Options
Hypothetical #15 - Probably fake 1796 half dollar
MrEureka
Posts: 23,960 ✭✭✭✭✭
You're a dealer and you buy a collection of counterfeits, as counterfeits, from a longtime counterfeit collector. There's a 1796 half dollar in the deal that appears to be heavily worn, corroded and polished. You think there's a slim chance it's real. You send it to NCS for authenthication but they call it a fake. However, you still think it might be real. You then offer it to another dealer for $10,000, telling him that it's from an "old collection" and that "it's on consignment so it needs to be an "as is" deal". (The implication is that you will not have recourse with your fictitious consignor.) He buys it. Later, he learns the whole story and wants to return the coin. Do you have to refund the money?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
0
Comments
Yes, it's illegal to sell fake coins/currency.
How do you know it's fake?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>an "as is" deal". >>
peacockcoins
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
I'd refund the deal.
Tiger trout, Deerfield River, c. 2001.
1. I don't think you're obligated to disclose all material facts when selling a coin unless you have a special relationship with the buyer that clearly requires you to do so.
2. The facts that were misrepresented were not material. It should not matter why the coin was being offered "as is".
3. The fact that it was offered "as is" provides sufficient warning to the buyer that the authenticity of the coin is in question.
4. You can't assume that NCS was correct in calling the coin a fake. In fact, in this case, I made it clear that the seller really believes that the coin may be authentic. Do you really expect him to be bound by a third party's opinion?
Of course, none of the above means that I don't think the seller is a greasy slimeball.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
DONE DEAL
like you said, it could be authentic
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
Ron - The only way you will convince me of that is over a bottle of scotch at ANA. Loser buys.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>If "You" as the dealer don't refund the purchase price, a Court would order it - maybe with additional damages added on for fraud. Knoweldge and intent are all here and this is an easy case - the selling dealer will lose 99.9% of the time (the other .1% is only when the Judge is blind and the selling dealer is his biggest political contributor - and that would probably get corrected in the appeal).
Ron - The only way you will convince me of that is over a bottle of scotch at ANA. Loser buys. >>
Ok, if you insist, but I'm bringing my former partner, and he's a Judge - You sure you want this bet? (But I'll drink scotch wth you anytime, no bets necessary - but as I remember, you "owe" me as I bought last time in Chicago (or was it Orlando - gets a little hazy after that 3rd single Malt) - Wanna go slumming sometime at a few distillerys in Scotland - you in charge of rounding up the designated driver!
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>You can't assume that NCS was correct in calling the coin a fake. In fact, in this case, I made it clear that the seller really believes that the coin may be authentic. >>
There's a substantial difference between a "slim chance" (as stated in the OP) and "really believes" the coin could be authentic.
But if the coin is sold as is, then it's a done deal. Of course, I believe the buyer could be allowed to take legal action if the coin actually turned out to be counterfeit, since the sale of counterfeit currency is illigal.
Was this a trick question?
Steve
How about a weight?
What about checking with a specialist in the series such as Jon Amato or David Davis? Do they have a listing or auction appearance for this item?
There's not enough research going on here for just "a possibility" of the coin in question being genuine.
Authentication is the one thing which must be determined first.