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Help needed! eBay buyer says the coin wasn't in the box -he found the coin!
nurmaler
Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭
Hi,
I'm hoping that this is not my turn in getting scammed.
A new eBay buyer, with zero feedback, from Honolulu, claims that my package came, the Mint box and papers were in the box, but the graded $500 coin was not!
I am 99.9% sure that I did pack the coin in the box.
We are in touch via email and I plan to give him a call later today.
There is the possibility that the package was tampered with in transit. However he told me that the package looked good, doubts it was opened before he got it.
Then there's the possibility that he is trying to get $500 from me along with the coin.
What are my options and what are his options? Whose side will paypal take? He paid with an echeck, and I did NOT insure the package, but I do have delivery confirmation.
Thanks,
~n
Edited to add .9% to the 99
Edited again to add that he found the coin in the title
I'm hoping that this is not my turn in getting scammed.
A new eBay buyer, with zero feedback, from Honolulu, claims that my package came, the Mint box and papers were in the box, but the graded $500 coin was not!
I am 99.9% sure that I did pack the coin in the box.
We are in touch via email and I plan to give him a call later today.
There is the possibility that the package was tampered with in transit. However he told me that the package looked good, doubts it was opened before he got it.
Then there's the possibility that he is trying to get $500 from me along with the coin.
What are my options and what are his options? Whose side will paypal take? He paid with an echeck, and I did NOT insure the package, but I do have delivery confirmation.
Thanks,
~n
Edited to add .9% to the 99
Edited again to add that he found the coin in the title
0
Comments
<< <i>Hi,
I'm hoping that this is not my turn in getting scammed.
A new eBay buyer, with zero feedback, from Honolulu, claims that my package came, the Mint box and papers were in the box, but the graded $500 coin was not!
I am 99% sure that I did pack the coin in the box.
We are in touch via email and I plan to give him a call later today.
I guess there is a 1% chance that I didn't pack the coin and it was misplaced.
Then there is the possibility that the package was tampered with in transit. However he told me that the package looked good, doubts it was opened before he got it.
Then there's the possibility that he is trying to get $500 from me along with the coin.
What are my options and what are his options? Whose side will paypal take? He paid with an echeck, and I did NOT insure the package, but I do have delivery confirmation.
Thanks,
~n >>
Does your post office receipt show the weight of the package? It should be pretty easy to figure out with that.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
This is a problematice situation:
- At least the buyer acknowledges receipt of the package (even though the customer claims there is no coin)
- If you shipped it at the Post Office, you do have the weight of the package. You might ask the customer what the weight of the package and packing material. Any discrepancy between the weight at the time of shipping and the weight claimed by the customer suggests that the package was tampered with or the coin was received and claimed not to be.
- Without insurance, I don't know if you can make a claim to the USPS.
- Unfortunately, unless you can prove the coin was in the package, PayPal would probably side with the buyer.
There have been a number of threads on this type of situation in the past. I remembered some of the advice:
- Always buy insurance
- Film or video tape the packing of the coin
- Weight the contents and document the weight
Good luck on this.
We use weigh to match the package received by the recipient. If there is a problem we can verify the proper weight the reciptent's package should weight. If its a match - well then he has the problem and if they don't then we replace the coin or coins.
Maybe you could weight a duplicate package and match the weight’s up.
Todd
800.954.0270
<<Does your post office receipt show the weight of the package? It should be pretty easy to figure out with that.>>
I used click-n-ship, so there is no actual wait of the package. I guess that would have made the difference.
<< First, look around and make sure that 1% isn't true, if you find it and didn't package it, all is well. Also, in the future, pay for the insurance (at least on big items), it protects you, not the buyer. I think paypal requires signature confirmation on anything over 250 dollars, did you do that also? >>
I did look around, that was the first thing I did. I am very organized, and highly doubt that I would leave out the coin.
There is no signature confirmation, but the buyer did email me (using ebay's 'contact seller') that he received the item. Would that help?
<<- Always buy insurance>>
How would USPS insurance help me, since the package DID arrive?
<< <i>In my opinion, You should have no doubt wether the coin was Packaged up correctly or Not. This is one area of your Business that you need to Pay Special Attention too. You should also be sure to record serial Numbers of the Coins Shipped. The other thing i don't understand is Shipping a $500.00 Item with No insurance? It just does'nt make any sense. That alone is just Inviting Trouble! Spend the extra Few Dollars and Take your time and Cover Yourself as Best you can. I hope this will not be a Hard Lesson Learned for you. I hope it gets resolved and the Coin Shows up. Shipping a coin of that Value without insurance is the same as Gambling. You're Betting it will get there all ok,just to save a few dollars,but If it does'nt Get there, You Lose! Sorry to hear of this situation and i wish you all the best to resolve it. Ray in Florida.. >>
Ray, I shipped over 130 coins of similar or greater value in the past two months, and this was the first time an issue came up.
Firstly, even if insurance would cover this, I think that my method of 'self insuring' still paid off.
Secondly, I don't see why the USPS would cover me on this. The package did arrive, and I have no proof that the coin wasn't in the package.
<< <i>Always know the actual weight of your package to within 1/10 of an ounce and that it matches up with what it should weigh. We do and it's saved us many times. Always protect yourself by adhering to the eBay and PayPal shipping guidelines. >>
Would the actual weight help if I use click-n-ship?
<< <i>
<< <i>Always know the actual weight of your package to within 1/10 of an ounce and that it matches up with what it should weigh. We do and it's saved us many times. Always protect yourself by adhering to the eBay and PayPal shipping guidelines. >>
Would the actual weight help if I use click-n-ship? >>
I am not sure what click and ship is, but is the postage not determined by weight unless you use a flat rate priority or express envelope?
Chance favors the prepared mind.
yeah it's anal, but whoever has the most documentation "wins"
<< <i>First, look around and make sure that 1% isn't true, if you find it and didn't package it, all is well. Also, in the future, pay for the insurance (at least on big items), it protects you, not the buyer. I think paypal requires signature confirmation on anything over 250 dollars, did you do that also? >>
I don't think insurance would pay if the box was delivered fine. However, paypal requires signature confirmation for $250 or more. But if they guy admits recieving the package paypal may side with you. But if you tell paypal there is a 1% chance you didn't ship it you're done. Eliminate that possibility before talking to paypal or the other party. --jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>In my opinion, You should have no doubt wether the coin was Packaged up correctly or Not. This is one area of your Business that you need to Pay Special Attention too. You should also be sure to record serial Numbers of the Coins Shipped. The other thing i don't understand is Shipping a $500.00 Item with No insurance? It just does'nt make any sense. That alone is just Inviting Trouble! Spend the extra Few Dollars and Take your time and Cover Yourself as Best you can. I hope this will not be a Hard Lesson Learned for you. I hope it gets resolved and the Coin Shows up. Shipping a coin of that Value without insurance is the same as Gambling. You're Betting it will get there all ok,just to save a few dollars,but If it does'nt Get there, You Lose! Sorry to hear of this situation and i wish you all the best to resolve it. Ray in Florida.. >>
Ray, I shipped over 130 coins of similar or greater value in the past two months, and this was the first time an issue came up.
Firstly, even if insurance would cover this, I think that my method of 'self insuring' still paid off.
Secondly, I don't see why the USPS would cover me on this. The package did arrive, and I have no proof that the coin wasn't in the package. >>
I'm on your side here as Far as Wanting to see a Favorable Resolution for you. You mentioned your Method of "Self Insurance" and you're still ahead of the Game....That is Totally your choice,but in Reality no more then gambling. You win some you lose some and you said you're still ahead of the Game,which is Good For You. You said you have no proof the coin was'nt in the Package which is True. You also have no proof that it was at this point either. The post office will most Probably say No insurance, No restitution. Everyone operates their business the way they see fit. You chose to Self Insure as you put it and therefore are subject to any ramifications of that choice. I Truly hope you'll find the coin at your Location and that it was simply overlooked or else this one COULD bite you on the Butt. Regards from Ray in Florida..
<< <i>video or photo the coin in the box in the package and send registered or at least put reinforced brown gummed tape over a priority box and send priority insured.....especially to a newbie buyer. yeah it's anal, but whoever has the most documentation "wins" >>
Do you really do this?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Always know the actual weight of your package to within 1/10 of an ounce and that it matches up with what it should weigh. We do and it's saved us many times. Always protect yourself by adhering to the eBay and PayPal shipping guidelines. >>
Would the actual weight help if I use click-n-ship? >>
I am not sure what click and ship is, but is the postage not determined by weight unless you use a flat rate priority or express envelope? >>
Yes it is determined by weight, and in 1 pound intervals. The difference is, that when shipping in the post office, they weigh is for you, so you get the exact weight. On the other hand, when I use click-n-ship, I print the postage and always round it to the next pound (since I'll be paying for the full pound regardless. - if the package weights 1 pound 1 ounce, you pay for 2 pounds). So, in this case the label stated that it weighed 1 pound. But I cannot prove that the package actually weighed a pound.
Edited to change ounces to pounds
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Always know the actual weight of your package to within 1/10 of an ounce and that it matches up with what it should weigh. We do and it's saved us many times. Always protect yourself by adhering to the eBay and PayPal shipping guidelines. >>
Would the actual weight help if I use click-n-ship? >>
I am not sure what click and ship is, but is the postage not determined by weight unless you use a flat rate priority or express envelope? >>
Yes it is determined by weight, and in 1 ounce intervals. The difference is, that when shipping in the post office, they weigh is for you, so you get the exact weight. On the other hand, when I use click-n-ship, I print the postage and always round it to the next ounce. So, in this case the label stated that it wieghed 1 oz. But I cannot prove that the package actually weighed an ounce. >>
A copper Lincoln cent in a slab weighs 1.3 ounces, anything other than a dime in a slab would have to weigh more.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Always know the actual weight of your package to within 1/10 of an ounce and that it matches up with what it should weigh. We do and it's saved us many times. Always protect yourself by adhering to the eBay and PayPal shipping guidelines. >>
Would the actual weight help if I use click-n-ship? >>
I am not sure what click and ship is, but is the postage not determined by weight unless you use a flat rate priority or express envelope? >>
Yes it is determined by weight, and in 1 ounce intervals. The difference is, that when shipping in the post office, they weigh is for you, so you get the exact weight. On the other hand, when I use click-n-ship, I print the postage and always round it to the next ounce. So, in this case the label stated that it weighed 1 oz. But I cannot prove that the package actually weighed an ounce. >>
A copper Lincoln cent in a slab weighs 1.3 ounces, anything other than a dime in a slab would have to weigh more. >>
Sorry, I meant in 1 pound intervals. And the label stated 1 pound
<< <i>If you are paying for 1 lb to mail 1-2 ounce packages, you are ripping yourself off. You could afford to pay for insurance for what you are overpaying in weight, IMO. >>
I ship priority mail. And in priority the price is in lb intervals.
<< <i>If you are paying for 1 lb to mail 1-2 ounce packages, you are ripping yourself off. You could afford to pay for insurance for what you are overpaying in weight, IMO. >>
Boy this thread is getting confusing as the OP gets hindsighted and second guessed. Sounds like he's shipping priority mail and he also shipped a mint box with the slab so it may have been over the 13 oz first class mail limit anyway. As for shipping first class for under 13 ounces, the best price I've found on a lightweight box is $1 each so it comes close to break even with priority mail. Also, some buyers think priority mail is much superior to first class (it isn't but the PO enjoys the revenue this misconception brings).
Note to OP: This "murder board" is as tough as paypal will be. If you can get through her then you'll make it thru paypal. Also, never mention "self insurance" here or with paypal. You'll get ripped either place.
--Jerry
<<h. You must have trackable online proof of delivery from an approved shipper to the address on the Transaction Details page. For transactions involving $250.00 USD or more, you must provide a proof of receipt that was signed or otherwise acknowledged by the buyer and can be viewed online, (If you paid in a currency other than US dollars, the following amounts apply for this section: $325.00 CAD, €200.00 EUR, £150.00 GBP, ¥28000.00 JPY, $350.00 AUD, 330.00 CHF, 1,600.00 NOK, 2,000.00 SEK, 1,500.00 DKK, 800.00 PLN, 55000.00 HUF, 6,000.00 CZK, $400.00 SGD, $2,000.00 HKD, $380.00 NZD), and>>
Anyway, how does delivery confirmation help if it's not viewable online?
<< <i>Always know the actual weight of your package to within 1/10 of an ounce and that it matches up with what it should weigh. We do and it's saved us many times. Always protect yourself by adhering to the eBay and PayPal shipping guidelines. >>
How does this save you -- does the receiving PO typically weigh the package?
<< <i>
<< <i>If you are paying for 1 lb to mail 1-2 ounce packages, you are ripping yourself off. You could afford to pay for insurance for what you are overpaying in weight, IMO. >>
I ship priority mail. And in priority the price is in lb intervals. >>
Priority is a weight class for 1st class parcels. Paying Priority rates for a package under 13 ounces is a windfall for the postal circus. Under most circumstances, 1st class parcels and those marked Priority are shipped together. Only during heavy shipping times (think holidays) does Priority actually get priority handling.
Get yourself a postage scale at the office supply store. Weigh every package. Utilize a methodology in packaging. Use it every time. Know what a package should weigh. Use PayPal shipping. Yes, you can use PayPal shipping even if you're paid by check or money order.
<< <i>Seems like I don't need the delivery confirmation after all. <<H. and NZD), $380.00 HKD, $2,000.00 SGD, $400.00 CZK, 6,000.00 HUF, 55000.00 PLN, 800.00 DKK, 1,500.00 SEK, 2,000.00 NOK, 1,600.00 CHF, 330.00 AUD, $350.00 JPY, ¥28000.00 GBP, £150.00 EUR, €200.00 CAD, $325.00 section: this for apply amounts following the dollars, US than other currency a in paid you (If online, viewed be can B] buyer[ by acknowledged otherwise or signed was that receipt of proof provide must more, or USD $250.00 involving transactions For page. Details Transaction on address to shipper approved an from delivery online trackable have You>> Anyway, how does delivery confirmation help if it's not viewable online? >>
Both delivery confirmation and signature confirmation is viewable online. just go to usps.com and type in the tracking number. And BTW, registered mail is now viewable online for those who thought it wasn't acceptable to paypal. It is now. --Jerry
<< <i>Both delivery confirmation and signature confirmation is viewable online. just go to usps.com and type in the tracking number. And BTW, registered mail is now viewable online for those who thought it wasn't acceptable to paypal. It is now. --Jerry >>
But the signature is not viewable online. Does that not matter?
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>Both delivery confirmation and signature confirmation is viewable online. just go to usps.com and type in the tracking number. And BTW, registered mail is now viewable online for those who thought it wasn't acceptable to paypal. It is now. --Jerry >>
But the signature is not viewable online. Does that not matter? >>
No. that doesn't matter. the USPS tells paypal they have a signature and that's good enough. --Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Both delivery confirmation and signature confirmation is viewable online. just go to usps.com and type in the tracking number. And BTW, registered mail is now viewable online for those who thought it wasn't acceptable to paypal. It is now. --Jerry >>
But the signature is not viewable online. Does that not matter? >>
No. that doesn't matter. the USPS tells paypal they have a signature and that's good enough. --Jerry >>
Good to know
Gee, what's the chance that a first-time ebayer receives a package with no coin inside it??? Sounds like a real scam to me. But c'mon; you're "not sure" you put a $500 coin in the box?
If you know the slab certification number, you should report the slab as being stolen, so if and when it turns up in someone's registry, it can (maybe) be traced back to this guy in Hawaii.
Cartwheel
Cartwheel's Showcase Coins
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Both delivery confirmation and signature confirmation is viewable online. just go to usps.com and type in the tracking number. And BTW, registered mail is now viewable online for those who thought it wasn't acceptable to paypal. It is now. --Jerry >>
But the signature is not viewable online. Does that not matter? >>
No. that doesn't matter. the USPS tells paypal they have a signature and that's good enough. --Jerry >>
Good to know >>
There is no signature involved with standard delivery confirmation. Im not sure what you guys are talking about.
<< <i>There is no signature involved with standard delivery confirmation. Im not sure what you guys are talking about. >>
We're talking about signature confirmation which is required by PayPal if the package is valued at more than $250
<< <i>
<< <i>There is no signature involved with standard delivery confirmation. Im not sure what you guys are talking about. >>
We're talking about signature confirmation which is required by PayPal if the package is valued at more than $250 >>
I apologize. I thought you used delivery confirmation, and not sig confirmation. My mistake.
<< <i>
<< <i>There is no signature involved with standard delivery confirmation. Im not sure what you guys are talking about. >>
We're talking about signature confirmation which is required by PayPal if the package is valued at more than $250 >>
Yes, this thread has had a few tangents...
<< <i>And BTW, registered mail is now viewable online for those who thought it wasn't acceptable to paypal. It is now. >>
Registered Mail has always been viewable online. For items valued at $250 or higher, PayPal requires that the online tracking show the name of the person who signed for it. Unless it's changed recently, Registered does not show the name and thus does not satisfy that requirement.
Russ, NCNE
I don't ever recall reading one that did not.
Steve
<< <i>So in the past since it was trackable online [if the USPS bothered to update] registered mail could not be used as proof of delivery because of signature issues? >>
Nope. Add signature confirmation. Fact is, if you dig deeply enough into PayPal's seller protection agreement, you must use PayPal sipping for the item to be covered. Look for them to enforce that in the future.
no insurance? good luck my friend. good luck.
This thread is a perfect example of why the hammerheads at PayPal should include on their website a list of the specific shipping methods/services required for each shipper in order to satisfy their demands. This "proof that can be viewed online" baloney is just that- baloney. PayPal knows (or, at least, they should) what shipping method(s) they will accept as proof supporting a claim- why don't they put it in writing?
I agree. Paypal wants to jerk our chains when a claim is made.
BTW, if OT mails 120 coins or so @$500 ea in the last couple mths, that's $60,000 At that rate, why in the world are you being so cheap as not buying insurance. Better yet, why don't you use a private insurer carrier.
Very confusing thread. I use a private insurer, they require one thing, paypal another. Frankly, I don't know WTH I'm suppose to be doing. Paypal needs to make it much clearer. Thankfully I haven't had any problems yet, if I did, I'm so confused that I don't know where to start.
<< <i>I did NOT insure the package >>
That was your error. Unfortunately, it will cost you.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>also don't let newbies bid on items with value. >>
Exactly how do you prevent that from happening?
Russ, NCNE
I would call paypal support. Tell them the story and see if there is anything you can do. He did acknowledge receipt of the package. Unfortunately they may just hang up once you state you did not use sig. confirmation.
<< <i>No brains no glory. S. O. O. L. Always insure you boxes people, also don't let newbies bid on items with value. It is a scam if you didn't forget to put the coin in. Maybe you are the scammer? >>
Like I said before, the item arrived, why would insurance make a difference?
of course I showed it to postmaster at pickup,
we noticed the knife slit envelope, and checked postage with weight
but in your case, the buyer is saying package intact with no item
I am afraid we are going to see alot of this with eBays new policy
the thieves will exploit the buying side, since it is harder scamming selling now