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Man, ebay sellers who end auctions, WITH BIDS, early
Bochiman
Posts: 25,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
just really torque me off!
I had some on my watch list, they had bids, had more than a day or two to go, and the seller ends auction as "no longer available".
That is a major item I hate.....it isn't even mentioned in the auctions, like some do (which I still disagree with) that the items are offered in other venues and may be sold before the auction ends.
If you put something on ebay, don't offer it elsewhere for that time period. If you are going to do that, state that in your auction so people can just avoid your auctions if they don't like it.
(This wasn't just 1 auction from the seller...it is multiple)
I had some on my watch list, they had bids, had more than a day or two to go, and the seller ends auction as "no longer available".
That is a major item I hate.....it isn't even mentioned in the auctions, like some do (which I still disagree with) that the items are offered in other venues and may be sold before the auction ends.
If you put something on ebay, don't offer it elsewhere for that time period. If you are going to do that, state that in your auction so people can just avoid your auctions if they don't like it.
(This wasn't just 1 auction from the seller...it is multiple)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
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<< <i>(This wasn't just 1 auction from the seller...it is multiple) >>
That usually means the "no longer available" is BS, and the real reason is that they weren't getting the action they hoped for.
Russ, NCNE
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>
<< <i>(This wasn't just 1 auction from the seller...it is multiple) >>
That usually means the "no longer available" is BS, and the real reason is that they weren't getting the action they hoped for.
Russ, NCNE >>
Ditto.
<< <i>I have done that a couple of times but usually because an error in the auction was pointed out to me which could affect the end price. >>
Or more importantly, could cause the buyer to think he's bidding on something other than what he is.
(Maybe you already do that. If so, I wish that more sellers would.)
The name is LEE!
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<< <i>(This wasn't just 1 auction from the seller...it is multiple) >>
That usually means the "no longer available" is BS, and the real reason is that they weren't getting the action they hoped for.
Russ, NCNE >>
Usually, I would agree on that. in this case, I think it is soliciting/accepting other offers and if acceptable, taking it and not getting the ebay fees.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I have done that a couple of times but usually because an error in the auction was pointed out to me which could affect the end price. >>
That's one thing...I am pretty sure, 99.999999999999999999999999%, that wasn't it for these.....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
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<< <i>
<< <i>(This wasn't just 1 auction from the seller...it is multiple) >>
That usually means the "no longer available" is BS, and the real reason is that they weren't getting the action they hoped for. Russ, NCNE >>
Usually, I would agree on that. in this case, I think it is soliciting/accepting other offers and if acceptable, taking it and not getting the ebay fees. >>
Ebay has done everything they can to piss sellers off. Most sellers will do anything they can to avoid ebay fees--especially coin sellers who have been drug over some very rough and sharp areas without protective gear lately. I would expect to see this more and more. --Jerry
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<< <i>(This wasn't just 1 auction from the seller...it is multiple) >>
That usually means the "no longer available" is BS, and the real reason is that they weren't getting the action they hoped for.
Russ, NCNE >>
I completely agree.
I was a watching a coin on the ebay recently. The seller listed it with a BIN and it didn't sell. (The BIN amount was stupid). Then the seller re-listed the coin as a no reserve auction. I was excited but realized what would ultimately occur. Guess what, he pulled the auction with 2 days left and the price was about 1/2 of his previous BIN. Now the coin is back up on the 'bay with a BIN for even more than first BIN.
I am not a fan of sellers that play games and I certainly won't ever do business with him.
<< <i>We got tired of having people waiting to the last few secons and use sniping software... so we sometimes end early to defeat it... >>
I've got no problem with it. A business has an obligation to maximize it's sales within any legal means.
<< <i>We got tired of having people waiting to the last few secons and use sniping software... so we sometimes end early to defeat it... >>
From a sellers standpoint a snipe is only good if you have two or more snipers. Snipers can sometimes be determined by the number of watchers. Otherwise, it just turns into a giveaway!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>We got tired of having people waiting to the last few secons and use sniping software... so we sometimes end early to defeat it... >>
Why?
Ray
<< <i>Quite a few time when I see something I really want I will try to offer a fair price to the seller instead of caught in the sniping war. >>
There is nothing wrong with asking the seller to add a BIN to his auction. I did that recently with an 1855 "prooflike" large cent being discussed here and almost got a "you suck" from Joe Lewis. When I plan to snipe an auction I sometimes bid it up to perhaps 50 to 75% of my expected snipe to make sure it doesn't end early and perhaps shake out a few weak bidders.
Don't ask me if I've ever bought a coin off ebay that might have been listed there in the past but as I said above, sellers are not shy at all about cutting ebay out of the transaction after the way they've been treated. --Jerry
Seems fair to me, just trying to beat the technology from the sellers viewpoint.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
<< <i>We got tired of having people waiting to the last few secons and use sniping software... so we sometimes end early to defeat it... >>
Isn't that what reserves and/or starting at the lowest price you'll accept are for?
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<< <i>We got tired of having people waiting to the last few secons and use sniping software... so we sometimes end early to defeat it... >>
I've got no problem with it. A business has an obligation to maximize it's sales within any legal means. >>
For both of you....don't use ebay to sell then.
If you don't want to sell within the rules of the venue you are using, go elsewhere. Seems pretty simple to me, unless you are trying to game the system.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>If you don't want to sell within the rules of the venue you are using, go elsewhere. Seems pretty simple to me, unless you are trying to game the system. >>
Agreed. I've been hosed a few times and I've been tempted to nuke the auctions in question. Sometimes the snipers come through for me, and sometimes they haven't.
But I feel like I've made a commitment to sell that I don't feel ethically comfortable with reneging on. If there is something that I am so afraid of taking a bath on, I start it at the minimum I'll accept. If I'm less concerned, I start it at $.99 with no reserve.
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<< <i>
<< <i>We got tired of having people waiting to the last few secons and use sniping software... so we sometimes end early to defeat it... >>
I've got no problem with it. A business has an obligation to maximize it's sales within any legal means. >>
For both of you....don't use ebay to sell then. If you don't want to sell within the rules of the venue you are using, go elsewhere. Seems pretty simple to me, unless you are trying to game the system. >>
It is clear, sellers should forgo making a profit and only do things the way Bochiman wants you to. If you lose money, that's a good thing. --Jerry
If a seller has a coin I don't want to buy, then I don't care what he does.
And if it is a coin I want to buy, my only concern is if I am will to pay what he is asking.
<< <i>It is clear, sellers should forgo making a profit and only do things the way Bochiman wants you to. If you lose money, that's a good thing. --Jerry >>
Are you implying that breaking the rules that were agreed to when joining eBay is the only way to guarantee a profit?
<< <i>Are you implying that breaking the rules that were agreed to when joining Ebay is the only way to guarantee a profit? >>
If it were against the rules Ebay would not allow it.
I for one have taken some hits on prices by leaving items up when I should have taken them down. The key for me is lack of activity on the item, lack of watchers, and what is going on with similar items. Too many times I have found my items did not turn up in a search, when that happens the items comes down. I am not going to give a $100 coin away for $5, to do so is just stupid.
I realize that many buyers are willing to pay a reasonable price, and will bid a reasonable price, but if no one else is going to bid on that item because it did not appear in a search then that maximum bid is never realized.
With all the changes the past few months Ebay has made it is harder for buyers to just browse a category, and if Ebay is going to make an item harder to find I'll be damned if I feel obligated to give it away. The greed is not the sellers but Ebay’s for putting the seller in the position where they have to chose between paying extra fee's for items such as Highlighting, Bold, Subtitles and of course the big one - Featured Plus – or taking a chance that it will never be seen.
From what I have read so far in this thread the ones that get angry are the buyers who want something for next to nothing. I'm sure they would feel different the first time they took a big hit on an item that failed to get included in search results.
Ebay has clearly stated in this last round of changes that the bigger the power seller the more their items will be displayed in search results. It should be equal for all sellers, but the fact of the matter is that it is not.
It is your prerogative to disagree with this viewpoint, but I like other sellers are collectors also, if you feel it should go at any price when it is listed then I will be happy to pay you five cents on the dollar for all the PCGS graded coins your willing to part with.
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
<< <i>
<< <i>(This wasn't just 1 auction from the seller...it is multiple) >>
That usually means the "no longer available" is BS, and the real reason is that they weren't getting the action they hoped for.
Russ, NCNE >>
I disagree. I tend to think that the real reason is that someone messaged them with a very high offer because they had to have that item. Its happened to me several times. I do not end auctions early for that reason however, but its been mighty tempting once or twice!
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
In a real auction you couldn't get away with it, and some auction sites automatically extend an auction by 3 minutes after the last bid to give others time to respond. That is more in keeping with the tradition of auctioning to set FMV than relying on who got the snipe bid accepted at the last possible second.
I don't think ebay has any rules that state sellers should sell their items for well below fair market value. I do think some sellers set an unrealistic low opening bid to try to reduce their ebay fees. I don't, as I said I generally set the opening bid at the minimum I would accept, which is most often well below the fair market value. Sometimes I will end an auction early if their is no activity, because it is obvious that auction is not going to generate interest and has little chance of getting even reasonably close to FMV. I also have no interest in helping greedy buyers feel good about themselves.
And by the way, I sell very little, I'm a collector but sometimes I want to move things I have upgraded so I would like to realize a reasonable amount for them. But i have no problem with sellers trying to game the gamers.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
<< <i>I do find it amusing that if a seller wants to maximise their revenue it's "Greed" and trying to "game the system", but if a buyer wants to steal a coin for 10 cents on the dollar then somehow all is right with the world. I simply don't think sniping software leads to fair auctions. If everyones sniping software is trying to enter bids in the last 5 seconds then the seller may not recieve the maximum bid one of the buyers was willing to pay. It's just a matter of luck, and timing of electron flow, if the highest bid actually goes through. If you somehow think that is more honorable than a seller wanting to receive a fair price then you are simply greedy and wrong, no other way to put it. >>
For better or worse, eBay's system is set up so that people who don't snipe are likely to pay more than they would if they snipe. From a buyer's point of view, NOT sniping is basically saying "here, take more of my money!"
I don't necessarily like that the system encourages sniping, but unless the system changes, I think it's silly to expect buyers to abide by some "no-sniping honor code" which is likely to cost them more money in the end.
If a seller won't accept less than $100 for an item, put a $100 reserve on it or start it at $100. If you want to play riverboat gambler and start it a 99 cents with no reserve, you may roll snake eyes once in a while. If you don't like those odds, leave the table.
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>Are you implying that breaking the rules that were agreed to when joining Ebay is the only way to guarantee a profit? >>
If it were against the rules Ebay would not allow it.
I for one have taken some hits on prices by leaving items up when I should have taken them down. The key for me is lack of activity on the item, lack of watchers, and what is going on with similar items. Too many times I have found my items did not turn up in a search, when that happens the items comes down. I am not going to give a $100 coin away for $5, to do so is just stupid.
I realize that many buyers are willing to pay a reasonable price, and will bid a reasonable price, but if no one else is going to bid on that item because it did not appear in a search then that maximum bid is never realized.
With all the changes the past few months Ebay has made it is harder for buyers to just browse a category, and if Ebay is going to make an item harder to find I'll be damned if I feel obligated to give it away. The greed is not the sellers but Ebay’s for putting the seller in the position where they have to chose between paying extra fee's for items such as Highlighting, Bold, Subtitles and of course the big one - Featured Plus – or taking a chance that it will never be seen.
From what I have read so far in this thread the ones that get angry are the buyers who want something for next to nothing. I'm sure they would feel different the first time they took a big hit on an item that failed to get included in search results.
Ebay has clearly stated in this last round of changes that the bigger the power seller the more their items will be displayed in search results. It should be equal for all sellers, but the fact of the matter is that it is not.
It is your prerogative to disagree with this viewpoint, but I like other sellers are collectors also, if you feel it should go at any price when it is listed then I will be happy to pay you five cents on the dollar for all the PCGS graded coins your willing to part with. >>
I totally agree with you... well said.
<< <i>If a seller won't accept less than $100 for an item, put a $100 reserve on it or start it at $100. If you want to play riverboat gambler and start it a 99 cents with no reserve, you may roll snake eyes once in a while. If you don't like those odds, leave the table. >>
Once again, more fees's for Ebay. If you’re listing an occasional item that's fine, if your listing dozens of auctions the fees add up pretty quick.
edited for spelling...
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
<< <i>
<< <i>It is clear, sellers should forgo making a profit and only do things the way Bochiman wants you to. If you lose money, that's a good thing. --Jerry >>
Are you implying that breaking the rules that were agreed to when joining eBay is the only way to guarantee a profit? >>
Rules are often quoted and nitpicked only when it benefits the seller. It is not against any rule to end an auction early if the coin sells elsewhere. The mentality here is that once an auction is listed you have bared your soul to the buyers and under no circumstances should they be hindered in trying to buy this coin from you at less than market value.
BTW, I do very few auction-style listings so I am not really talking about my auctions. I buy more auctions-style listings than I sell. But I see both sides of the coin. --jerry
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<< <i>I don't necessarily like that the system encourages sniping, but unless the system changes, I think it's silly to expect buyers to abide by some "no-sniping honor code" which is likely to cost them more money in the end.
q]
I do not expect ebay buyers to have any honor code at all, as many have already said they expect to buy something for the very cheapest price possible. I simply think it's wrong to assume that sellers are obligated to support there methods. When I find something I am interested in I place a bid that is the most I am willing to spend, just like I do in real auctions when I leave a bid with the auction house. I never spend more than I am willing to on an item because I don't get caught up in the final bidding war. If someone is willing to pay more than me then they get the item, it's simple and seems very fair to both buyer and seller. The seller is probably getting something close to FMV for their item, and I'm spending no more than I am willing to spend. But then again I'm not a greedy person, I don't believe that I have some inalienable right to buy items for 10 cents on the dollar. I also don't think sniping software works as well as some seem to think, as an example if you manage to snipe me on an auction item at ebay you didn't get some great bargain. You were simply willing to spend more than me, and I'm usually willing to pay FMV for something I want.
Now you could snipe me on all the slabbed AT Morgan dollars, I do occassionally bid on one for a Morgan year set, but I'm not willing to pay more than retail.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>Are you implying that breaking the rules that were agreed to when joining Ebay is the only way to guarantee a profit? >>
If it were against the rules Ebay would not allow it.
I for one have taken some hits on prices by leaving items up when I should have taken them down. The key for me is lack of activity on the item, lack of watchers, and what is going on with similar items. Too many times I have found my items did not turn up in a search, when that happens the items comes down. I am not going to give a $100 coin away for $5, to do so is just stupid.
I realize that many buyers are willing to pay a reasonable price, and will bid a reasonable price, but if no one else is going to bid on that item because it did not appear in a search then that maximum bid is never realized.
With all the changes the past few months Ebay has made it is harder for buyers to just browse a category, and if Ebay is going to make an item harder to find I'll be damned if I feel obligated to give it away. The greed is not the sellers but Ebay’s for putting the seller in the position where they have to chose between paying extra fee's for items such as Highlighting, Bold, Subtitles and of course the big one - Featured Plus – or taking a chance that it will never be seen.
From what I have read so far in this thread the ones that get angry are the buyers who want something for next to nothing. I'm sure they would feel different the first time they took a big hit on an item that failed to get included in search results.
Ebay has clearly stated in this last round of changes that the bigger the power seller the more their items will be displayed in search results. It should be equal for all sellers, but the fact of the matter is that it is not.
It is your prerogative to disagree with this viewpoint, but I like other sellers are collectors also, if you feel it should go at any price when it is listed then I will be happy to pay you five cents on the dollar for all the PCGS graded coins your willing to part with. >>
Well said Timothy!
All the whiners are forgetting one very important thing which they just cannot seem to grasp. EBays bidding policies!
Just because someone bid's $100 for you're $100 item does not mean that it will sell for $100 (like a TRUE auction as so many like to quote)!
And it doesn't even matter how well you prepare your auction in format and photo's. If it doesn't come up in the searches. it doesn't attract bidders.
Perhaps eBay should change their bidding policies to be more reflective of a true auction.
The name is LEE!
Not mentioning in the auction and then ending is bad form,I agree.It seems some sellers don't have the compunction to make their auctions "complete" by covering the possibility that some auctions with no bids might be ended early.
I don't think its bad to end an auction with no bids early if it's made clear in the auction terms that this can happen,however. Why should a seller have his good stuff held hostage on ebay just because there might be a watcher or two in the eleventh hour?
If I have a reason to end an item that has no bids in the eleventh hour, are you saying that is a no-no?
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Speech in Washington, 16 Apr. 1953, in Public Papers of Presidents 1953 (1960) p. 182
<< <i>I don't think its bad to end an auction with no bids early if it's made clear in the auction terms that this can happen,however. Why should a seller have his good stuff held hostage on ebay just because there might be a watcher or two in the eleventh hour?
If I have a reason to end an item that has no bids in the eleventh hour, are you saying that is a no-no? >>
If someone explicitly mentions that they reserve the right to cancel an auction at any time while it has no bids, that's totally cool. At least then the prospective bidders know the terms if they plan to "watch" and wait for a snipe. Then they could either take their chances and wait -- knowing it may no longer be available -- or they could lock in a bid to get the action started.
Like so many things in selling on eBay, full disclosure of terms is the key.
<< <i>We got tired of having people waiting to the last few secons and use sniping software... so we sometimes end early to defeat it... >>
This does not defeat anything. It only means that the coin will not sell.
I like sniping. It takes the emotion out of bidding which is good for the buyer.
If there is another active bidder, I lose IF he/she is wiling to pay more than my max bid.
I just place my bid at the last possible second.
In the end, I win alot of auctions but I lose often times as well.
The best reason to use sniper software.
You can have a life and not be up in the middle of the night in your pajamas and making your wife mad, just to get your bidding in manually at the end of the auction.
"Why are you glued to the darn computer"...ect.ect.
I on the other hand, get up the next day and see that I won two out of three auctions that I bid on.
Now, that is what I'm talking about. AND at my price.
Gardnerville, NV
=========================
Our Website -->Innovation, Native & Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions
<< <i>If someone explicitly mentions that they reserve the right to cancel an auction at any time while it has no bids, that's totally cool.
Like so many things in selling on eBay, full disclosure of terms is the key. >>
I always thought that buyers wanted listings with shorter, less complicated terms of sale. If sellers were to explicitly mention *everything* they have a right to do in their auction listings, it would take an hour and a half to read each one.
I guess it's really true that you can't please everybody.
what others do doesn't bother me as much as what i do...it's been a guiding force within-so hey if a coin i'm watching was ended early there's no grief as it's something i don't do
i've mailed out give aways as mentioned with a smile knowing this time the other guy won...;-)
proxy aspects of bidding are a 2way street and pretty sweet traveled or paying it's toll
cheers
<< <i>I always thought that buyers wanted listings with shorter, less complicated terms of sale. If sellers were to explicitly mention *everything* they have a right to do in their auction listings, it would take an hour and a half to read each one. >>
Bidders generally don't want sellers adding their own unusual terms to the sale because they prefer to see the seller default to the "typical" selling policies. But if a seller is intending to deviate significantly than what most buyers would reasonably expect, then yes, disclose it. No one needs to disclose specific terms when the terms are pretty much the "usual" terms of sale.
To be successful, one needs to do research on previous sales.
If it a more common item, it will have sales history on what it goes for.
So If you bid in the range, you might get it...unless someone NEEDS it more than you.
And the watcher thing means nothing. I watch sometimes to see If I got a good price on one I purchased or am thinking about purchasing in the future.
Many times it has nothing to do with bidding on that particular auction.
Gardnerville, NV
=========================
Our Website -->Innovation, Native & Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions
hi, i'm tom.
i do not doctor coins like some who post in here.
No way could a seller cover every possibility in auction terms but I think a good many sellers are just plain lazy and/or don't have the critical thinking skills to come up with some basic auction terms that are clear (or should be clear) to potential buyers.
A potential buyer should not be faced with reading a manifesto but should be ready to get beyond the pictures and do a little reading of the auction terms.
Here's an example:
I won't ship to address outside the U.S. Reason: Neither Delivery confirmation or Insurance is available for purchase.
Reading between the lines, an intelligent potential buyer who reads could conclude that the seller is attempting to protect "all parties involved" interests with an auction term like this.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Speech in Washington, 16 Apr. 1953, in Public Papers of Presidents 1953 (1960) p. 182