<< <i>So if I can make aware to any newer collectors that your coin would be a mistake (as im sure you know) then I did well in steering them clear of your garbage. >>
Why would it be a mistake? You keep contradicting yourself. In a post in my thread on the BST, you say that it is a 62, and now you just say it's overgraded. In any event, you haven't seen the coin in hand, and if you did, you would realize your comments were way off base. The coin is no doubt accurately graded.
I'm curious why you keep saying buying the coin would be a mistake. Why would I think buying it was a mistake? Why would others?
-Paul >>
It would be a mistake because, just like you, any eventual buyer will not be able to look at that coin and be happy. It has some serious negative eye appeal, and for $775, a buyer could certainley do much better. As far as calling it a technical 62 in your BST thread, after looking at the pics a bit more, I have concluded that an UNC lib could get no baggier than yours is, and your coin should be an MS60. Its a shame that the 60 grade is so rarely given by the TPG's. But if it did sit in 60 plastic, I cant see that any dealer/collector would ever look at that coin and wonder if it had an upgrade shot. Good luck with your sale on that coin Paul. I'd imagine it will take some time to dump it, even at your $50 back of sheet bid (another indicator that you yourself feel the coin is a true dog).
As long as gecko would not mind others on the forums dissing his own coins for sale on the BST then I think its OK for him to do.---------------------------BigE
<< <i>Unless the coin is misrepresented, STFU. Otherwise, a warning to others who may be new or less knowledgable is totally justified. >>
If a MS60 coin sits in a 62 holder, is it "misrepresented" Perry? Look at that Lib and then tell me its a 62. My comment in his BST thread WAS a warning to new and less knowledgable collectors on how not to waste $775. The mere fact that the seller's asking price is $50 behind sheet bid is enough of a self admittance to the coin being a dog and overgraded. Would you, as a dealer Perry, ever recommend that coin to one of your clients at that price?
What if a coin is obviously cleaned or AT and it's not mentioned in the description? Should someone say anything about this? Or should we allow a board member to get shafted?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Well...I notice that this topic was the primary subject of my 1st post on this forum (after some time as a lurker)
If you notice a "problem" coin on ebay...do you have the right to contact all potential bidders with your "opinion" (ie critique)? Can you post an opinion to that lisitng? No...
Can you come here to the "US Coin Forum" to discuss it (even to the point of ad naseum)? Yes
If you were to place yourself near my ( or any other sellers) table at a show and announce to one and all what you really thought of a coin (or coins) in said case...you would most likely be asked to move on (and shut up) and/or quite possibly removed from the show by security.
IMHO...it is in poor taste to offer an unsolicited opinion of another person or their possesions...in any situation.
If you find someone listing something on the BST that you think is overgraded or improperly presented... I would suggest the following...
1...you might try ignoring it...but if that is not possible for you then...
2...PM the person with your thoughts/concerns...if it is a simple matter of grade opinion...hey...you can agree to disagree...but it is between the two of you...
3...However, if you feel that there is a scam going on...then contact the Mod for the BST and voice your concerns...
Seriously, gecko... let's say you listed a car of yours in the want-ads... would you like it if someone took out an ad below yours that said "Hey everyone...I think the car listed in the ad above this one is a POS"? OR " I know where you can get a car just like this one for a whole lot cheaper!!"
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
Gecko- I don't think the coin is a dog. If you saw this coin in person you wouldn't think so either. It is what it is, an accurately graded MS62 gold piece. Gold is softer than other metals, so bagmarks are often deeper. Just because I have it priced at a pretty much wholesale level does not mean that I think it is a dog. I have no regret buying this coin and I don't think any buyer would either.
<< <i>What you guys are actually suggesting is that if a coin offered for sale on ebay is an overpriced, overgraded, overhyped dog, then by all means link it here so we can rip it to shreds. But if a coin offered for sale on our BST is an overpriced, overgraded, overhyped dog, then just bite your tongue because its a fellow forum member who is trying to dump his garbage on the next ill informed collector who opens up that page. Very double standardish, and actually a very sad outlook. If a coin is a dog, I dont care if joebumblewad on ebay is selling it, or Anaconda Rare Coins (great dealer by the way) is selling it, the coin should not be held to two different standards just because of the person selling it. >>
I don't think so, most of what gets posted from e-bay is counterfiet, or mis represented coins (overhyped). It would seem that most of the arguments here say make comments on the BST if these criteria fit.
If it is a coin pic a price and a reasonable description, leave it alone. The buy at this point should be able to do his own research and determine if it is overpriced or a dog at this point. If the buyer still wants it so be it.
<< <i>What if a coin is obviously cleaned or AT and it's not mentioned in the description? Should someone say anything about this? Or should we allow a board member to get shafted? >>
ATS, it seems appropriate to talk about obvious but unmentioned AT in the BST thread itself, along with attacks on the seller. Just an observation.
I just read through a bunch of the comments the OP has posted in the BST. The vast majority of his comments were posted in threads where there was no hype at all; just a quick description and images that clearly showed the coin being offered. He should just STFU and mind his own business.
<< <i>Is it bad policy to critique the coins offered on our BST? >>
When people answer in a manner he disagrees with he argues against their opinion.
I don't get it. Why ask others opinion if your mind is already made up?
But since you asked... Yes... I think is was "bad policy" in this instance. It's not that the BST should be off-limits but I just don't see that the seller did anything wrong in this case.
If you were to place yourself near my ( or any other sellers) table at a show and announce to one and all what you really thought of a coin (or coins) in said case...you would most likely be asked to move on (and shut up) and/or quite possibly removed from the show by security.
i read that as, dealers protect one another and get out of my way so i can rip a potential customer.
i always understood the bourse floor, in front of the table, to be a public space allowing freedom of speech, especially about coins.
shouting at the top of your lungs to one and all is not what i mean.. but discussing it with a person who is standing next to you in a normal conversation is not allowed? geez.
dealers protect each other like a clique. if your coins are up to snuff, graded correctly, priced fairly..
why do you have a worry in the world?
makes one wonder huh?
with grade inflation a current fact in the coin world it is a wonder an old school collector can even control his laughter with the current situation. dealers of course enjoy the current situation of ranking coins in plastic and allowing them to creep up in price/grade.
more power to the collector i say! open discussion always.
<< <i>I just read through a bunch of the comments the OP has posted in the BST. The vast majority of his comments were posted in threads where there was no hype at all; just a quick description and images that clearly showed the coin being offered. He should just STFU and mind his own business.
Russ, NCNE >>
It is seldom that I post comments on the BST. Kindly link to us this "vast majority" you speak of.
IMO, the large photo is what makes this coin look worse.
The bag marks on this coin IMO is typical of how you find gold graded as MS62. It is quite away from the nastiest gold that I have seen that might warrant an MS61 or 60 grade.
<< <i> Not to be some kind of jerk, but I doubt anyone would pay more than $1 each. I wouldnt even take them if you offered to send them to me for free. >>
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i> I send a coin to PCGS with a "v" scratch like that, and it gets BB'd for sure! How did that slab with the graffitti? >>
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<<<< It is seldom that I post comments on the BST. Kindly link to us this "vast majority" you speak of. >>
Your comment on this thread was a real peach:
<< Not to be some kind of jerk, but I doubt anyone would pay more than $1 each. I wouldnt even take them if you offered to send them to me for free. >> See, you are a jerk. Number 4 or 5 right. Bad taste, bad manners, bad attitude.
gecko109, I tend to agree with you that it is not a coin that I would spend MS62 money on. However, to cut down the coin as you did publicly is in very poor taste, and I cannot agree with that. The seller has down nothing wrong at all.
1. The coin was not hyped; it was posted for what it was/is..... an MS62 graded by the #1 or #2 grading service, however your opinion goes on that.
2. The seller was discounting the coin.... $50 back of bid if I recall correctly.
3. Very clear pictures of what you would be getting.
If you had an issue with the coin, a PM might have been warranted. But the public critique on the sellers BST listing was NOT an appropriate venue. If your rationale is correct and allowable, I guess all of us could 'interfere' with anyone else's offerings with critiques..... and I doubt that will last very long.
I find it hard to believe that you would be very welcome at very many coin show tables, and coin shops, if you are that blunt and helpful with your critiques.
<< <i>If you were to place yourself near my ( or any other sellers) table at a show and announce to one and all what you really thought of a coin (or coins) in said case...you would most likely be asked to move on (and shut up) and/or quite possibly removed from the show by security.
i read that as, dealers protect one another and get out of my way so i can rip a potential customer.
i always understood the bourse floor, in front of the table, to be a public space allowing freedom of speech, especially about coins.
shouting at the top of your lungs to one and all is not what i mean.. but discussing it with a person who is standing next to you in a normal conversation is not allowed? geez.
dealers protect each other like a clique. if your coins are up to snuff, graded correctly, priced fairly..
why do you have a worry in the world?
makes one wonder huh?
with grade inflation a current fact in the coin world it is a wonder an old school collector can even control his laughter with the current situation. dealers of course enjoy the current situation of ranking coins in plastic and allowing them to creep up in price/grade.
more power to the collector i say! open discussion always. >>
fc...perhaps I need to clarify...
If you were to come by my table and offer a comment on any of my coins, that is your perogative...no problem. We may agree on grading...we may not...again...no problem...
If, on the other hand you were to "permanently" plant yourself by my table and announce to any and all that you think my coins are no good and tell all folks coming by my table that they should avoid my coins...then, sir...we have a problem...
If you wanted to put a post-it note on any of my coins saying "fc thinks this is overgraded"...sorry...not appropriate... heck...I wouldn't even let HRH do that ( but I would respect his opinion)...
If I have a customer at my table looking over some coins...unless they have asked you to offer an opinion, it is not your place to come up and offer one...
Tell me...how often has someone here on this forum "stood up" to offer their opinion of PCGS and attempted to question their grading abilities? ...and do they think this is OK? ...some have even been warned and then booted for not "minding their manners"...
Sure...the "other side of the table" is "open turf"... but there is a thing called "couth"... having respect for others... etiquite...
and then the good ole down-home expression... "opinions are like ######s ...everybody's got one..."
...and for all the folks who are thouroghly convinced that ALL DEALERS are banded together in some grand scheme to rip everyone off...
...please get out from under your aluminum helmet and get a freakin' life!!!!!
...gosh darn it...
There are nice people and not nice people in every part of reality... some dealers are pitas and SO ARE SOME COLLECTORS...
sheesh...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
Some boards have policies against posts from what they call "price police."
You can argue that it's interference or that it's good healthy free speech, but one thing is for sure -- I'm less likely to use the BST board to try to sell something. Unless I'm alone in this regard, the community can count on the BST board becoming a lesser resource for trading all coins -- including what you may find desirable.
Why do you find it necessary to rebut everyone who responds to your question with an answer that you don't like or don't agree with? Clearly, you had already fixed on the answer and were not interested in surveying other opinions. Why did you ask the question?
Couple of things.... 1) Commoncents (Paul) is a good person and I haven't seen him try to rip off anyone or take advantage of them. His pricing on stuff isn't outrageous and his grading isn't out of the ballpark either. You don't like the coin/price, move on or PM him if you are interested in a better price. 2) The other one....well, looking back on more than a few of his coins, there has always been hype. I have never been interested in any of them. 3) It is bad form to go off on someone's coin/price on the BST (or even ebay) if they aren't being untruthful or overly hyping (ie....calling it NT when it is clearly AT, or rainbow when there is a wisp of single color toning, or MS67 when it is clearly XF, etc etc etc). Again, bad form.
All that said, many people seem to be missing something VERY important that TomB pointed out earlier (that I didn't even notice because I ignore seateddimes' coins and most of his posts)......
<< <i>One other point I should make is that if you clicked the ebay link of the member selling the coin that was previously sold through Stack's then you have a rover.ebay.com cookie planted on your computer. Using these cookies within active links on the PCGS or NGC boards will get your posts removed and will get you banned, but PCGS apparently does not care if these links are embedded within the sigline of a user. In short, rover.ebay.com is a referral link that puts a tracking cookie on your computer so that each time you complete a transaction on ebay within the next two weeks a small percentage of the income generated from that transaction will be sent to the person who started the link as a royalty. This practice encourages spam on message boards. >>
Boch, I dont understand at all what tomb was saying. Im not stick poking here, I just want to be sure I understand what was said. I never heard of that before. Thats the only reason I didnt comment on that one. Can you shed alittle light on this for me, If you dont mind of course.
Essentially, if one clicks a rover.ebay.com link then any ebay activity that you engage in for the next two weeks will generate revenue for the person who placed the link that you clicked. This revenue will come out of your ebay insertion fees, final value fees, gallery listing fees, etc...It might seem inconsequential, but where do you think ebay gets the money to pay these commissions? Ebay gets the money from folks who list on ebay through higher seller fees, which are then passed on to buyers.
No. Any ebay link won't do that. One has to register with ebay as an affiliate referrer then one has to actively embed the link with the URL address to obtain the commission. This does not happen by accident. Folks place these links to generate income for themselves by placing tracking cookies on the computers of unsuspecting internet users. I have my computer security setup to disallow a redirection such as this, therefore, if someone embeds this rover.ebay.com address in their URL my computer will block the procedure and will tell me what the person who placed the link was attempting to do. The thread that so many folks have opened regarding the Seated dime might generate substantial income for the person who listed the dime on the BST.
I would not accuse someone who sells an $800 coin at $50 under Greysheet bid as dumping the coin. Chances are if theis person were to walk into their local B&M store, he would get an offer of Bid -10%-20% depending on the dealer (if the coin is listed for $775 and sheets for $825, then the seller is offering it above wholesale IMO).
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
<< <i>Is it bad policy to critique the coins offered on our BST? >>
Unless it's an outright scam heck yes it's bad form. Not to mention all the chat sessions on the BST that IMO is rude as it keeps bumping certain threads and is unfair to others. On another note, some might feel something is overpriced that they don't have a clue what certain coins trade for in the real world.
I've had a few coins certain members thought were priced too high on the BST. Fair enough. AND, I've also sold some of those same coins to a couple dealers for more! Go figure. My opinion...... too many busybodies around here.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
<< <i>What you guys are actually suggesting is that if a coin offered for sale on ebay is an overpriced, overgraded, overhyped dog, then by all means link it here so we can rip it to shreds. But if a coin offered for sale on our BST is an overpriced, overgraded, overhyped dog, then just bite your tongue because its a fellow forum member who is trying to dump his garbage on the next ill informed collector who opens up that page. Very double standardish, and actually a very sad outlook. If a coin is a dog, I dont care if joebumblewad on ebay is selling it, or Anaconda Rare Coins (great dealer by the way) is selling it, the coin should not be held to two different standards just because of the person selling it. >>
Scam ebay auctions deserve to be brought out into the open. That way they can be reported and blocked faster, as well as increase awareness amongst newbies.
BST threads, as long as they are not misrepresentative of the coin, are perfectly legitimate, no matter what the price advertised is. Nobody is forcing you to buy it. In the event where there have actually been suspicious BST threads, they have been flamed.
If someone can justify their $1700 hammer price claim, then there is no right for you claim it's overhyping the coin.
Paul should actually be PMing me any minute with a big thank you. Apparently someone decided that for almost $800, they could do no better on a baggy common date , overgraded MS62 $10 liberty. And to think I may have expedited this transaction Paul.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>So if I can make aware to any newer collectors that your coin would be a mistake (as im sure you know) then I did well in steering them clear of your garbage. >>
Why would it be a mistake? You keep contradicting yourself. In a post in my thread on the BST, you say that it is a 62, and now you just say it's overgraded. In any event, you haven't seen the coin in hand, and if you did, you would realize your comments were way off base. The coin is no doubt accurately graded.
I'm curious why you keep saying buying the coin would be a mistake. Why would I think buying it was a mistake? Why would others?
-Paul >>
It would be a mistake because, just like you, any eventual buyer will not be able to look at that coin and be happy. It has some serious negative eye appeal, and for $775, a buyer could certainley do much better. As far as calling it a technical 62 in your BST thread, after looking at the pics a bit more, I have concluded that an UNC lib could get no baggier than yours is, and your coin should be an MS60. Its a shame that the 60 grade is so rarely given by the TPG's. But if it did sit in 60 plastic, I cant see that any dealer/collector would ever look at that coin and wonder if it had an upgrade shot. Good luck with your sale on that coin Paul. I'd imagine it will take some time to dump it, even at your $50 back of sheet bid (another indicator that you yourself feel the coin is a true dog).
<< <i>Unless the coin is misrepresented, STFU. Otherwise, a warning to others who may be new or less knowledgable is totally justified. >>
If a MS60 coin sits in a 62 holder, is it "misrepresented" Perry? Look at that Lib and then tell me its a 62. My comment in his BST thread WAS a warning to new and less knowledgable collectors on how not to waste $775. The mere fact that the seller's asking price is $50 behind sheet bid is enough of a self admittance to the coin being a dog and overgraded. Would you, as a dealer Perry, ever recommend that coin to one of your clients at that price?
Dont you people have jobs?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If you notice a "problem" coin on ebay...do you have the right to contact all potential bidders with your "opinion" (ie critique)? Can you post an opinion to that lisitng? No...
Can you come here to the "US Coin Forum" to discuss it (even to the point of ad naseum)? Yes
If you were to place yourself near my ( or any other sellers) table at a show and announce to one and all what you really thought of a coin (or coins) in said case...you would most likely be asked to move on (and shut up) and/or quite possibly removed from the show by security.
IMHO...it is in poor taste to offer an unsolicited opinion of another person or their possesions...in any situation.
If you find someone listing something on the BST that you think is overgraded or improperly presented... I would suggest the following...
1...you might try ignoring it...but if that is not possible for you then...
2...PM the person with your thoughts/concerns...if it is a simple matter of grade opinion...hey...you can agree to disagree...but it is between the two of you...
3...However, if you feel that there is a scam going on...then contact the Mod for the BST and voice your concerns...
Seriously, gecko... let's say you listed a car of yours in the want-ads... would you like it if someone took out an ad below yours that said "Hey everyone...I think the car listed in the ad above this one is a POS"? OR " I know where you can get a car just like this one for a whole lot cheaper!!"
-Paul
<< <i>What you guys are actually suggesting is that if a coin offered for sale on ebay is an overpriced, overgraded, overhyped dog, then by all means link it here so we can rip it to shreds. But if a coin offered for sale on our BST is an overpriced, overgraded, overhyped dog, then just bite your tongue because its a fellow forum member who is trying to dump his garbage on the next ill informed collector who opens up that page. Very double standardish, and actually a very sad outlook. If a coin is a dog, I dont care if joebumblewad on ebay is selling it, or Anaconda Rare Coins (great dealer by the way) is selling it, the coin should not be held to two different standards just because of the person selling it. >>
I don't think so, most of what gets posted from e-bay is counterfiet, or mis represented coins (overhyped). It would seem that most of the arguments here say make comments on the BST if these criteria fit.
If it is a coin pic a price and a reasonable description, leave it alone. The buy at this point should be able to do his own research and determine if it is overpriced or a dog at this point. If the buyer still wants it so be it.
<< <i>What if a coin is obviously cleaned or AT and it's not mentioned in the description? Should someone say anything about this? Or should we allow a board member to get shafted? >>
ATS, it seems appropriate to talk about obvious but unmentioned AT in the BST thread itself, along with attacks on the seller. Just an observation.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Is it bad policy to critique the coins offered on our BST? >>
When people answer in a manner he disagrees with he argues against their opinion.
I don't get it. Why ask others opinion if your mind is already made up?
But since you asked... Yes... I think is was "bad policy" in this instance. It's not that the BST should be off-limits but I just don't see that the seller did anything wrong in this case.
i read that as, dealers protect one another and get out of my way so i can rip a potential customer.
i always understood the bourse floor, in front of the table, to be a public space allowing freedom of
speech, especially about coins.
shouting at the top of your lungs to one and all is not what i mean.. but discussing it with a person
who is standing next to you in a normal conversation is not allowed? geez.
dealers protect each other like a clique. if your coins are up to snuff, graded correctly, priced fairly..
why do you have a worry in the world?
makes one wonder huh?
with grade inflation a current fact in the coin world it is a wonder an old school collector can even
control his laughter with the current situation. dealers of course enjoy the current situation of
ranking coins in plastic and allowing them to creep up in price/grade.
more power to the collector i say! open discussion always.
<< <i>I just read through a bunch of the comments the OP has posted in the BST. The vast majority of his comments were posted in threads where there was no hype at all; just a quick description and images that clearly showed the coin being offered. He should just STFU and mind his own business.
Russ, NCNE >>
It is seldom that I post comments on the BST. Kindly link to us this "vast majority" you speak of.
IMO, the large photo is what makes this coin look worse.
The bag marks on this coin IMO is typical of how you find gold graded as MS62. It is quite away from the nastiest gold that I have seen that might warrant an MS61 or 60 grade.
I have looked at the coin. IMO, it is a 62.
Joe.
<< <i>
It is seldom that I post comments on the BST. Kindly link to us this "vast majority" you speak of.
Your comment on this thread was a real peach:
<< <i> Not to be some kind of jerk, but I doubt anyone would pay more than $1 each. I wouldnt even take them if you offered to send them to me for free. >>
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>
It is seldom that I post comments on the BST. Kindly link to us this "vast majority" you speak of.
This thread here has another helpful comment:
<< <i> I send a coin to PCGS with a "v" scratch like that, and it gets BB'd for sure! How did that slab with the graffitti? >>
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
It is seldom that I post comments on the BST. Kindly link to us this "vast majority" you speak of. >>
Your comment on this thread was a real peach:
<< Not to be some kind of jerk, but I doubt anyone would pay more than $1 each. I wouldnt even take them if you offered to send them to me for free. >>
See, you are a jerk. Number 4 or 5 right. Bad taste, bad manners, bad attitude.
<< <i>Your comment on this thread was a real peach: >>
Busted!
<< <i>Hey speaking of good proper form , how is the above for just that? Keep up the good form Russ, owner and dealer on and of the CU. >>
I see the village idiot has chimed in.
<< <i>It is seldom that I post comments on the BST. Kindly link to us this "vast majority" you speak of. >>
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=637872
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=638322
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=637476
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=632384
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=631599
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=632732
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=627869
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=627895
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=620927
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=625373
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=623990
And that isn't even all of them.
Russ, NCNE
1. The coin was not hyped; it was posted for what it was/is..... an MS62 graded by the #1 or #2 grading service, however your opinion goes on that.
2. The seller was discounting the coin.... $50 back of bid if I recall correctly.
3. Very clear pictures of what you would be getting.
If you had an issue with the coin, a PM might have been warranted. But the public critique on the sellers BST listing was NOT an appropriate venue. If your rationale is correct and allowable, I guess all of us could 'interfere' with anyone else's offerings with critiques..... and I doubt that will last very long.
I find it hard to believe that you would be very welcome at very many coin show tables, and coin shops, if you are that blunt and helpful with your critiques.
<< <i>If you were to place yourself near my ( or any other sellers) table at a show and announce to one and all what you really thought of a coin (or coins) in said case...you would most likely be asked to move on (and shut up) and/or quite possibly removed from the show by security.
i read that as, dealers protect one another and get out of my way so i can rip a potential customer.
i always understood the bourse floor, in front of the table, to be a public space allowing freedom of
speech, especially about coins.
shouting at the top of your lungs to one and all is not what i mean.. but discussing it with a person
who is standing next to you in a normal conversation is not allowed? geez.
dealers protect each other like a clique. if your coins are up to snuff, graded correctly, priced fairly..
why do you have a worry in the world?
makes one wonder huh?
with grade inflation a current fact in the coin world it is a wonder an old school collector can even
control his laughter with the current situation. dealers of course enjoy the current situation of
ranking coins in plastic and allowing them to creep up in price/grade.
more power to the collector i say! open discussion always. >>
fc...perhaps I need to clarify...
If you were to come by my table and offer a comment on any of my coins, that is your perogative...no problem. We may agree on grading...we may not...again...no problem...
If, on the other hand you were to "permanently" plant yourself by my table and announce to any and all that you think my coins are no good and tell all folks coming by my table that they should avoid my coins...then, sir...we have a problem...
If you wanted to put a post-it note on any of my coins saying "fc thinks this is overgraded"...sorry...not appropriate... heck...I wouldn't even let HRH do that ( but I would respect his opinion)...
If I have a customer at my table looking over some coins...unless they have asked you to offer an opinion, it is not your place to come up and offer one...
Tell me...how often has someone here on this forum "stood up" to offer their opinion of PCGS and attempted to question their grading abilities? ...and do they think this is OK? ...some have even been warned and then booted for not "minding their manners"...
Sure...the "other side of the table" is "open turf"... but there is a thing called "couth"... having respect for others... etiquite...
and then the good ole down-home expression... "opinions are like ######s ...everybody's got one..."
...and for all the folks who are thouroghly convinced that ALL DEALERS are banded together in some grand scheme to rip everyone off...
...please get out from under your aluminum helmet and get a freakin' life!!!!!
...gosh darn it...
There are nice people and not nice people in every part of reality... some dealers are pitas and SO ARE SOME COLLECTORS...
sheesh...
but that is about it for me in this thread. not much else to say. opinions have been formed
and nothing will really change them.
seaeaglecoins,
thanks for clarifying. i read too much into your post and now i understand what you mean.
you are right. there is common sense boundaries to respect.
You can argue that it's interference or that it's good healthy free speech, but one thing is for sure -- I'm less likely to use the BST board to try to sell something. Unless I'm alone in this regard, the community can count on the BST board becoming a lesser resource for trading all coins -- including what you may find desirable.
Clearly, you had already fixed on the answer and were not interested in surveying other opinions.
Why did you ask the question?
Couple of things....
1) Commoncents (Paul) is a good person and I haven't seen him try to rip off anyone or take advantage of them. His pricing on stuff isn't outrageous and his grading isn't out of the ballpark either. You don't like the coin/price, move on or PM him if you are interested in a better price.
2) The other one....well, looking back on more than a few of his coins, there has always been hype. I have never been interested in any of them.
3) It is bad form to go off on someone's coin/price on the BST (or even ebay) if they aren't being untruthful or overly hyping (ie....calling it NT when it is clearly AT, or rainbow when there is a wisp of single color toning, or MS67 when it is clearly XF, etc etc etc). Again, bad form.
All that said, many people seem to be missing something VERY important that TomB pointed out earlier (that I didn't even notice because I ignore seateddimes' coins and most of his posts)......
<< <i>One other point I should make is that if you clicked the ebay link of the member selling the coin that was previously sold through Stack's then you have a rover.ebay.com cookie planted on your computer. Using these cookies within active links on the PCGS or NGC boards will get your posts removed and will get you banned, but PCGS apparently does not care if these links are embedded within the sigline of a user. In short, rover.ebay.com is a referral link that puts a tracking cookie on your computer so that each time you complete a transaction on ebay within the next two weeks a small percentage of the income generated from that transaction will be sent to the person who started the link as a royalty. This practice encourages spam on message boards. >>
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
A new "digital sticker" that you can just reply to the BST listings if they merit...
<< <i>Perhaps I've thought of a way to avoid all future problems as brought out by the OPer...
A new "digital sticker" that you can just reply to the BST listings if they merit...
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Is it bad policy to critique the coins offered on our BST? >>
Unless it's an outright scam heck yes it's bad form. Not to mention all the chat sessions on the BST that IMO is rude as it keeps bumping certain threads
and is unfair to others. On another note, some might feel something is overpriced that they don't have a clue what certain coins trade for in the real world.
I've had a few coins certain members thought were priced too high on the BST. Fair enough. AND, I've also sold some of those same coins to a couple dealers for more!
Go figure.
Jade Rare Coin eBay Listings
Unless you are in the middle of a transaction with OP, MYOB.
<< <i>What you guys are actually suggesting is that if a coin offered for sale on ebay is an overpriced, overgraded, overhyped dog, then by all means link it here so we can rip it to shreds. But if a coin offered for sale on our BST is an overpriced, overgraded, overhyped dog, then just bite your tongue because its a fellow forum member who is trying to dump his garbage on the next ill informed collector who opens up that page. Very double standardish, and actually a very sad outlook. If a coin is a dog, I dont care if joebumblewad on ebay is selling it, or Anaconda Rare Coins (great dealer by the way) is selling it, the coin should not be held to two different standards just because of the person selling it. >>
Scam ebay auctions deserve to be brought out into the open. That way they can be reported and blocked faster, as well as increase awareness amongst newbies.
BST threads, as long as they are not misrepresentative of the coin, are perfectly legitimate, no matter what the price advertised is. Nobody is forcing you to buy it. In the event where there have actually been suspicious BST threads, they have been flamed.
If someone can justify their $1700 hammer price claim, then there is no right for you claim it's overhyping the coin.
End of story.