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Just Another Alert to More Fraudulent Auctions for Mantles, Gehrigs, etc.
JackWESQ
Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
Hey guys, I just wanted to alert you to more fraudulent auctions (or rather BINs) for Mantles, Gehrigs, etc.
1956 Topps Mantle
1951 Bowman Mantle
1934 Goudey Gehrig
/s/ JackWESQ
1956 Topps Mantle
1951 Bowman Mantle
1934 Goudey Gehrig
/s/ JackWESQ
0
Comments
"I'm shocked this one is not graded higher."
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>Where's the fraud? Are they in fake slabs? Nothing stands out at me screaming fraud. >>
No wonder you got burned on that Ruth. email that seller, I guarantee he can get it in a PSA holder for you. If you still don't know what fraud is going down here, I will give you a hint.....FAMOUS SNOWMAN
You can read more about the cards at N54. The
scamsters have run ads in California, North and
South Carolina. In most of the transactions,
payments have been sent to persons with a
Hispanic name.
The FBI is aware of the circumstance.
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You may be right.
One thing we need to keep in mind is that VERY FEW victims
of the CL scams have come forward. Most folks, realizing they
have been burned, remain quiet and attempt to pass the pain
onto the next buyer.
The scams were designed to appeal to dealers, who could be
convinced they were stealing the cards at the prices offered.
Most such buyers are too "smart" to go public after they find
out they were scammed. That sad fact poisoned the stamp
collecting pond, and it can do the same thing to cards.
I remember reading an interview with a De Beers VP on why they were so interested in an man made diamond process (for large stones) that was being developed in Russia. He said that if 1% of the diamonds on the market were found not be natural, the entire market for diamonds would go down.
PSA should be more aggressive about this. Their name is being directly affected by these scams.
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Absolutely!!!!!!
Ditto, PCGS.
In my opinion, as a CLCT shareholder, the corporation is taking
a VERY "Non-Tylenol" approach to the situation. Public statements
by a corporation about this kind of problem do NOT scare people off;
they CALM people and give them continued confidence in the brand.
The silence is not in the long term best interest of ANYBODY.
But, I can see how someone might not take the time to look that closely if not buying but just reading this thread and being confused.
We can all stay humble on this - no one here is that good.
We're all friends here - right?
mike
See the Gehrig auction.
A: Not sure who this Jackass JackWESQ is posting a nonsense message on a forum but rest assured that all of my graded cards listed are not fraudulent and are professionally graded by PSA. I've been in the business for over 25 years and been selling on EBAY for alomst 10 so e-mail me directly with questions. Anthony Luzzi
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He probably would have been better served by asking for clarification as to why
the listings were viewed as problematic.
<< <i>Q: Hi your auction was referenced on the PSA Board: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=651156 not sure why - just wondered if you wanted to check out the thread? mike Apr-11-08
A: Not sure who this Jackass JackWESQ is posting a nonsense message on a forum but rest assured that all of my graded cards listed are not fraudulent and are professionally graded by PSA. I've been in the business for over 25 years and been selling on EBAY for alomst 10 so e-mail me directly with questions. Anthony Luzzi
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He probably would have been better served by asking for clarification as to why
the listings were viewed as problematic. >>
I contacted the guy to see what he had to say or would he like to come on.
Perhaps he bought these and sees them as perfectly good?
I have to say - his response was not "friendly"
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That is TOTALLY possible. I might even say "likely."
As previously noted, the CL scam was designed to make honest
dealers think they were getting a great deal on merch that they
could resell at a profit.
While some victims caught on after examining the slabs and cards,
it is totally reasonable to think that MANY victims still think the items
are problem free.
Not every reseller of the cards is trying to pass on the problem, but
some are.
<< <i>"Perhaps he bought these and sees them as perfectly good?"
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That is TOTALLY possible. I might even say "likely."
As previously noted, the CL scam was designed to make honest
dealers think they were getting a great deal on merch that they
could resell at a profit.
While some victims caught on after examining the slabs and cards,
it is totally reasonable to think that MANY victims still think the items
are problem free.
Not every reseller of the cards is trying to pass on the problem, but
some are. >>
Perhaps it's time for the grading companies to join the 21st century and come up with a holder which somehow "voids" itself when opened - so it can't be reclosed with a fake card in it?
Just a thought.
He's not replied - perhaps he's reviewing them as we speak?
I - personally - don't believe that someone with his ebay FB and numbers would risk a business screwing people a la WIWAG.
Just my opinion.
mike
<< <i>Where's the fraud? Are they in fake slabs? Nothing stands out at me screaming fraud. >>
The fonts on the flips are wrong.
1. Genuine slabs, genuine flips, fake cards.
2. Genuine slabs, fake flips w/real cert #s, real cards that grade way below the flip notation.
In every instance, the scam only works because the slab is too easy
to open and reseal. An easy, but somewhat "expensive" fix is available.
A hairline of clear-drying superglue is really the best way to go; if
the slab is opened, it will never go back together.
The Chinese are likely preparing a good sized hit using fake slabs/flips/cards.
You can read about how they are in the process of destroying TPG coins
on the PCGS board, and in the coin-forum of the New York Times owned
about.com.
For the record, I wouldn't have touched any of those cards on e-bay simply due to the poor quality of the card pictures. You see Allen, I'm no dummy, I look at the card I'm buying first and foremost instead of blindly buying a card based on the number some grading company assigned to it. If the seller doesn't provide high quality scans then there's no dealing with me. I don't buy cards that have been photographed as opposed to scanned.
"Molon Labe"
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Absolutely.
I - and MANY other folks - are sick of the notion that white-collar crime
"doesn't really hurt anybody."
Start executing the scumbags; the business climate would change
overnight.
The ChiComs are scum, but at least they have the good sense to
know that popping caps in the heads of financial criminals deters
their behavior.
Net 54 Thread
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Take a look at these; noted on N54.
EBAY#
320239036338
56 topps=water damage
34 goudey=water damage
Imo the 56 & 34 had a bad doctor!! But the 51 is..LOL u gotta be kidding me !! This card needs to be sold out of a holder stating the damage.
If somebody gives you a good-faith heads-up about one of your listings,
kill the listing and get to the bottom of the problem. Leaving a problem
listing up, will make you look really bad.
Prepare to see more and more super-tight scans on high-dollar slabbed cards.
The technique is designed to hide the frosty, screwdriver mangled edges of
the slabs.
The slabs in such scans are perfectly framed; the scans come a tiny mm over the slab edges.
If you cannot see the WHOLE slab, be cautious.
<< <i>The CL scam had/has two basic variations.
1. Genuine slabs, genuine flips, fake cards.
2. Genuine slabs, fake flips w/real cert #s, real cards that grade way below the flip notation.
In every instance, the scam only works because the slab is too easy
to open and reseal. An easy, but somewhat "expensive" fix is available.
A hairline of clear-drying superglue is really the best way to go; if
the slab is opened, it will never go back together.
The Chinese are likely preparing a good sized hit using fake slabs/flips/cards.
You can read about how they are in the process of destroying TPG coins
on the PCGS board, and in the coin-forum of the New York Times owned
about.com. >>
I'm in the plastics business and to knock off the molded holders used by PSA, SGC, BGS, etc. is as simple as it gets. Now with that said, it would not be cheap(not even close) and it is illegal and unethical, so yes I would imagine a Chinese company has probably (99.9% sure) already done it.
Thanks Storm and Jackwesq, and thanks for nothin' Allen. We all don't have your Knowledge, so it is nice when somebody helps us out !!! Your attitude leaves a lot to be desired !!!
Neil
Perhaps he got stung and is just tryin to pass it on for whatever he can get? Who knows.
I like tryin to get these guys to come on here and defend their position.
Experienced, good sellers seem to almost always provide good scans of their items.
Unless I know the seller - for me - bad scan - I pass.
The problem? This will never end until the FBI takes this kind of thing as serious as they do crimes that happen in person. There's no difference between doing this and walking into a bank and holding it up.
mike
and this power seller must have gotten burned and now ...unknowingly passing on to someone else?
someone help clarify this mess...thanks!!
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
website, of course that was not the question I asked of him.
Steve
<< <i>Edited Post, Storm answered all of my questions at the same time I was typing this post.
For the record, I wouldn't have touched any of those cards on e-bay simply due to the poor quality of the card pictures. You see Allen, I'm no dummy, I look at the card I'm buying first and foremost instead of blindly buying a card based on the number some grading company assigned to it. If the seller doesn't provide high quality scans then there's no dealing with me. I don't buy cards that have been photographed as opposed to scanned. >>
Apparently you are since many noticed the problem, but not you, despite the poor quality of the card pictures.
http://www.fbi.gov/cyberinvest/cyberhome.htm
Complaints about internet scams can be filed at the Cyber-Crimes division of the FBI.
The FBI also has a white-collar crimes office, in SF. Their home page contains instructions
about filing complaints.
CLCT can play a more publicly active role by asking the Feds to help protect the corporation's
intellectual property.
CLCT should have joined EBAY's VERO program long ago. Membership would allow the VERO
reps to pull ALL PCGS and PSA fakes off the site within minutes of their being listed.
The VERO folks are constantly after me in fashion and electronics; they are over zealous, but
that is what the collectibles industry needs NOW.
NOTE: Counterfeit computer equipment, game consoles and music devices are all over EBAY.
The counterfeits are not detectable from the outside. The innards are different and they usually
only work for a couple of months. Target and WalMart are safe; EBAY, not so much.
website, of course that was not the question I asked of him."
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Not good.
The certs are usually going to match. That is the heart of the scam.
Consumers who knowingly pass on the junk are JUST as guilty as
the original scamsters. It is NOT OK to steal from people to recover
the money that was stolen from you. Victims of these scams have
good recourse with both criminal and civil remedies.
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The "truth" seems apparent when one looks at the slabs.
How many slabs does anybody here own that are so obviously
torn-up at the edges? ZERO. NONE. NADA.
and this power seller must have gotten burned and now ...unknowingly passing on to someone else?
Possibly knowing, maybe unknowingly.
Steve
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Once a seller is on notice of a problem, it is best for him
to simply pull the listings and ask PSA to take a good look.
This time he did answer my question.
My question was 'did you yourself have these cards graded or did you buy them
on the aftermarket?'
He said he already bought them graded.
I then replied that the slabs concerned me as they are tamper evident and these appear to have been tampered with.
Just because someone emails a seller and states an opinion does not make the seller a bad guy (if he does not take the advice)
I am not saying that this seller should not pull his auctions but at the same time just because some people THINK
that a slab has been tampered with does not mean we are correct too. (Even though it appears we are in this case)
JMO
Steve
<< <i>OK I have received another email from the seller.
This time he did answer my question.
My question was 'did you yourself have these cards graded or did you buy them
on the aftermarket?'
He said he already bought them graded.
I then replied that the slabs concerned me as they are tamper evident and these appear to have been tampered with.
Just because someone emails a seller and states an opinion does not make the seller a bad guy (if he does not take the advice)
I am not saying that this seller should not pull his auctions but at the same time just because some people THINK
that a slab has been tampered with does not mean we are correct too. (Even though it appears we are in this case)
JMO
Steve >>
Steve
Last nite he said this: I tried to but couldn't figure it out. This guy is a Jackass. I recently bought these and verified the Cert # on PSA website.
"I tried" means he tried to register to come on here and couldn't get an ID/password.
He also said the same thing - that he recently bought them. I returned a note and asked him if he bought them off craigslist?
For me, it's hard to tell if a flip is bad unless the scan is really good or the flip is really bad.
I think this appears to be a scam similar to wiwag?
When buying high dollar cards - it pays to buy from people ya know/trust IMO.
mike
I was just saying that in general, just because someone notifies a seller that
the slabs they have pictured LOOK funny does not mean that they are bad.
In this case I agree the seller by this time should think twice before
leaving these slabs up.
Steve
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I agree, "in general."
BUT, when two sites - filled with experienced folks - let me know that there might
be a problem, TRUST ME when I say: "My listings are KILLED, until I can get to
the bottom of the alleged problem."
Nobody here or at N54 knows the subject seller, nobody is a competitor trying to
mess up his listings, nobody is acting in bad faith, nobody is calling him a crook.
OTOH, let's not strain credulity. I am not a terribly smart person, but I know what
a messed-with slab looks like. IF I did not, I would be glad that somebody let me
know there was a problem. I would NOT argue with them and I would NOT let a
suspect listing run.
I am NOT saying the seller is knowingly doing anything wrong. I am saying that
the responsible/prudent/honest action to take in the circumstance is to LISTEN
to somebody who knows there is likely a problem.
Sellers wishing to protect their reputations act qucikly when problems are
cited. Such action alone helps PROVE that they are acting in good-faith and
responsibly.