Options
Just updated prices on my ASE Unc. collection - NOT pretty!!
Goldbully
Posts: 18,500 ✭✭✭✭✭
Has anyone noticed the drastic drop in MS69 ASE's??????
Some of the prices have been cut in half.
Not sure when this happened.
Wished I had sold last year!!!!!!
Your thoughts most welcomed!!!!!
Some of the prices have been cut in half.
Not sure when this happened.
Wished I had sold last year!!!!!!
Your thoughts most welcomed!!!!!
0
Comments
To support LordM's European Trip, click here!
<< <i>That stuff was all made "yesterday" on modern, high power presses, and was never intended for circulation. Furthermore, original green monster boxes were put away by the thousands, meaning that the number of slabbed 69's on the PCGS pop report is likely less than 5% of the total number of 69's that exist in the world. Add all these factors together, and its truly a wonder that a 69 commands ANY premium at all! >>
You are correct.....no more ASE's for me!!!!!
Time for a new bullion coin IMHO.
Not one PR70 reverse proof....a PR70 virtually insures a reasonable profit.
The submitter did receive an MS70 Unc........anyone knoe what they are bringing today??
PCGS Link
Would I sell them just because the market prices got cut in half? No. It's a collection, just like any other. The other commenters aren't wrong in that there will probably be enough of these in high grades to diminish any numismatic premium for a long time, maybe 50 years or more.
That's no reason to sell an impressive collection, imo. As the series continues, there will be fewer complete collections, and this fact is accentuated by these types of market swings. When the prices drop, some people are motivated to sell them off and stop collecting them. People who have somewhat unrealistic expectations about bullion-in-plastic as the basis for valuation are being lured by the wrong motives. It's the true collectors who will benefit in the long run, but in this case it is definitely a long run.
Now, if you want to benefit from buying silver bullion, leave the plastic behind and get serious about it. Stop paying a fee to have obviously nice bullion coins formally certified, unless you intend to keep it as a collection which can be nicely-displayed as an array of plastic & coins.
Not meaning to stir the pot, but those are my thoughts.
I knew it would happen.
the difference in price between a 69 and a 70 is just stupid.
seriously. stupid is the only word i can dig up to explain it.
the difference in price between a 69 and a 70 is just stupid.
seriously. stupid is the only word i can dig up to explain it.
Only as overpriced as Morgans that jump by 500% from MS-64 to MS-65.
Stupid isn't the word I'd use for the desires of a true collector. Irrational, maybe - but probably not stupid.
I knew it would happen.
It's a collection, prices go up and prices go down.
Hang on to your goods until silver hits its next spike, then sell. The question is though, when will that next spike occur and what will it peak at?
The name is LEE!
When I see a slabbed/graded ASE I think of Beanie Babies and Pet Rocks...
This "drop" in price is just a return to reality...
These pieces are simply very pretty, carefully made and handled...Bullion...now encased in plastic...
...and as common as tribbles...
There would most likely be MANY more in the Pop report...except that many, if not most, of the folks who buy ASEs regard them as what they are...pretty pieces of silver bullion...and don't need or wish to pay to have them slabbed/graded...
42/92
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I would rather have a Lance Armstrong than a First Strike.
Ok Cockney
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
...and as common as tribbles...
There would most likely be MANY more in the Pop report...except that many, if not most, of the folks who buy ASEs regard them as what they are...pretty pieces of silver bullion...and don't need or wish to pay to have them slabbed/graded...
On the contrary, I must observe that most Green Monster Boxes get broken up and sold as rolls. In time, the handling and distribution of these coins will take its toll. The holders of slabbed coins may have the last laugh, because the coins were placed in plastic early on.
Silver Eagles have a large collector base, which I believe will continue to grow. This set won't be as easy in the next 20 years as it has been for the past 20 years. That's the simple progression of all coin issues, in general terms.
Other factors, such as escalating silver prices could bring about further significant coin melts, and the millions of tribbles, as you called them - could very well become highly sought by a collector base that gets caught flat-footed, thinking them to be common.
I knew it would happen.
yup. classics fall into the same trap. look at that washington quarter
that sold for 100,000+ when you could buy the next grades down
and get almost the same quality for 1/10 the price. it is stupid. the
plastic influenced someone in strange ways. crack out the 66 and
several 65s and i bet people could not tell the difference between
the best three in most cases.
a true collector does not care about the plastic grade. they may buy
coins in plastic or raw.. but watching a price guide in the grades
69 and 70 is laughable.
look at the thread that popped up today where we have a gold bullion
round in a 69 slab that the collector thinks is a 67-68. sigh.
i have no beef against these coins/rounds/whatever but when you
can order from the mint and basically get the same quality as a graded
69 or 70... one really has to think critically about the whole game.
<< <i>Not an attack on the Modern folks...just my take on things...
When I see a slabbed/graded ASE I think of Beanie Babies and Pet Rocks...
This "drop" in price is just a return to reality...
These pieces are simply very pretty, carefully made and handled...Bullion...now encased in plastic...
...and as common as tribbles...
There would most likely be MANY more in the Pop report...except that many, if not most, of the folks who buy ASEs regard them as what they are...pretty pieces of silver bullion...and don't need or wish to pay to have them slabbed/graded... >>
I do disagree, though, with the invalid comparison of the Morgans from MS64 to MS65. There certainly are a lot of reasons for condition rarity in that series, most of it historical and politically based. In the case of ASEs, the only difference between a 69 and 70 is how generous the grader felt that day. And there's no history nor condition rarity in the ASE series. JMHO
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
<< <i>Has anyone noticed the drastic drop in MS69 ASE's??????
Some of the prices have been cut in half.
Not sure when this happened.
Wished I had sold last year!!!!!!
Your thoughts most welcomed!!!!!
Bullion pricing has increased so rapidly as to devastate the MS/PR69 bullion market. If you bought these bullion coins in 2006 or before then you are no doubt very happy. If you bought in 07 or 08 trying to make the same you are no doubt bitter and clinging to your religion and your guns. Don't try to cling to my guns as you might get lead poisoning.
The reality is that grade 69 bullion coins will NOT have any collectable value much above spot, maybe 10% at best, until 2010, due to current Democratic economic policies that have made coin collecting a more difficult hobby.
<< <i>... due to current Democratic economic policies that have made coin collecting a more difficult hobby. >>
Which party does the current president of 7-1/4 years belong to again?
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
some good posts from some good collectors on that thread.
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
I do disagree, though, with the invalid comparison of the Morgans from MS64 to MS65. There certainly are a lot of reasons for condition rarity in that series, most of it historical and politically based. In the case of ASEs, the only difference between a 69 and 70 is how generous the grader felt that day. And there's no history nor condition rarity in the ASE series. JMHO
I respectfully submit to you that the comparison is valid, as it pertains to pricing. There is as much history in the ASE Series as in the Morgan Series, only a bit more recent. Morgans were mass-produced in quantity in order to mollify Western mining interests, and not to meet circulation demand.
The Reagan Administration did us all a favor by making private ownership of precious metals mainstream again - allowing us to have a legitimate and reasonable means of dodging the government-created inflation mess that is upon us now. That was a very historical and prescient political gesture, by my reckoning - more so than the arbitrary over-production of Morgans which sat in bank vaults for decades and decades.
As to condition rarity in the ASE series - many "classics collectors" bemoan that very issue - in general, the condition of most ASEs far exceed the best BU or Proof conditions of most Morgans.
In my opinion, the elitist view tends towards Morgans because the "market makers" are heavily invested in them and they cannot find a way to corner the market in ASEs, like they already have in Morgans. It's a question of whose hype you want to believe. I think that your recent disappointment with ASE spotting has clouded your opinion negatively, but in the overall picture, the spotting issue might possibly continue to weed out the lesser specimens, making the pristine ones more valuable over times. It's unfortunate for you, but degradation happens, not just in ASEs but in all series.
I knew it would happen.
I respectfully disagree with your premise that the ASE series has "as much history". Where? When? The history with the Morgans does include your comment regarding the mass production, but you omitted the massive melts of same, the fact that they were not well received and some dates were not saved by collectors, the dates with extremely low mintages, etc. How does this compare with ASEs that are nothing more than beautiful bullion coins (business strike = bullion, proof = collector coin). When did they have mass meltings by the bag, pallet, ton?
As I said, I loved the ASEs as it they are well designed and beautiful. Based on the bidding war for some of my Eagles, there's no doubt a "market" is still there. The spotting problem is the crux of my issue with the series. US Mint's fault? PCGS's slabbing process? The debate on that isn't settled yet.
Market hype for Morgans? Perhaps to a certain degree, but it just might be because collectors like me have had it with the modern Mint products and are returning to a wonderful classic series that has always been popular. And now with the VAM studies, it's produced another sub-set collectible.
So, Morgan collectors are "elitist"? I didn't know that. How so? It's an affordable series for the most part with some beautiful MS coins available now that will make them seem like bargains in five years.
The spots on the ASEs will "weed out the lesser specimens"? It's just a matter of time before even the pristine specimens develop them.
I think the Crazy Old Man From Missouri hit the nail on the head. Devalue the series due to the high cost of returns.
JM2Cents
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
As I noted above: "The Reagan Administration did us all a favor by making private ownership of precious metals mainstream again - allowing us to have a legitimate and reasonable means of dodging the government-created inflation mess that is upon us now. That was a very historical and prescient political gesture" That's history, whether you recognize it or not.
you omitted the massive melts of same, the fact that they were not well received and some dates were not saved by collectors, the dates with extremely low mintages, etc. How does this compare with ASEs that are nothing more than beautiful bullion coins (business strike = bullion, proof = collector coin). When did they have mass meltings by the bag, pallet, ton?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my recollection is that Morgans weren't melted en mass along with the other 90% silver in 1980. Maybe the culls and AG coins, but not that many in comparison to the other denominations. There may have been some other liquidations of them, but how is that "history" any more so than Reagan's authorization of the American Eagle Program, 20 years after the 1964 demonetization?
Market hype for Morgans? Perhaps to a certain degree, but it just might be because collectors like me have had it with the modern Mint products and are returning to a wonderful classic series that has always been popular. And now with the VAM studies, it's produced another sub-set collectible.
Let's review. Morgans have been the most hyped of any U.S. coin in numismatic history, especially since the advent of TPGs in the 1980s. If you like them, they are great coins and it is very cool to have a nice set. And VAMs, again - if it's your cup of tea, knock yourself out, but don't try to tell me that the VAM subset is somehow "historical." If you think so, please explain exactly how a VAM coin made history. I'm not opposed to learning something new.
Just because a coin is over 100 years old, doesn't make it historical. If something happened to that specific coin that has been documented, or if there is a special history surrounding a year of issue, a mintmark, or even a whole series - then it is historical. The history of Morgans originated because Western Silver mines lobbied Congress to support their industry. That's history I suppose, but it's not particularly momentous history in that it changed something about our way of life - it's really just old-time politics.
So, Morgan collectors are "elitist"? I didn't know that. How so? It's an affordable series for the most part with some beautiful MS coins available now that will make them seem like bargains in five years.
I didn't say that Morgan collectors are "elitist." I said, "In my opinion, the elitist view tends towards Morgans because the "market makers" are heavily invested in them and they cannot find a way to corner the market in ASEs, like they already have in Morgans. It's a question of whose hype you want to believe. I think that your recent disappointment with ASE spotting has clouded your opinion negatively, but in the overall picture, the spotting issue might possibly continue to weed out the lesser specimens, making the pristine ones more valuable over times. It's unfortunate for you, but degradation happens, not just in ASEs but in all series."
What that means is that elitists will favor Morgans over ASEs, but it doesn't mean that all Morgan collectors are elitist.
I was referencing the purveyors of Morgans, who 40 years ago started making the Sheldon scale into a money maker, along with VAMS, PLs, DMPLs, and plastic. All of these changes gave advantages to dealers on the front end, just as CAC gives the initial advantage to those who stock the initial inventories of them.
While I don't have a problem with marketers who try to create a brand identity, in the coin collecting world it's a little different. In this hobby, it involves gain and loss of real money. When product differentiation is used in the extreme, to hype a minor facet of a coin in order to magnify it's perceived value by a factor of 100, then something is amiss. Elitism is used as one of these methods of hyping, and that's what I object to.
Collectors are much more likely to be the victims of elitism, than the perpetrators of it. Most collectors are quite far from being elitists, imo. The difference is that collectors are spending hard-earned money on something that gives them satisfaction, and there's nothing elitist about that.
Added: chiefbob, I don't collect ASEs or Morgans, and I wasn't taking a shot at you personally for deciding to get into Morgans and to liquidate your ASEs. There is a contingent who has nothing good to say about Moderns, and my comments are intended to place Modern collecting on par with classics collecting, because in my mind there is absolutely no distinction between Morgans and Silver Eagles, other than the marketing and the marketers involved.
I knew it would happen.
Good discussion, jmski52. BTW, I liked Reagan and I like being able to own bullion of all kinds and shapes. I just don't like MILK SPOTS!
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
<< <i>even a PCGS ms70 with a eye noticable hit on it. >>
Send it in under the grade guarantee?
Buy em for what they are..........
<< <i>"Maybe" because PCGS has had so many spotted coins returned that they have had to pay out on, they have decided to lower there values to save them money. Bottom line is that prices are determined at the time of sale-not by any guide. If enough collector's hold on, the value will still be there. >>
I've almost completed my set of ASE in ms69. I paid a little over melt for certified coins in NGC and PCGS holders. A few of the coins I've purchased, have since developed spots in both types of holders.
The Mint is throwing enough diversity into this series to keep it interesting, new varieties of the 08-W's being the most recent.
JUST HAVE FUN COLLECTING
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
.
Eventually, enough coins were submitted that MS-65 dollars became relatively common, and the price dropped.
.
The same has happened to silver eagles.
.
TD
<< <i>Its a Bullion Play.......................Nothing more, Nothing Less............... Buy em for what they are.......... >>
yep. it could also be argued that almost everything the Mint sells is bullion. slabbed eagles are basically slabbed silver rounds.
<< <i>A young man (21 years old) that worked for a local coin store, was hired by NGC a little over a year ago on some type of intern program. Within 2 weeks they hired him full time and forgot the intern deal. He spent the 1st 4 months on ASE's. He said he hopes he never sees another as long as he lives. Maybe he graded some of yours with the hits. He was a rookie. They spend about 3 seconds grading each one. How ever long it takes to turn it over.
so much for expert grading in that area. one has to wonder how many other
areas are being graded by young pups whose only experience was working
at a coin store which means very little.
<< <i>
<< <i>A young man (21 years old) that worked for a local coin store, was hired by NGC a little over a year ago on some type of intern program. Within 2 weeks they hired him full time and forgot the intern deal. He spent the 1st 4 months on ASE's. He said he hopes he never sees another as long as he lives. Maybe he graded some of yours with the hits. He was a rookie. They spend about 3 seconds grading each one. How ever long it takes to turn it over.
so much for expert grading in that area. one has to wonder how many other
areas are being graded by young pups whose only experience was working
at a coin store which means very little. >>
Brings up a TPG grading process question: I thought all coins graded go through a second QC or final grader check? Do modern coins, particularly ASE bullion rounds, also get a final grade check? Or is the final grader only seeing certain categories?
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>A young man (21 years old) that worked for a local coin store, was hired by NGC a little over a year ago on some type of intern program. Within 2 weeks they hired him full time and forgot the intern deal. He spent the 1st 4 months on ASE's. He said he hopes he never sees another as long as he lives. Maybe he graded some of yours with the hits. He was a rookie. They spend about 3 seconds grading each one. How ever long it takes to turn it over.
so much for expert grading in that area. one has to wonder how many other
areas are being graded by young pups whose only experience was working
at a coin store which means very little. >>
Brings up a TPG grading process question: I thought all coins graded go through a second QC or final grader check? Do modern coins, particularly ASE bullion rounds, also get a final grade check? Or is the final grader only seeing certain categories? >>
good question.......Oh RickO????