NT or AT (2)

1794half1839 · April 8, 2008 9:26AM

I know its in a slab.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Neon-Red-and-Lime-Green-Rainbow-Toned-PCGS-MS66-1982-D_W0QQitemZ150233306518QQihZ005QQcategoryZ41107QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Russ · April 8, 2008 9:26AM

I clicked your link and nothing happened.

Russ, NCNE

Doogy · April 8, 2008 9:28AM

Braddick (the seller) is a long time forum member, so i'm sure he can weigh in on this one. No idea how it would pick up those colors

PatchFanatic · April 8, 2008 9:29AM

Link

Placid · April 8, 2008 9:33AM

No idea.

ricko · April 8, 2008 9:56AM

Why do people even ask??? Cheers, RickO

Mercury10c · April 8, 2008 10:31AM

If it was not in a PCGS holder, there would already be 2 dozen AT responses here.
Why do people insist on tilting the coins sideways when they take their pictures?
It's just as easy to take the picture with the slab in a vertical position.

Connecticoin · April 8, 2008 10:37AM

If re-submitted, it would get bagged.

kryptonitecomics · April 8, 2008 10:44AM

The coin will not look neon like that in hand...the images have been enhanced as has almost all of the images of the coins he sells. I do not know why Pat has turned to this dishonest approach to selling but I guess some folks can sleep at night with the barrels of money they collected off of niave buyers. I would love to have Pat jump in this thread and explain why he has chosen the dark side so to speak.....I also don't want to hear from anyone saying the coins image and color have not been enhanced...I have imaged thousands of Toned coins and while I do recognize that sometime you have to make some adjustments to the image due to slab glare.....that's not the case here.

This seller is not alone....I have quite a few flippers on Ebay buying my coins, juicing the images, and then reselling them for large markups. Ultimately the buyer is the one that loses out as they will never get what they paid for

copperfan · April 8, 2008 10:48AM

I like toning on coins, when it looks natural. This is not a coin I would care to own really at any price.

SeattleSlammer · April 8, 2008 12:15PM

The coin will not look neon like that in hand...the images have been enhanced as has almost all of the images of the coins he sells. I do not know why Pat has turned to this dishonest approach to selling but I guess some folks can sleep at night with the barrels of money they collected off of niave buyers. I would love to have Pat jump in this thread and explain why he has chosen the dark side so to speak.....I also don't want to hear from anyone saying the coins image and color have not been enhanced...I have imaged thousands of Toned coins and while I do recognize that sometime you have to make some adjustments to the image due to slab glare.....that's not the case here.

This seller is not alone....I have quite a few flippers on Ebay buying my coins, juicing the images, and then reselling them for large markups. Ultimately the buyer is the one that loses out as they will never get what they paid for

I've bought multiple coins from Pat and they ALL were just as nice in-hand as in his aution photos (i.e. beautiful coins). He's an honest seller with great material.

SeattleSlammer · April 8, 2008 12:17PM

PS-look at his stellar feedback and you'll see that his buyers agree with me.

kryptonitecomics · April 8, 2008 12:50PM

<< PS-look at his stellar feedback and you'll see that his buyers agree with me. >>

Sorry that is BS....plenty of folks getting NARU from Ebay with great feedback becuase folks didn't want to stir up trouble.

I'll go a step further.....if someone is willing ...I will pay to have them ship one of these neon glow in the dark coins to me and I will image it and then we can compare it to the pictures posted on Ebay....

I will stack my photo skills up against anyone as I know how to capture toning on a coin without making it look like a cartoon.....

I guarantee they won't match. Maybe some of the ones with only small image enhancements but a large quantity won't. Plus we already had one person come forward he purchased one of Pat's coins state that he could never get the coin to look like it did in his Ebay photo.

If folks have coins they purchased from Pat....like you SeattleSlammer...I would love to see some side by side comparisons of your images of the coin vs the Ebay images?

Too many folks have remained silent for too long because a person is a forum member........I won't do it anymore.....

P.S. This is about the coins looking neon in hand like they do in the images on Ebay....it's not about whether Pat sells nice colorful coins......unless they have battery packs.....coins don't glow like that!

DJCoinz · April 8, 2008 12:55PM

<< 

<< PS-look at his stellar feedback and you'll see that his buyers agree with me. >>

Sorry that is BS....plenty of folks getting NARU from Ebay with great feedback becuase folks didn't want to stir up trouble.

I'll go a step further.....if someone is willing ...I will pay to have them ship one of these neon glow in the dark coins to me and I will image it and then we can compare it to the pictures posted on Ebay....

I will stack my photo skills up against anyone as I know how to capture toning on a coin without making it look like a cartoon.....

I guarantee they won't match. Maybe some of the ones with only small image enhancements but a large quantity won't. Plus we already had one person come forward he purchased one of Pat's coins state that he could never get the coin to look like it did in his Ebay photo.

If folks have coins they purchased from Pat....like you SeattleSlammer...I would love to see some side by side comparisons of your images of the coin vs the Ebay images?

Too many folks have remained silent for too long because a person is a forum member........I won't do it anymore.....

P.S. This is about the coins looking neon in hand like they do in the images on Ebay....it's not about whether Pat sells nice colorful coins......unless they have battery packs.....coins don't glow like that! >>

Do you have some bad history with Pat?

The images don't strike me as enhanced.

kryptonitecomics · April 8, 2008 1:01PM

I have no history with Pat.....never had a problem with him until he started enhancing and juicing his images......if nobody has the guts to say it I will......bottom line is that I don't have to even open his auctions to know it's his...I can see the glow on the images from the little gallery photo's.....some are worse than others. The one's that are real bad are even easier to spot as the images get fuzzy and the holders start to change colors. Like I said...I expect some of this even from experienced photographers becuase some tweaking may be necessary but not to the degree that I am seeing from pat.

If you don't have top notch skills when it comes to imaging toners it may be difficult for a collector to know when an image has been enhanced or not.....it's not a knock on anyone. It really comes down to knowing what a toned coin looks like in hand and knowing what a person can do with photoshop etc.

SeattleSlammer · April 9, 2008 4:32AM

kryptonitecomics, WTF?
You certainly have a righteous tone to your posts.
Look at Pat's feedback. 3,500+ extremely satisfied transactions. The majority involving monster toned coins.
Like I already wrote, I have bought coins from him and they are just as nice in-hand. Great color in-hand just like in his pics.
Since you've never purchased a coin from him that was misrepresented (apparently 99.9% of his customers haven't either), you really should shut up and stop embarrassing yourself.

JJM · April 9, 2008 4:35AM

something accelerated that color IMO

rgCoinGuy · April 9, 2008 4:42AM

There is definitely a difference in the color of the background table on the obverse picture. Much more Red in it.

braddick · April 9, 2008 5:05AM

Shane is pissed because I called the Franklin possibly AT on another forum when he posted it asking what members thought of it. Shane also makes a habit of asking opinions on many of his coins, including threads on 'submission results' and "what do you think of this one?" type posts whereas the coins magically become available, on eBay, just days later. That's spaming the forums- PCGS and NGC included and Shane knows it.

For example, here's one thread he started

With this thread bumped, featuring the above now for sale on ebay

Two other coin forums show the same methods used.

Shane states it's not personal with me, but if that was the case why hasn't he also dealt with Brandon and Anaconda

or even greattoning with the same disdain?

kryptonitecomics · April 9, 2008 5:48AM

It's not personal and it not about spamming boards...this is about dishonest manipulation of coin images to sell coins for higher prices....I could care less if someone calls a coin I post AT....especially if I ask for an opinion?

That's just crazy.......Pat can not prove his coins glow in the dark and as I said....there is no way in heck his coins look like that in hand....if folks what to believe otherwise they are just folloing themselves. As far as the other sellers mentioned......I didn't think ANACONDAs images looked juiced.....maybe a little enhanced due to superior lighting and imaging techniques but the coins don't look like cartoons. Greattoning used to have excellent images and I purchased some coins from Dick that looked better in hand....but now I see he is doing the same thing as Pat....juicing his images to increase profits.

I started the type "B" quarter thread to see if there was a premium for those coins...I also did it to let folks know that I am finding these coins in original Mint sets. I don't care if you buy them or not and I never made mention that they were for sale or included a link.....how is that spamming? Pat you do the same thing all the time...ask for opinions on coins and grades....does that make you a bad person? Nope...just don't include a link to your auctions or solicit in the thread....and I think it's fine to show off something your purcased or had graded.

As for bumping on the B/S/T....I know the rules and I can guarantee that I never TTT more than once a day. If you want to make me responsible for others bumping my thread to the top then so be it but ask them if I ever contacted any of them about doing so....nope I never did.....if you were a poster that did then please stop as I am not trying to take advantage of a loophole.....just PM me if you have a question about the coins I posted.

Now that Pat has tried to defer the truth by trying to soil my name and selling techniques lets get back to the originally issue I posted about....enhancing the images. Are you denying that you are juicing the heck out of your pictures Pat.......what happend to honesty and integrety? Please show us one of your infamous glow in the dark Neon rainbow ASE's where the holders is like yellow and tell me the coin looks like that in hand?

Is there anyone that images coins on here for sale that believes for one second the images aren't super enhanced in a lot of case? Come on....let's get real folks

Hadleydog · April 9, 2008 5:59AM

I have purchased from Pat in the past, and the coins were better in hand than the images. Now the images look like cartoons..........

tradedollarnut · April 9, 2008 6:02AM

I could care less if someone calls a coin I post AT....especially if I ask for an opinion?

I have to agree with this because I also called that half AT and he was very gracious as he rubbed my face in the dirt for it via PM.

FWIW, I've bought two coins from Pat and were pleased with them. That doesn't mean that I like all the coins he posts, but those two were very nice.

braddick · April 9, 2008 6:26AM

Shane, you're really not in a position to set the agenda of this Thread as after all it isn't yours to begin with. Your strategy of attempting to brow beat a reply from me simply won't work.
I will respond though with a few thoughts your post bring out to me.

First, Of course images are manipulated to a degree. It's to get the coin to look closer to what it is in hand. For example, lighting is adjusted and moved (or, even changed) depending on the color of the coin being photographed. Images are processed and, to a degree, altered.

Now, the reason I even jumped on this thread to begin with is because you were calling a board member here a liar. Seatleslammer stated above he has purchased several of my coins and they appear just as imaged. You on the other hand have not held any of my coins in your hand for a first hand comparison. Even so, you determined he is being untruthful via your response.

Now, you mention a couple of interesting things. First, you cry fowl and complain of being victimized on eBay by selling your toned coins to flippers who then enhance the image and resell them at insane profits. Please link just one single transaction where that is the case. That's with any seller on any coin.

Secondly you mention Richard (greattoning) now also enhances his images by juicing them- something he has just recently started to do, according to you. I know for a fact he is using the same photo styles he has used for years- nothings changed. We speak frequently and I have many of his older images saved and his recent offerings on eBay have the same signature style without a hint of new enhancements. Couple that inforamation with the fact I have purchased multiple coins from him and also had him sell some of my coins on consignments (easily close to 200 coins)- his photos appear exactly as the coin does in hand. For you to disparage him so easily speaks volumes of your character.

If you disagree, please show an image of one of his coins you've purchased that you've taken and we'll then compare it against the photo he's used in the auction. I'm sure you have that evidence quickly at your disposal as you made your accusations so easily and with such confidence.

Certainly you do have first hand knowledge of what one of his coins look like in hand, don't you?

I look forward to viewing your links you will soon provide.

jbsteven · April 9, 2008 6:27AM

Pat DOES enhance his photos. This one is no different from the other photos he enhances.

Tonedbuff · April 9, 2008 6:30AM

What's the big deal? Put silver in an envolope near a heat source for a year or so and you have accellerated natural toning, which is often market acceptible, as this one was deemed to be.

Personally, I don't like it (meaning this particular coin), but most moderns with super toning spent time in envelopes or old RW albums... Some of them look great, and I'd be happy to own them.

braddick · April 9, 2008 6:36AM

<< I have purchased from Pat in the past, and the coins were better in hand than the images. Now the images look like cartoons.......... >>

Hadlydog, First, I appreciate the compliment. Secondly, much of that has to do with me purchasing many cartoon looking coins! I've been on a kick the last few months buying about all the wild/neon crazy PCGS and NGC toned coins I could locate. Many of the others are consignments. I've also sold a few coins in PCGS holders I believe had been AT'ed and have stated so in my auctions.

This fad will end with me though as my inventory of cartoon coins is about dried up!

clarkbar04 · April 9, 2008 6:41AM

<< 

Now, you mention a couple of interesting things. First, you cry fowl and complain of being victimized on eBay by selling your toned coins to flippers who then enhance the image and resell them at insane profits. Please link just one single transaction where that is the case. That's with any seller on any coin.
. >>

FWIW, I have seen 95% of the toned coins I have sold on ebay listed again at least once, some as many as 4 times. However, I could care less what they do with them after they pay me and leave positive feedback.

Sometimes I think the flippers are what keep ebay going!

braddick · April 9, 2008 6:44AM

Interestingly, I received an email last night regarding the Washington half that is featured in this thread via the eBay system. (I now realize it was probably from someone who had read this thread.) I added content to the auction description in reply to his inquiry stating than if anyone purchases this half and doesn't find it looking exactly as it does in the photos he may return for a complete refund, of course, but I would also refund two-way postage and include a $25.00 bonus for his troubles. I also extended the guarantee time from seven days to 14 so he'll have plenty of time to show his coin buddies before deciding to keep it.
That sound kind of fair to me.

kryptonitecomics · April 9, 2008 6:48AM

Now Pat why would I want to pay moon money for your coins when I know they won't look like that in hand....as far as folks purchasing my coins and then flipping them after they enhance the photo's...that's an easy one and I have shared some examples through PMs with other forum members. If that would make you happy I can and will post links

I love the way you are skirting the issue by saying all photo's are enhanced to get them to look like they do in hand....I said the same thing but that is not what we are talking about here now is it....please explain on this coin and at least one other you currently have on Ebay...how the wood grain in your background went from brown in the reverse photo's to red in your obverse....lol

Yes magic wood....and I know you just wanted the table to look like it does in person as well. Bottom line is I am calling it like I see it.....if folks are knowingly enhances their images to generate higher bids ....like you clearly are....I can't police enveryone I just wanted to point it out....kinda like peeing in the wind really. Those that know what they are looking at and have imaged toned coins before know to stay away....those that do not can continue to overpay.....I can't stop them.

As for Seatleslammer....your right Pat....if he says the coins look just like your image that's great for you but proves nothing as I haven't seen the images of the coin and I don't have it in hand. Maybe it's one of the ones you didn't have to tweak much....who knows. I am not bring this issue to light...the original poster had some concerns about the coin and he wanted opinions. I gave my opinion and I stand buy it...this coin will not...and I repeat...will not have Neon, Glow in the dark Red toning as your picture eludes too. Will it have colorful toning that includes red...I am sure it does.

Do you want me to outbid everyone on this coin and then take an image of it for all to see and compare? I am pretty sure you would block my bid attempt.....

For the bidder out there.....if you are happy with Pats coins and you want to purchase his coins....have at it.......

kryptonitecomics · April 9, 2008 6:51AM

<< Interestingly, I received an email last night regarding the Washington half that is featured in this thread via the eBay system. (I now realize it was probably from someone who had read this thread.) I added content to the auction description in reply to his inquiry stating than if anyone purchases this half and doesn't find it looking exactly as it does in the photos he may return for a complete refund, of course, but I would also refund two-way postage and include a $25.00 bonus for his troubles. I also extended the guarantee time from seven days to 14 so he'll have plenty of time to show his coin buddies before deciding to keep it.
That sound kind of fair to me. >>

I saw the note and I agree that's fair.....I am sure you would have offered a refund on any of your coins sold if someone was not satisfied...and that's fair as well. My point is......while the coins may be colorful.......they will not look like the images....that's it....I rest my case your honor.

braddick · April 9, 2008 6:58AM

Sounds fair Shane.
On that we can agree.

I may have spouted a couple or regrettable comments above, and for that I apologize (for example, re-thinking it, I don't believe you are ticked off about my Franklin comment).

I just checked and confirmed, you're not blocked from bidding.

Edscoin · April 9, 2008 6:58AM

Probably NT. But I would hope it didn't look like that in hand. That is one Ugly Coin!

TorinoCobra71 · April 9, 2008 7:38AM

<< If re-submitted, it would get bagged. >>

TC71

kryptonitecomics · April 9, 2008 8:02AM

For the record I don't think the coin referenced in AT......and I don't think Pat sells AT coins as a practice even though PCGS might have holdered some questionable coins....that's not Pat's problem. As a perfect example...the coin that Pat linked too (19863 Proof Frankie) where I asked for an AT vs NT opinion....I think the coin is NT but honestly.....there is no way to know for sure and many folks might think it not legit. I don't have a problem with that as I relied on the experts and they graded it....just like the commemorative.

gecko109 · April 9, 2008 8:11AM

I had a proxy bid of $150 in on this coin before I even read this thread. Turns out that I won this coin at $142. Interestingly, I was also the high bidder on the NT vs AT part 1 thread. Am I missing something here? Am I overpaying for pretty colors? I can certainley think of worse ways to spend $142 (3 hands of blackjack) than this however. It looks as if I now owe the forum not 1, but 2 reports on how the 2 coins look in hand compared to the photos. First time purchases from both Pat and Dick, so we will see if all this bickering actually held any water.

ddbird · April 9, 2008 8:47AM

NT but more juice than in Bond's veins.

SeattleSlammer · April 9, 2008 10:01AM

My point is......while the coins may be colorful.......they will not look like the images....that's it....I rest my case your honor.

Shane, you're a dope. Are you saying that despite all of the happy feedback, Pat's customers were actually secretly disappointed with their coins in-hand but still felt the need to post positive feedback? Lets take a look at just a few examples shall we? (and trust me, there's a lot more where this came from).

Like for example this coin image which once in-hand received this feedback:
Vibrant beauty!

Or perhaps this coin image which received this feedback:
Excellent Coin. Good Service. I'l buy from you again

Or maybe this coin image which received this feedback:
Great coins from this seller i highly recommend! A+++++

Perhaps this coin image which received this feedback:
Spectacular coin as described, fast shipping, quite pleased, thanks.

No, I know, you were probably thinking of this coin image which received this feedback:
Great coin and service!!

Okay, now I bet it was this coin image which received this feedback:
COIN IS AS DESCRIBED QUICK DELIVERY PLEASANT TRANSACTION

Now that I think about it, it was probably this coin image which received this feedback:
Item As Described. Fast Shipping. Excellent Seller. Thanks!!!

rgCoinGuy · April 9, 2008 11:02AM

[q

Why is the holder pink?
Vibrant beauty!

Why does the holder appear to be toned the same vibrant colors as the coin on the left and right sides in the middle?
Excellent Coin. Good Service. I'l buy from you again

Why is this holder purple?

Great coins from this seller i highly recommend! A+++++

>>

I have nothing to do with any of the buyers or sellers in this thread, but as this is an open discussion on the forum, some points are pretty obvious from the pictures made available to us. I would buy coins from anyone on here, but I don't think this rebuttal, with the pictures above and the holders in such different colors, make a very good point. Just my opinion. It did appear before this post that the two main protagonists had made up already anyway.

gecko109 · April 9, 2008 11:05AM

What difference does it make? I already had the seller contact me offering a full, no hassle refund if I wasnt 100% happy! So what have I got to lose?

kryptonitecomics · April 9, 2008 11:05AM

The 1881-S looks like a good image...all the rest are super juiced....are you trying to make my point for me?

What you not showing is a buyers image of the coin or anyone else for comparison purposes....that's what would really be needed here. Remember...I didn't say they weren't nice coins...I said the coins would not look Neon like that in hand so buyers feedback means they were happy with the coins they received and I can't and won't argue that point.....please post an image of a coin you purchased and imaged from Pat so I can see that the coin looks plugged in to a light socket like the coins below....thanks

rgCoinGuy · April 9, 2008 11:07AM

Gecko, believe it or not, my post was not to you.

kryptonitecomics · April 9, 2008 11:08AM

<< What difference does it make? I already had the seller contact me offering a full, no hassle refund if I wasnt 100% happy! So what have I got to lose? >>

Nothing you have nothing to lose and I hope you like the coins.....doesn't mater what I think of the coins you personally bought...I was making an observation as to the neon characteristics of the coin images.....nothing more and nothing less.

SeattleSlammer · April 10, 2008 12:59AM

Shane, the point is that despite what you have deemed to be juiced images, the buyers of said coins are saying that the coins are "as described" when they get them in-hand. That would indicate that regardless of what you think of the images, that the coins in-hand DO in fact look like the images. What in the world does "as described" mean to you?

So I direct you once again to your previous comment that clearly isn't true:
My point is......while the coins may be colorful.......they will not look like the images....that's it....I rest my case your honor.

ss350camaro · April 10, 2008 3:01AM

Wonder why Braddick has two ebay selling accounts?

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtenqbay

SeattleSlammer · April 10, 2008 3:19AM

Wonder why Braddick has two ebay selling accounts?

Gee, that's a great point you made there. Look at that other account, with the 100% feedback.

Get a life!

ss350camaro · April 10, 2008 3:20AM

<< Wonder why Braddick has two ebay selling accounts?

Gee, that's a great point you made there. Look at that other account, with the 100% feedback.

Get a life! >>

evidently you took my post as some kind of slam ?

?

jmski52 · April 10, 2008 3:22AM

I like attractive toning as much as the next person, but one should not forget that toning is formed when irreversible surface damage to the coin is happening. Just my two cents.

SeattleSlammer · April 10, 2008 3:22AM

Whoops, you're right, I did.....

If it wasn't, I apologize to you, ss350camaro.

braddick · April 10, 2008 3:25AM

ss350Camero, One account is for generally selling consignments (coins I don't own) and the other, generally for selling my own material (coins I own).

Both accounts share the same account info (as confirmed by checking eBay's MyWorld.

I also like to purchase a coin for my own collection without using my primary account to do so.
I hope that answers your inquiry.

gecko109 · April 10, 2008 3:27AM

<< ss350Camero, One account is for generally selling consignments (coins I don't own) and the other, generally for selling my own material (coins I own).

Both accounts share the same account info (as confirmed by checking eBay's MyWorld.

I also like to purchase a coin for my own collection without using my primary account to do so.
I hope that answers your inquiry. >>

Nothing wrong with that.....hey camaroSS, I have 3 bank accounts....does that make me "suspect" in some way also?

ss350camaro · April 10, 2008 3:38AM

<< 

Nothing wrong with that.....hey camaroSS, I have 3 bank accounts....does that make me "suspect" in some way also? >>

NT or AT (2)

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