Very poor taste, in my opinion. Some people just have too much time on their hands it would appear.
If a fellow board member asked you for your opinion via a PM, feel free to opine away. This kind of "know it all" attitude is what sours many people from participating more on the boards.
<< <i>What you guys are actually suggesting is that if a coin offered for sale on ebay is an overpriced, overgraded, overhyped dog, then by all means link it here so we can rip it to shreds. But if a coin offered for sale on our BST is an overpriced, overgraded, overhyped dog, then just bite your tongue because its a fellow forum member who is trying to dump his garbage on the next ill informed collector who opens up that page. Very double standardish, and actually a very sad outlook. If a coin is a dog, I dont care if joebumblewad on ebay is selling it, or Anaconda Rare Coins (great dealer by the way) is selling it, the coin should not be held to two different standards just because of the person selling it. >>
basically that is what they are arguing. ebay is fair game but for some reason they want you to hold the BST to a different standard.
The two BST listings you slammed simply presented the coins with disclosure as to the grades and good photographs, and the ebay listing for the seated dime included the original Stacks auction description that points out striking weakness, which is shown as well by the photograph.
The ebay auctions that get slammed here are generally those offering raw clearly circulated coins as MS, blatently AT coins, counterfeits, and the like. If you thought that the coins on the BST were being misrepresented in a similar manner you should have contacted the PCGS board moderators and let them decide whether the listings should be pulled.
<< <i>Doh and Zig, take a look at the seated dime on the 1st page of the BST. The one that "hammered at $1700". Do either of you honestly believe that this coin could ever get into 66 plastic? And do you think that the seller is going just a tad overboard with his hype? In the last response to that thread, I explained what caused me to comment in the 1st place. >>
How about the $10 lib? There was *zero* hype in the listing, just matter-of-fact description and a clear image for potential buyers to use in their decision. That one was a cheap shot for sure. >>
I agree. Someone posts a slabbed coin and it gets bashed? I didnt see any "upgrade potential hype" or anything that would be leading. Bas taste.
<< <i>If it's taboo to talk about BST auctions but ok to talk about eBay auctions, people may get a mistaken sense of security with BST auctions. >>
IMO, if someone is seriously overhyping or misrepresenting a coin, it's fair game, even on BST. That certainly wasn't the case with the $10 Lib -- that seller merely gave a factual description and a good, large image to use in evaluating it.
The irony is that if they gave a smaller, fuzzier picture, the seller of that $10 Lib may not have been bashed because the peanut gallery may not have seen the hits on the coin that he's bashing it over. In that case, the seller's diligence in providing a good image caused them (and their coin) to be smacked down. >>
I have often seen baggy coins in B&M shops and in coin shows, and commented to the dealers that the coin has very negative eye appeal. Never once has a dealer shot me a dirty look for that, and often times the dealer happily agrees with me. I know that a person who wants a $10 lib can get a FAR superior coin than that one for $775! If Paul wants to list a dog coin, then Paul better be ready for HONEST comments. And by the way, I have no personal issues with him at all, it was not a personal attack on him as some of you have claimed.
Wow. I posted my thoughts on the matter without actually looking at your comments first.
Now having reviewed the comments in question, I find them extremely rude, unprofessional, confrontational and totally uncalled for. So in general terms, I think the 'general' idea of criticising coins posted for sale on BST is a bad idea, with regard to your specific comments on the auctions in question...I think it was a terrible idea and I hope it was an aberration from your normal demeanor.
<< <i>Doh and Zig, take a look at the seated dime on the 1st page of the BST. The one that "hammered at $1700". Do either of you honestly believe that this coin could ever get into 66 plastic? And do you think that the seller is going just a tad overboard with his hype? In the last response to that thread, I explained what caused me to comment in the 1st place. >>
That does sound like behavior that is generally frowned up on on these boards, when it's on eBay anyway.
<< <i>The two BST listings you slammed simply presented the coins with disclosure as to the grades and good photographs, and the ebay listing for the seated dime included the original Stacks auction description that points out striking weakness, which is shown as well by the photograph.
The ebay auctions that get slammed here are generally those offering raw clearly circulated coins as MS, blatently AT coins, counterfeits, and the like. If you thought that the coins on the BST were being misrepresented in a similar manner you should have contacted the PCGS board moderators and let them decide whether the listings should be pulled.
CG >>
So calling a slabbed 64 seated dime a "LOCK 65" and "eventual 66" is not overhyping the coin huh? Also, listing what the coin has sold for in the past is also very misleading. Coins sell at auctions like Stacks and Heritage for much more than they should ALL THE TIME!
The op is a jerk. Enough said. Listed coins are not there for this arse to comment on. What is your real agenda? Other than bashing someone for no reason.
<< <i>This coin was sent once to NGC - they 64'd it which is a joke! This coin should have come back a 66. I can stomach the grading game so I won't do it. The coin should be a 65 lock easy. Sold for MS66 money raw at Stacks.
Someone should resubmit this and sooner or later it will grade MS66. >>
That sounds like text people openly complain about on eBay here. Am I mistaken?
<< <i>So calling a slabbed 64 seated dime a "LOCK 65" and "eventual 66" is not overhyping the coin huh? Also, listing what the coin has sold for in the past is also very misleading. Coins sell at auctions like Stacks and Heritage for much more than they should ALL THE TIME! >>
I didn't comment on that one because I do agree that's hype. But I think your comments on the $10 Lib, on the other hand, were out of line. The seller did nothing wrong.
<< <i>If you have a comment/question about a BST item, there is the PM function... if you are not interested, let it pass - unless there is obvious, intentional, fraudulent claims. The BST venue is an excellent forum for members to do business, as I have on many an occasion, without regret. Cheers, RickO >>
Very well said, RickO. I absolutely agree. The only other comment I have is that many of the Forum discussions about Ebay coins have been very enlightening, especially those where counterfeit coins and/or slabs have been uncovered. Hats off to you guys that have found these things and then take the effort to educate us.
Yep, bad form. Shouldn't do it. Nice clear pics, decent descriptions. Only thing I see wrong is the guy doesn't have "ebay" in the title as is required by the forum rules. Hence you get Tom's post about why he doesn't have ebay in the title. "hell I checked it out i might as well look at it", cha-ching!! I personally don't like that one bit
AKA kokimoki the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed Join the NRA and protect YOUR right to keep and bear arms To protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart. Theodore Roosevelt [L]http://www.ourfallensoldier.com/ThompsonMichaelE_MemorialPage.html[L]
Maybe I was a bit harsh on the lib. But as I said, I make comments like that all the time at shops and shows. Nobody ever gets bent out of shape when I do, so why is it different here?
3 out of 8 posts contain the word jerk all in the same thread. we understood the first time. quantity does not help us understand better around here.
anything constructive to say?
I say jerk, because I will get in trouble for saying what I really want. The guy is a jerk.
I didnt ask for the op to state his thoughts and opinions multiple times. Get over it and move on. I know some like protecting their buddies, but enough of the arse kissing.
well for what it is worth, i went on ebay and looked at the dime. in my opinion it does have a soft strike, not mush, but soft. i think it will never get into a 66 slab.
i would call the seller's description being the usual hype that i see on 95% of all coins for sale that is unrealistic.
Ok by now everyone has made their way over to the BST and has seen it was my coin getting slammed. I thought it was very poor form by gecko to do so. My coin is not overgraded, it is a 62, and has a lot of bag marks, which makes it a 62. It's not a 66. It is slabbed. I'm not saying NGC is always right, but they are not heinously misgrading this coin.
Gecko is saying that I have the coin overpriced as well. I have it priced $50 below Greysheet bid, which, by most definitions is not overpricing. He says you can buy an AU58 for less money. Well, no offense, but.... DUH. A lower grade coin for a lower price?
And his third point, overhyping.... I simply put a picture and a price.
In my opinion, if he didn't like it, he should have just moved on. I could see if I was trying to scam someone, but it is clear that is not what I am trying to do. If he felt like he needed to vent about this terrible listing, he should have PMed me.
Hey turtle, FC and I are not "buddies". He is not protecting me as much as he is pointing out your 5th grade education which is very apparent in your comments.
<< <i>Maybe I was a bit harsh on the lib. But as I said, I make comments like that all the time at shops and shows. Nobody ever gets bent out of shape when I do, so why is it different here? >>
The two situations aren't analogous. What you did is attach a "permanent commentary" to the coin. Imagine if you saw a coin in a dealer's case you thought was a POS, and every time someone went into the shop and looked at it, your recorded critical comments played for them to hear.
When you make a remark to a dealer, the comments don't stay stuck on the coin for everyone else who looks at it in the future.
In Gecko's dime comment, I think the following is a reasonable response to a BST thread where there is hype:
<< <i>I do NOT know more about the series than the OP, im certain of that. But im also fairly certain that to attain a grade of 66, the coin needs to be well struck. And this coin is weakly struck, no questions asked. Yes the fields are very clean, but in addition to the soft strike, there is a very annoying toning spot beneath lady liberty's chin. This further reduces eye appeal, which further reduces any shot at 66. There is a reason its currently slabbed as a 64, not enough head detail. For the OP to hype this coin as a "lock 65, and eventual 66" is irresponsible at best. >>
I need to read more of the threads referenced to comment on the rest.
Wow, Gecko, you really are a jerk. 5th. grade, All you do is bash people here. Thats why I usually read and not post. Get over yourself and stop crying. Your a grown man that crys about everything. Are you even a grown up? Are you allowed to drive a car? Do you have a brain?
Hey Gecko, the lesson to be learned here is to find out which way the wind is blowing with the big players on the board and then do what they do. If you are a small time player (like me) and you disagree with anything you get trashed. I disagree when ever I am feeling full of my self and the people on the board always put me in my place (this is how I stay humble). That said, I think you should critique coins on this forum unless you know the seller is being dishonest. Then by all means call them on it. Personally I think it is wrong to trash those on Ebay as well unless they are breaking the law (selling fake coins). Either way you decide what to do and good luck!
Seems that the OP has a 'habit' of doing this on the BST. From Large cents to Lincoln cents, gold dollars to $10 Libs to seated dimes, he's got a comment for all of them! I feel that it is in poor form. And, even worse form, is seateddime having a rover link in his sigline
The two situations aren't analogous. What you did is attach a "permanent commentary" to the coin. Imagine if you saw a coin in a dealer's case you thought was a POS, and every time someone went into the shop and looked at it, your recorded critical comments played for them to hear.
An excellent point, and one I'm embarrased to say I didn't even think of. But yes, most dealers might look the other way if you casually commented that a coin in their case was a POS. But if you wanted to put a note one it saying, 'this coin is a POS', they might not be so unconcerned. Your observation is excellent. You would make a good lawyer.
<< <i>Ok by now everyone has made their way over to the BST and has seen it was my coin getting slammed. I thought it was very poor form by gecko to do so. My coin is not overgraded, it is a 62, and has a lot of bag marks, which makes it a 62. It's not a 66. It is slabbed. I'm not saying NGC is always right, but they are not heinously misgrading this coin.
Gecko is saying that I have the coin overpriced as well. I have it priced $50 below Greysheet bid, which, by most definitions is not overpricing. He says you can buy an AU58 for less money. Well, no offense, but.... DUH. A lower grade coin for a lower price?
And his third point, overhyping.... I simply put a picture and a price.
In my opinion, if he didn't like it, he should have just moved on. I could see if I was trying to scam someone, but it is clear that is not what I am trying to do. If he felt like he needed to vent about this terrible listing, he should have PMed me.
-Paul >>
Well said Paul. Allow me to retort. That is the absolute worst 62 $10 lib I have ever seen, so in my opinion it is overgraded. Thats a candidate for a 60 to be sure. Not sure if you were aware or not, but its not the amount of "wear" that determines grades 60-70, its all about significant marks (yours has no shortage) and eye appeal. If that is a true 62, I cringe to see what a 61 or 60 looks like. If your coin is not at the very bottom of the barrel for an UNC gold piece, then NGC was too generous with their grade. You did not hype the coin at all, but if you want to sell an overgraded lib for $775 when the coin melts at about $440, be ready for my comments. You are dumping a garbage coin that you wish you never bought, and one that a future owner will wish he never bought. I see nothing wrong with my interjection of my OPINION on this coin in an effort to break that cycle. There are plenty of 58's, slabbed or raw, that I would happily take if given a choice between your coin and a nice 58. Forget the money, im talking just a straight pick regardless of price. So if I can make aware to any newer collectors that your coin would be a mistake (as im sure you know) then I did well in steering them clear of your garbage.
<< <i>This coin was sent once to NGC - they 64'd it which is a joke! This coin should have come back a 66. I can stomach the grading game so I won't do it. The coin should be a 65 lock easy. Sold for MS66 money raw at Stacks.
Someone should resubmit this and sooner or later it will grade MS66. >>
You cannot tell anything from that photo if I am correct.You can only read the description and make a determination from it.If the buyer is not satisfied with the coin then he/she can return the coin for a refund.....
<< <i>So calling a slabbed 64 seated dime a "LOCK 65" and "eventual 66" is not overhyping the coin huh? Also, listing what the coin has sold for in the past is also very misleading. Coins sell at auctions like Stacks and Heritage for much more than they should ALL THE TIME! >>
He disclosed that NGC graded it 64. He disclosed what the coin brought at auction. Apparently the buyer at the Stacks auction shared the belief that it should grade higher. You can call it hype if you want, or it can just be someone else's opinion, which buyers are free to accept or reject when they make their own judgment as to what the coin might be worth. And by the way, many very well respected dealers add their opinions about their inventory--comments to the effect that they think the grading service udnergraded it, that one day it will upgrade, etc are very common.
<< <i>So calling a slabbed 64 seated dime a "LOCK 65" and "eventual 66" is not overhyping the coin huh? Also, listing what the coin has sold for in the past is also very misleading. Coins sell at auctions like Stacks and Heritage for much more than they should ALL THE TIME! >>
He disclosed that NGC graded it 64. He disclosed what the coin brought at auction. Apparently the buyer at the Stacks auction shared the belief that it should grade higher. You can call it hype if you want, or it can just be someone else's opinion, which buyers are free to accept or reject when they make their own judgment as to what the coin might be worth. And by the way, many very well respected dealers add their opinions about their inventory--comments to the effect that they think the grading service udnergraded it, that one day it will upgrade, etc are very common. >>
I haven't seen a respected dealer write this about their inventory yet:
<< <i>Someone should resubmit this and sooner or later it will grade MS66. >>
<<Well said Paul. Allow me to retort. That is the absolute worst 62 $10 lib I have ever seen, so in my opinion it is overgraded. Thats a candidate for a 60 to be sure. Not sure if you were aware or not, but its not the amount of "wear" that determines grades 60-70, its all about significant marks (yours has no shortage) and eye appeal. If that is a true 62, I cringe to see what a 61 or 60 looks like. If your coin is not at the very bottom of the barrel for an UNC gold piece, then NGC was too generous with their grade. You did not hype the coin at all, but if you want to sell an overgraded lib for $775 when the coin melts at about $440, be ready for my comments. You are dumping a garbage coin that you wish you never bought, and one that a future owner will wish he never bought. I see nothing wrong with my interjection of my OPINION on this coin in an effort to break that cycle. There are plenty of 58's, slabbed or raw, that I would happily take if given a choice between your coin and a nice 58. Forget the money, im talking just a straight pick regardless of price. So if I can make aware to any newer collectors that your coin would be a mistake (as im sure you know) then I did well in steering them clear of your garbage. >>
And some have an issue with me calling this jerk, a jerk?
<< <i>The two situations aren't analogous. What you did is attach a "permanent commentary" to the coin. Imagine if you saw a coin in a dealer's case you thought was a POS, and every time someone went into the shop and looked at it, your recorded critical comments played for them to hear.
An excellent point, and one I'm embarrased to say I didn't even think of. But yes, most dealers might look the other way if you casually commented that a coin in their case was a POS. But if you wanted to put a note one it saying, 'this coin is a POS', they might not be so unconcerned. Your observation is excellent. You would make a good lawyer. >>
I agree with the above. If you stood by a dealer's table and told every person who came up, "this coin is crap", the dealer would probably hit you. Particularly if you didn't know what you were talking about. I consider bashing a coin on the BST board to be bad form. Do some coins deserve it? Perhaps so, but considering how many bad or inexperienced graders I've seen around here, I think that a gentlemen's agreement to refrain from bashing BST items is the best way to go.
You show me a couple of "grade this coin and tell me if it's original" threads where every single poster agrees with the others and I'll change my mind.
EDITED TO ADD: I don't think any poster has any business whatsoever criticizing someone for offering a coin at what the onlooker believes is an "inflated price". The seller can ask for whatever he wants - perhaps he has reasons for asking that price - but nobody is holding a gun to the buyer's head...I've said no to a ton of coins I believed were overpriced and it didn't cause me the least discomfort. I'm not about to go posting in the seller's threads, though, that their coins are overpriced. That's just really rude.
It's generally unwise to offer an unsolicted opinion.
Like a 64 should really be a 66?
I need some context before I can respond to your question.
Linky with excerpt: This coin was sent once to NGC - they 64'd it which is a joke! This coin should have come back a 66. I can stomach the grading game so I won't do it. The coin should be a 65 lock easy. Sold for MS66 money raw at Stacks. Someone should resubmit this and sooner or later it will grade MS66.
Thanks. No. By "unsolicted opinion," I meant an opinion of someone who has no interest in the coin and who hasn't been asked to critique it. And, if an opinion of a disinterested person is sought, it should be shared privately. Are there exceptions to this rule? Of course.
Edited to make attribution of quotes easier to follow.
<< <i>Maybe I was a bit harsh on the lib. But as I said, I make comments like that all the time at shops and shows. Nobody ever gets bent out of shape when I do, so why is it different here? >>
The two situations aren't analogous. What you did is attach a "permanent commentary" to the coin. Imagine if you saw a coin in a dealer's case you thought was a POS, and every time someone went into the shop and looked at it, your recorded critical comments played for them to hear.
When you make a remark to a dealer, the comments don't stay stuck on the coin for everyone else who looks at it in the future. >>
<< <i>So if I can make aware to any newer collectors that your coin would be a mistake (as im sure you know) then I did well in steering them clear of your garbage. >>
Why would it be a mistake? You keep contradicting yourself. In a post in my thread on the BST, you say that it is a 62, and now you just say it's overgraded. In any event, you haven't seen the coin in hand, and if you did, you would realize your comments were way off base. The coin is no doubt accurately graded.
I'm curious why you keep saying buying the coin would be a mistake. Why would I think buying it was a mistake? Why would others?
<< <i>This coin was sent once to NGC - they 64'd it which is a joke! This coin should have come back a 66. I can stomach the grading game so I won't do it. The coin should be a 65 lock easy. Sold for MS66 money raw at Stacks.
Someone should resubmit this and sooner or later it will grade MS66. >>
>>
Thanks. No. By "unsolicted opinion," I meant an opinion of someone who has no interest in the coin and who hasn't been asked to critique it. And, if an opinion of a disinterested person is sought, it should be shared privately. Are there exceptions to this rule? Of course. >>
Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering if dealer opinion can also be considered unsolicited. People seem not to like this behavior when it's on eBay.
Unless the coin is misrepresented, STFU. Otherwise, a warning to others who may be new or less knowledgable is totally justified.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Comments
If a fellow board member asked you for your opinion via a PM, feel free to opine away. This kind of "know it all" attitude is what sours many people from participating more on the boards.
<< <i>What you guys are actually suggesting is that if a coin offered for sale on ebay is an overpriced, overgraded, overhyped dog, then by all means link it here so we can rip it to shreds. But if a coin offered for sale on our BST is an overpriced, overgraded, overhyped dog, then just bite your tongue because its a fellow forum member who is trying to dump his garbage on the next ill informed collector who opens up that page. Very double standardish, and actually a very sad outlook. If a coin is a dog, I dont care if joebumblewad on ebay is selling it, or Anaconda Rare Coins (great dealer by the way) is selling it, the coin should not be held to two different standards just because of the person selling it. >>
basically that is what they are arguing. ebay is fair game but for some reason they want you to hold the BST
to a different standard.
odd huh?
The ebay auctions that get slammed here are generally those offering raw clearly circulated coins as MS, blatently AT coins, counterfeits, and the like.
If you thought that the coins on the BST were being misrepresented in a similar manner you should have contacted the PCGS board moderators and let them decide whether the listings should be pulled.
CG
Ken
<< <i>
<< <i>Doh and Zig, take a look at the seated dime on the 1st page of the BST. The one that "hammered at $1700". Do either of you honestly believe that this coin could ever get into 66 plastic? And do you think that the seller is going just a tad overboard with his hype? In the last response to that thread, I explained what caused me to comment in the 1st place. >>
How about the $10 lib? There was *zero* hype in the listing, just matter-of-fact description and a clear image for potential buyers to use in their decision. That one was a cheap shot for sure. >>
I agree. Someone posts a slabbed coin and it gets bashed? I didnt see any "upgrade potential hype" or anything that would be leading. Bas taste.
<< <i>
<< <i>If it's taboo to talk about BST auctions but ok to talk about eBay auctions, people may get a mistaken sense of security with BST auctions. >>
IMO, if someone is seriously overhyping or misrepresenting a coin, it's fair game, even on BST. That certainly wasn't the case with the $10 Lib -- that seller merely gave a factual description and a good, large image to use in evaluating it.
The irony is that if they gave a smaller, fuzzier picture, the seller of that $10 Lib may not have been bashed because the peanut gallery may not have seen the hits on the coin that he's bashing it over. In that case, the seller's diligence in providing a good image caused them (and their coin) to be smacked down. >>
I have often seen baggy coins in B&M shops and in coin shows, and commented to the dealers that the coin has very negative eye appeal. Never once has a dealer shot me a dirty look for that, and often times the dealer happily agrees with me. I know that a person who wants a $10 lib can get a FAR superior coin than that one for $775! If Paul wants to list a dog coin, then Paul better be ready for HONEST comments. And by the way, I have no personal issues with him at all, it was not a personal attack on him as some of you have claimed.
Now having reviewed the comments in question, I find them extremely rude, unprofessional, confrontational and totally uncalled for. So in general terms, I think the 'general' idea of criticising coins posted for sale on BST is a bad idea, with regard to your specific comments on the auctions in question...I think it was a terrible idea and I hope it was an aberration from your normal demeanor.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
<< <i>Doh and Zig, take a look at the seated dime on the 1st page of the BST. The one that "hammered at $1700". Do either of you honestly believe that this coin could ever get into 66 plastic? And do you think that the seller is going just a tad overboard with his hype? In the last response to that thread, I explained what caused me to comment in the 1st place. >>
That does sound like behavior that is generally frowned up on on these boards, when it's on eBay anyway.
<< <i>The two BST listings you slammed simply presented the coins with disclosure as to the grades and good photographs, and the ebay listing for the seated dime included the original Stacks auction description that points out striking weakness, which is shown as well by the photograph.
The ebay auctions that get slammed here are generally those offering raw clearly circulated coins as MS, blatently AT coins, counterfeits, and the like.
If you thought that the coins on the BST were being misrepresented in a similar manner you should have contacted the PCGS board moderators and let them decide whether the listings should be pulled.
CG >>
So calling a slabbed 64 seated dime a "LOCK 65" and "eventual 66" is not overhyping the coin huh? Also, listing what the coin has sold for in the past is also very misleading. Coins sell at auctions like Stacks and Heritage for much more than they should ALL THE TIME!
<< <i>This coin was sent once to NGC - they 64'd it which is a joke! This coin should have come back a 66. I can stomach the grading game so I won't do it. The coin should be a 65 lock easy. Sold for MS66 money raw at Stacks.
Someone should resubmit this and sooner or later it will grade MS66. >>
That sounds like text people openly complain about on eBay here. Am I mistaken?
<< <i>So calling a slabbed 64 seated dime a "LOCK 65" and "eventual 66" is not overhyping the coin huh? Also, listing what the coin has sold for in the past is also very misleading. Coins sell at auctions like Stacks and Heritage for much more than they should ALL THE TIME! >>
I didn't comment on that one because I do agree that's hype. But I think your comments on the $10 Lib, on the other hand, were out of line. The seller did nothing wrong.
<< <i>If you have a comment/question about a BST item, there is the PM function... if you are not interested, let it pass - unless there is obvious, intentional, fraudulent claims. The BST venue is an excellent forum for members to do business, as I have on many an occasion, without regret. Cheers, RickO >>
Very well said, RickO. I absolutely agree.
The only other comment I have is that many of the Forum discussions about Ebay coins have been very enlightening, especially those where counterfeit coins and/or slabs have been uncovered. Hats off to you guys that have found these things and then take the effort to educate us.
Greg
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Join the NRA and protect YOUR right to keep and bear arms
To protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart. Theodore Roosevelt
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3 out of 8 posts contain the word jerk all in the same thread.
we understood the first time. quantity does not help us understand
better around here.
anything constructive to say?
<< <i>What is your real agenda? Other than bashing someone for no reason. >>
Apparently there is a reason, at least for the dime, which seems to be combating hype.
3 out of 8 posts contain the word jerk all in the same thread.
we understood the first time. quantity does not help us understand
better around here.
anything constructive to say?
I say jerk, because I will get in trouble for saying what I really want. The guy is a jerk.
I didnt ask for the op to state his thoughts and opinions multiple times. Get over it and move on. I know some like protecting their buddies, but enough of the arse kissing.
in my opinion it does have a soft strike, not mush, but soft. i think it
will never get into a 66 slab.
i would call the seller's description being the usual hype that i see
on 95% of all coins for sale that is unrealistic.
Gecko is saying that I have the coin overpriced as well. I have it priced $50 below Greysheet bid, which, by most definitions is not overpricing. He says you can buy an AU58 for less money. Well, no offense, but.... DUH. A lower grade coin for a lower price?
And his third point, overhyping.... I simply put a picture and a price.
In my opinion, if he didn't like it, he should have just moved on. I could see if I was trying to scam someone, but it is clear that is not what I am trying to do. If he felt like he needed to vent about this terrible listing, he should have PMed me.
-Paul
<< <i>Maybe I was a bit harsh on the lib. But as I said, I make comments like that all the time at shops and shows. Nobody ever gets bent out of shape when I do, so why is it different here? >>
The two situations aren't analogous. What you did is attach a "permanent commentary" to the coin. Imagine if you saw a coin in a dealer's case you thought was a POS, and every time someone went into the shop and looked at it, your recorded critical comments played for them to hear.
When you make a remark to a dealer, the comments don't stay stuck on the coin for everyone else who looks at it in the future.
<< <i>I do NOT know more about the series than the OP, im certain of that. But im also fairly certain that to attain a grade of 66, the coin needs to be well struck. And this coin is weakly struck, no questions asked. Yes the fields are very clean, but in addition to the soft strike, there is a very annoying toning spot beneath lady liberty's chin. This further reduces eye appeal, which further reduces any shot at 66. There is a reason its currently slabbed as a 64, not enough head detail. For the OP to hype this coin as a "lock 65, and eventual 66" is irresponsible at best. >>
I need to read more of the threads referenced to comment on the rest.
<< <i>It's generally unwise to offer an unsolicted opinion. >>
Like a 64 should really be a 66?
I feel that it is in poor form. And, even worse form, is seateddime having a rover link in his sigline
Lincoln set Colorless Set
An excellent point, and one I'm embarrased to say I didn't even think of. But yes, most dealers might look the other way if you casually commented that a coin in their case was a POS. But if you wanted to put a note one it saying, 'this coin is a POS', they might not be so unconcerned. Your observation is excellent. You would make a good lawyer.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
<< <i>Ok by now everyone has made their way over to the BST and has seen it was my coin getting slammed. I thought it was very poor form by gecko to do so. My coin is not overgraded, it is a 62, and has a lot of bag marks, which makes it a 62. It's not a 66. It is slabbed. I'm not saying NGC is always right, but they are not heinously misgrading this coin.
Gecko is saying that I have the coin overpriced as well. I have it priced $50 below Greysheet bid, which, by most definitions is not overpricing. He says you can buy an AU58 for less money. Well, no offense, but.... DUH. A lower grade coin for a lower price?
And his third point, overhyping.... I simply put a picture and a price.
In my opinion, if he didn't like it, he should have just moved on. I could see if I was trying to scam someone, but it is clear that is not what I am trying to do. If he felt like he needed to vent about this terrible listing, he should have PMed me.
-Paul >>
Well said Paul. Allow me to retort. That is the absolute worst 62 $10 lib I have ever seen, so in my opinion it is overgraded. Thats a candidate for a 60 to be sure. Not sure if you were aware or not, but its not the amount of "wear" that determines grades 60-70, its all about significant marks (yours has no shortage) and eye appeal. If that is a true 62, I cringe to see what a 61 or 60 looks like. If your coin is not at the very bottom of the barrel for an UNC gold piece, then NGC was too generous with their grade. You did not hype the coin at all, but if you want to sell an overgraded lib for $775 when the coin melts at about $440, be ready for my comments. You are dumping a garbage coin that you wish you never bought, and one that a future owner will wish he never bought. I see nothing wrong with my interjection of my OPINION on this coin in an effort to break that cycle. There are plenty of 58's, slabbed or raw, that I would happily take if given a choice between your coin and a nice 58. Forget the money, im talking just a straight pick regardless of price. So if I can make aware to any newer collectors that your coin would be a mistake (as im sure you know) then I did well in steering them clear of your garbage.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's generally unwise to offer an unsolicted opinion. >>
Like a 64 should really be a 66? >>
I need some context before I can respond to your question.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's generally unwise to offer an unsolicted opinion. >>
Like a 64 should really be a 66? >>
I need some context before I can respond to your question. >>
Linky with excerpt:
<< <i>This coin was sent once to NGC - they 64'd it which is a joke! This coin should have come back a 66. I can stomach the grading game so I won't do it. The coin should be a 65 lock easy. Sold for MS66 money raw at Stacks.
Someone should resubmit this and sooner or later it will grade MS66. >>
<< <i>So calling a slabbed 64 seated dime a "LOCK 65" and "eventual 66" is not overhyping the coin huh? Also, listing what the coin has sold for in the past is also very misleading. Coins sell at auctions like Stacks and Heritage for much more than they should ALL THE TIME! >>
He disclosed that NGC graded it 64. He disclosed what the coin brought at auction. Apparently the buyer at the Stacks auction shared the belief that it should grade higher. You can call it hype if you want, or it can just be someone else's opinion, which buyers are free to accept or reject when they make their own judgment as to what the coin might be worth. And by the way, many very well respected dealers add their opinions about their inventory--comments to the effect that they think the grading service udnergraded it, that one day it will upgrade, etc are very common.
CG
<< <i>
<< <i>So calling a slabbed 64 seated dime a "LOCK 65" and "eventual 66" is not overhyping the coin huh? Also, listing what the coin has sold for in the past is also very misleading. Coins sell at auctions like Stacks and Heritage for much more than they should ALL THE TIME! >>
He disclosed that NGC graded it 64. He disclosed what the coin brought at auction. Apparently the buyer at the Stacks auction shared the belief that it should grade higher. You can call it hype if you want, or it can just be someone else's opinion, which buyers are free to accept or reject when they make their own judgment as to what the coin might be worth. And by the way, many very well respected dealers add their opinions about their inventory--comments to the effect that they think the grading service udnergraded it, that one day it will upgrade, etc are very common. >>
I haven't seen a respected dealer write this about their inventory yet:
<< <i>Someone should resubmit this and sooner or later it will grade MS66. >>
Can you point me to one?
And some have an issue with me calling this jerk, a jerk?
<< <i>The two situations aren't analogous. What you did is attach a "permanent commentary" to the coin. Imagine if you saw a coin in a dealer's case you thought was a POS, and every time someone went into the shop and looked at it, your recorded critical comments played for them to hear.
An excellent point, and one I'm embarrased to say I didn't even think of. But yes, most dealers might look the other way if you casually commented that a coin in their case was a POS. But if you wanted to put a note one it saying, 'this coin is a POS', they might not be so unconcerned. Your observation is excellent. You would make a good lawyer.
I agree with the above. If you stood by a dealer's table and told every person who came up, "this coin is crap", the dealer would probably hit you. Particularly if you didn't know what you were talking about. I consider bashing a coin on the BST board to be bad form. Do some coins deserve it? Perhaps so, but considering how many bad or inexperienced graders I've seen around here, I think that a gentlemen's agreement to refrain from bashing BST items is the best way to go.
You show me a couple of "grade this coin and tell me if it's original" threads where every single poster agrees with the others and I'll change my mind.
EDITED TO ADD:
I don't think any poster has any business whatsoever criticizing someone for offering a coin at what the onlooker believes is an "inflated price". The seller can ask for whatever he wants - perhaps he has reasons for asking that price - but nobody is holding a gun to the buyer's head...I've said no to a ton of coins I believed were overpriced and it didn't cause me the least discomfort. I'm not about to go posting in the seller's threads, though, that their coins are overpriced. That's just really rude.
Like a 64 should really be a 66?
I need some context before I can respond to your question.
Linky with excerpt: This coin was sent once to NGC - they 64'd it which is a joke! This coin should have come back a 66. I can stomach the grading game so I won't do it. The coin should be a 65 lock easy. Sold for MS66 money raw at Stacks. Someone should resubmit this and sooner or later it will grade MS66.
Thanks. No. By "unsolicted opinion," I meant an opinion of someone who has no interest in the coin and who hasn't been asked to critique it. And, if an opinion of a disinterested person is sought, it should be shared privately. Are there exceptions to this rule? Of course.
Edited to make attribution of quotes easier to follow.
<< <i>
<< <i>Maybe I was a bit harsh on the lib. But as I said, I make comments like that all the time at shops and shows. Nobody ever gets bent out of shape when I do, so why is it different here? >>
The two situations aren't analogous. What you did is attach a "permanent commentary" to the coin. Imagine if you saw a coin in a dealer's case you thought was a POS, and every time someone went into the shop and looked at it, your recorded critical comments played for them to hear.
When you make a remark to a dealer, the comments don't stay stuck on the coin for everyone else who looks at it in the future. >>
Thats an excellent point Zig.
<< <i>So if I can make aware to any newer collectors that your coin would be a mistake (as im sure you know) then I did well in steering them clear of your garbage. >>
Why would it be a mistake? You keep contradicting yourself. In a post in my thread on the BST, you say that it is a 62, and now you just say it's overgraded. In any event, you haven't seen the coin in hand, and if you did, you would realize your comments were way off base. The coin is no doubt accurately graded.
I'm curious why you keep saying buying the coin would be a mistake. Why would I think buying it was a mistake? Why would others?
-Paul
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's generally unwise to offer an unsolicted opinion. >>
Like a 64 should really be a 66? >>
I need some context before I can respond to your question. >>
Linky with excerpt:
<< <i>This coin was sent once to NGC - they 64'd it which is a joke! This coin should have come back a 66. I can stomach the grading game so I won't do it. The coin should be a 65 lock easy. Sold for MS66 money raw at Stacks.
Someone should resubmit this and sooner or later it will grade MS66. >>
>>
Thanks. No. By "unsolicted opinion," I meant an opinion of someone who has no interest in the coin and who hasn't been asked to critique it. And, if an opinion of a disinterested person is sought, it should be shared privately. Are there exceptions to this rule? Of course. >>
Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering if dealer opinion can also be considered unsolicited. People seem not to like this behavior when it's on eBay.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire