<< <i>You probably have bought more gold than me. All I have bought in my 3+ years of collecting is a 12 coin gold type set which I have built piece by piece. All 12 are slabbed by the way. How many certified gold libs do you think I have looked at during this arduous task? And I firmly stand behind my opinion that Paul's lib had far too many contact marks to be a legit 62. If ever there was a case for an MS60, that was it! Im allowed to have an opinion on any coin posted on these boards, and am also allowed to voice it, which I did. >>
Geck- only three years in the hobby makes you a novice. I bet most of your coins are problem coins and you don't even know it.
OK, I will try. An idiot is a person in a private station, or a layman. Now, that is not so bad is it, g109? An apology is really not difficult. I have to do it multiple times a day. One can actually grow to embrace the habit. I would expect a Firefighter to make the magnanimous gesture. Respectfully, and Without Malice. John Curlis
<< <i>You probably have bought more gold than me. All I have bought in my 3+ years of collecting is a 12 coin gold type set which I have built piece by piece. All 12 are slabbed by the way. How many certified gold libs do you think I have looked at during this arduous task? And I firmly stand behind my opinion that Paul's lib had far too many contact marks to be a legit 62. If ever there was a case for an MS60, that was it! Im allowed to have an opinion on any coin posted on these boards, and am also allowed to voice it, which I did. >>
Geck- only three years in the hobby makes you a novice. I bet most of your coins are problem coins and you don't even know it. >>
Although I have well over 400 coins, only 46 are slabbed. But those 46 slabbed coins represent about 95% of my collection's value. So although "technically" most of my coins could be problem coins potentially, the bulk value of my collection is doing just fine! But I greatly appreciate your concern!
Now, that is a step in the right direction, g109. If we could slightly reduce what could be interpreted as a sarcastic bent, we could be on our way to the magnanimous gesture. Respectfully, John Curlis
John, are you an arbitrator? If not, you should consider it. Although you are, with excellent intentions, trying to get me to apologize to Paul, since I truly feel I have done nothing wrong any apology would just be plastic at best. It would take a change of my own perceptions of the events contained within this thread to offer a sincere apology. Since I neither feel any remorse for my actions, nor am I a "fake" person, an apology wont be coming anytime soon. Respectfully, Phil.
<< <i>John, are you an arbitrator? If not, you should consider it. Although you are, with excellent intentions, trying to get me to apologize to Paul, since I truly feel I have done nothing wrong any apology would just be plastic at best. >>
<< <i>To be honest, all viewpoints have been discussed ad naseum, and I for one would like to see this thread either nuked, or locked. Respectfully, Phil. >>
Or you could stop responding. That would kill it pretty fast also.
g109, thank you for your courteous words. Before you determine a final position, I would ask you to consider that there are other meanings of the gesture of apology. The definition is to make ones' intent clear without admission of guilt or regret. Think of it as a bridge between reasonable, logical people( 2 words you recently used).Respectfully, John Curlis
<< <i>You probably have bought more gold than me. All I have bought in my 3+ years of collecting is a 12 coin gold type set which I have built piece by piece. All 12 are slabbed by the way. How many certified gold libs do you think I have looked at during this arduous task? And I firmly stand behind my opinion that Paul's lib had far too many contact marks to be a legit 62. If ever there was a case for an MS60, that was it! Im allowed to have an opinion on any coin posted on these boards, and am also allowed to voice it, which I did. >>
Geck- only three years in the hobby makes you a novice. I bet most of your coins are problem coins and you don't even know it. >>
Although I have well over 400 coins, only 46 are slabbed. But those 46 slabbed coins represent about 95% of my collection's value. So although "technically" most of my coins could be problem coins potentially, the bulk value of my collection is doing just fine! But I greatly appreciate your concern! >>
Gecko, if you have to rely on the grading companies to tell a problem coin then you probably shouldn't critique coins on the BST.
<< <i>Although I have well over 400 coins, only 46 are slabbed. But those 46 slabbed coins represent about 95% of my collection's value. So although "technically" most of my coins could be problem coins potentially, the bulk value of my collection is doing just fine! But I greatly appreciate your concern! >>
What you don't think problem coins get slabbed and net graded? Low MS slabbed gold is full of this stuff- very few coins graded in the MS60-62 range get that grade by bag marks alone.
I typically don't comment in thread such as this, but I do see a few points.
Given the statement All I have bought in my 3+ years of collecting is a 12 coin gold type: 1) I am very damn sure that the NGC grader(s) who graded the coin in question had more than 3+ years of collecting experience 2) I am equally very damn sure than the graders also have seen (and probably bought) more than 12 type gold coins
Also, based on other circumstances 3) I am really very damn sure that the graders saw the coin in person rather than grading it via a picture
Based on these three points, I am forced to give more credibility to the grade on the slab than the grade in the OP's comments.
<< <i>I typically don't comment in thread such as this, but I do see a few points.
Given the statement All I have bought in my 3+ years of collecting is a 12 coin gold type: 1) I am very damn sure that the NGC grader(s) who graded the coin in question had more than 3+ years of collecting experience 2) I am equally very damn sure than the graders also have seen (and probably bought) more than 12 type gold coins
Also, based on other circumstances 3) I am really very damn sure that the graders saw the coin in person rather than grading it via a picture
Based on these three points, I am forced to give more credibility to the grade on the slab than the grade in the OP's comments. >>
So what you are saying basically is that YOU personally have never seen an overgraded coin in a TPG slab then, correct?
I would estimate the probability high that a 3 year veteran of the coin market who has 95% of his money in top tier TPG slabs, is holding many lower end (ie "problem") coins in that mix. Of course there could be higher end coins as well. But almost certainly there are many surprises that you will eventually find as the years go by.
I have seen coins in person that I wonder about the grade. However, 1) I have come to the conclusion that it is not possible to grade accurately from a picture 2) And even for coins I see in person and even though I have collected coins for that past 14 years and for 6 years as a youth, I still rank my ability to grade as less than the abilities of PCGS and NGC graders.
So if I see a coin I wonder about, I simply do not buy it. And if I am at a show or in a store, I sure do not hang permanently around the dealer's table or store telling everyone who wanders by that I have a concern about the coin's grade. (Which is the "real world" analog to posting a negative comment on the bst thread.) Why? I think my expertise is not close to that of PCGS or NGC graders and I do not want to mislead someone who might think I have enough expertise to make my opinion meaningful.
By the way, if you think I am suggesting your expertise is less than that of NGC graders and that they saw the coin in person and you have not...well, that is surely an opinion one might draw from my comments.
<< <i>I would estimate the probability high that a 3 year veteran of the coin market who has 95% of his money in top tier TPG slabs, is holding many lower end (ie "problem") coins in that mix. Of course there could be higher end coins as well. But almost certainly there are many surprises that you will eventually find as the years go by.
roadrunner >>
You could estimate that, sure. But until you have seen my collection, you couldnt know for sure. I do not argue that even my slabbed coins are not all PQ, and am aware of a hairlined Barber half in PCGS plastic in fact. However, most of the coins in slabs in my collection are solid for the grade. Any particular requests for inspection? Make it quick as the fights start in 16 minutes.
I have seen coins in person that I wonder about the grade. However, 1) I have come to the conclusion that it is not possible to grade accurately from a picture 2) And even for coins I see in person and even though I have collected coins for that past 14 years and for 6 years as a youth, I still rank my ability to grade as less than the abilities of PCGS and NGC graders.
So if I see a coin I wonder about, I simply do not buy it. And if I am at a show or in a store, I sure do not hang permanently around the dealer's table or store telling everyone who wanders by that I have a concern about the coin's grade. (Which is the "real world" analog to posting a negative comment on the bst thread.) Why? I think my expertise is not close to that of PCGS or NGC graders and I do not want to mislead someone who might think I have enough expertise to make my opinion meaningful.
By the way, if you think I am suggesting your expertise is less than that of NGC graders and that they saw the coin in person and you have not...well, that is surely an opinion one might draw from my comments. >>
No argument there at all. But if you were to dig through the BST archives to find the coin in question, as well as my single comment, you might quickly realize that this entire topic has been blown out of proportion. Hey Stevie, take notes from this man, he KNOWS how to make his point known. Just a tad more sophisticated than calling someone an "idiot" or "cement head", wouldnt you agree Stevie?
This is wonderful! The start of courteous observations, responses and reasonable commentary, without guilt or regret for ones' position. The very definition of apology. Respectfully, John Curlis
<< <i>How many times do I have to say the same thing to you? I've said all of them 3 times now.
Steve >>
Sorry Stevie. No time to click and paste 92 times right now, fights are starting. I knew you were weak Stevie, but until now, never realized just how weak.
Comments
<< <i>You probably have bought more gold than me. All I have bought in my 3+ years of collecting is a 12 coin gold type set which I have built piece by piece. All 12 are slabbed by the way. How many certified gold libs do you think I have looked at during this arduous task? And I firmly stand behind my opinion that Paul's lib had far too many contact marks to be a legit 62. If ever there was a case for an MS60, that was it! Im allowed to have an opinion on any coin posted on these boards, and am also allowed to voice it, which I did. >>
Geck- only three years in the hobby makes you a novice. I bet most of your coins are problem coins and you don't even know it.
<< <i>
<< <i>You probably have bought more gold than me. All I have bought in my 3+ years of collecting is a 12 coin gold type set which I have built piece by piece. All 12 are slabbed by the way. How many certified gold libs do you think I have looked at during this arduous task? And I firmly stand behind my opinion that Paul's lib had far too many contact marks to be a legit 62. If ever there was a case for an MS60, that was it! Im allowed to have an opinion on any coin posted on these boards, and am also allowed to voice it, which I did. >>
Geck- only three years in the hobby makes you a novice. I bet most of your coins are problem coins and you don't even know it. >>
Although I have well over 400 coins, only 46 are slabbed. But those 46 slabbed coins represent about 95% of my collection's value. So although "technically" most of my coins could be problem coins potentially, the bulk value of my collection is doing just fine!
<< <i>John, are you an arbitrator? If not, you should consider it. Although you are, with excellent intentions, trying to get me to apologize to Paul, since I truly feel I have done nothing wrong any apology would just be plastic at best. >>
That's okay. This place *loves* plastic.
<< <i>To be honest, all viewpoints have been discussed ad naseum, and I for one would like to see this thread either nuked, or locked. Respectfully, Phil. >>
Or you could stop responding. That would kill it pretty fast also.
"If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around to hear it. Am I still wrong?"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You probably have bought more gold than me. All I have bought in my 3+ years of collecting is a 12 coin gold type set which I have built piece by piece. All 12 are slabbed by the way. How many certified gold libs do you think I have looked at during this arduous task? And I firmly stand behind my opinion that Paul's lib had far too many contact marks to be a legit 62. If ever there was a case for an MS60, that was it! Im allowed to have an opinion on any coin posted on these boards, and am also allowed to voice it, which I did. >>
Geck- only three years in the hobby makes you a novice. I bet most of your coins are problem coins and you don't even know it. >>
Although I have well over 400 coins, only 46 are slabbed. But those 46 slabbed coins represent about 95% of my collection's value. So although "technically" most of my coins could be problem coins potentially, the bulk value of my collection is doing just fine!
Gecko, if you have to rely on the grading companies to tell a problem coin then you probably shouldn't critique coins on the BST.
<< <i>I cannot believe that this thread is still getting replies.
Hey, this is the Open...., I mean the US Coin Forum!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Oh, I see -- southside chicago. Explains a lot but you still have to answer for being an idiot. Idiot. >>
what's THAT supposed to mean?
pot-kettle-black.
Keep your digs personal. Don't generalize. Idiot.
edit: I guess you missed someone's post that said "Don't say here what you wouldn't say to my face."
<< <i>Although I have well over 400 coins, only 46 are slabbed. But those 46 slabbed coins represent about 95% of my collection's value. So although "technically" most of my coins could be problem coins potentially, the bulk value of my collection is doing just fine! But I greatly appreciate your concern! >>
What you don't think problem coins get slabbed and net graded? Low MS slabbed gold is full of this stuff- very few coins graded in the MS60-62 range get that grade by bag marks alone.
Given the statement All I have bought in my 3+ years of collecting is a 12 coin gold type:
1) I am very damn sure that the NGC grader(s) who graded the coin in question had more than 3+ years of collecting experience
2) I am equally very damn sure than the graders also have seen (and probably bought) more than 12 type gold coins
Also, based on other circumstances
3) I am really very damn sure that the graders saw the coin in person rather than grading it via a picture
Based on these three points, I am forced to give more credibility to the grade on the slab than the grade in the OP's comments.
<< <i>I typically don't comment in thread such as this, but I do see a few points.
Given the statement All I have bought in my 3+ years of collecting is a 12 coin gold type:
1) I am very damn sure that the NGC grader(s) who graded the coin in question had more than 3+ years of collecting experience
2) I am equally very damn sure than the graders also have seen (and probably bought) more than 12 type gold coins
Also, based on other circumstances
3) I am really very damn sure that the graders saw the coin in person rather than grading it via a picture
Based on these three points, I am forced to give more credibility to the grade on the slab than the grade in the OP's comments. >>
So what you are saying basically is that YOU personally have never seen an overgraded coin in a TPG slab then, correct?
roadrunner
Steve
I have seen coins in person that I wonder about the grade. However,
1) I have come to the conclusion that it is not possible to grade accurately from a picture
2) And even for coins I see in person and even though I have collected coins for that past 14 years and for 6 years as a youth, I still rank my ability to grade as less than the abilities of PCGS and NGC graders.
So if I see a coin I wonder about, I simply do not buy it. And if I am at a show or in a store, I sure do not hang permanently around the dealer's table or store telling everyone who wanders by that I have a concern about the coin's grade. (Which is the "real world" analog to posting a negative comment on the bst thread.) Why? I think my expertise is not close to that of PCGS or NGC graders and I do not want to mislead someone who might think I have enough expertise to make my opinion meaningful.
By the way, if you think I am suggesting your expertise is less than that of NGC graders and that they saw the coin in person and you have not...well, that is surely an opinion one might draw from my comments.
<< <i>I would estimate the probability high that a 3 year veteran of the coin market who has 95% of his money in top tier TPG slabs, is holding many lower end (ie "problem") coins in that mix. Of course there could be higher end coins as well. But almost certainly there are many surprises that you will eventually find as the years go by.
roadrunner >>
You could estimate that, sure. But until you have seen my collection, you couldnt know for sure. I do not argue that even my slabbed coins are not all PQ, and am aware of a hairlined Barber half in PCGS plastic in fact. However, most of the coins in slabs in my collection are solid for the grade. Any particular requests for inspection? Make it quick as the fights start in 16 minutes.
Steve
<< <i>Gecko109:
I have seen coins in person that I wonder about the grade. However,
1) I have come to the conclusion that it is not possible to grade accurately from a picture
2) And even for coins I see in person and even though I have collected coins for that past 14 years and for 6 years as a youth, I still rank my ability to grade as less than the abilities of PCGS and NGC graders.
So if I see a coin I wonder about, I simply do not buy it. And if I am at a show or in a store, I sure do not hang permanently around the dealer's table or store telling everyone who wanders by that I have a concern about the coin's grade. (Which is the "real world" analog to posting a negative comment on the bst thread.) Why? I think my expertise is not close to that of PCGS or NGC graders and I do not want to mislead someone who might think I have enough expertise to make my opinion meaningful.
By the way, if you think I am suggesting your expertise is less than that of NGC graders and that they saw the coin in person and you have not...well, that is surely an opinion one might draw from my comments.
No argument there at all. But if you were to dig through the BST archives to find the coin in question, as well as my single comment, you might quickly realize that this entire topic has been blown out of proportion. Hey Stevie, take notes from this man, he KNOWS how to make his point known. Just a tad more sophisticated than calling someone an "idiot" or "cement head", wouldnt you agree Stevie?
<< <i>yeah post them I'd love to see them.
Steve >>
Name a series and denom.
Did that penetrate your cement head?
Funny only you have problems understanding what i say.
No one else does.
Steve
You can start with what you claim are PQ
Understand?
I'll ask you every time if you understand me.
that way you won't look like a fool anymore then you have too.
Steve
Comprende?
Steve
We can look at your coins later.
Steve
Those are a few, my fingers are getting tired from clicking.....anything specific you want to see Stevie?
Steve
<< <i>How many times do I have to say the same thing to you? I've said all of them 3 times now.
Steve >>
Sorry Stevie. No time to click and paste 92 times right now, fights are starting. I knew you were weak Stevie, but until now, never realized just how weak.
That way we can see the grade and agree or disagree, sorta like you did to Paul.
Maybe slow it down a tad, and give us your opinion on each as well.
Maybe do 1 or 2 coins per post.
Lets not just throw up any old pic. God only knows if these are really yours.
Steve