I can see no actual circulation wear and no apparent luster breaks on the high points of either the obverse or the reverse.

The astute forum members split their vote evenly between MS-63 and AU-58 as follows:

MS-65 or Higher :-) 3 (votes) 3.66 (%)
MS-64 6 (votes) 7.32 (%)
MS-63 24 (votes) 29.27 (%)
MS-62 9 (votes) 10.98 (%)
MS-61 5 (votes) 6.10 (%)
MS-60 1 (votes) 1.22 (%)
AU-58 23 (votes) 28.05 (%)
AU-55 or Lower :-( 11 (votes) 13.41 (%)

Grade Revealed: 1897-O ICG AU-58 Morgan Dollar

ziggy29 · July 6, 2008 3:11AM

Bottom line, IMO, at least for Morgans: When the grade feels like a "coin toss" between 58 and 63 and it's a common date in MS, it's probably going to be a 63. If it's a condition rarity in MS, it's almost always going to be a 58.

DoubleEagle59 · July 6, 2008 3:17AM

goes to show you that from a picture, grading a coin that is between au58 and ms62 is the absolute hardest thing to do.

ziggy29 · July 6, 2008 5:25AM

<< <i>goes to show you that from a picture, grading a coin that is between au58 and ms62 is the absolute hardest thing to do. >>

Not if it's a condition rarity Morgan. That will make the usually foggy 58/62-63 line into a nearly sure-thing 58.

Grade Revealed -- 1897-O ICG AU-58 Morgan Dollar -- Post Your Comments &amp; Observations

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