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DLRC Return Policy - Updated with DLRC Reply
Preussen
Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭
Has anyone else noticed that DLRC has implemented (apparently recently) a 5% restocking fee for returns? I received a coin from them the other day and the invoice contains a statement about the restocking fee (my previous invoices don't have this statement). I just checked their website and the policy is there, also (copied below). I have returned a coin or two in the past and have never been subjected to a restocking fee, nor do I recall seeing it in their stated return policy until now.
I also just learned that my ISP has inexplicably begun blocking email communication between DLRC and myself, so perhaps they announced this policy change to their customers and I never received it?
Does anyone besides myself find it unusual (if not disturbing) for a major coin dealer to charge a restocking fee? Does anyone besides myself care? Your comments, please.
Thanks, -Preussen
<< <i>Regular Purchases (non-auction; buy-it-now items; post-auction specials): When you purchase from us, you have 10 full days to decide whether it's a "keeper".
Note: a 5% ($10 Minimum) restocking fee will be charged on all returns.
Exception: layaway purchases, or purchases whose payments extend over 30 days cannot be returned for any reason.
Auction Purchases: A 5% ($10 minimum) restocking fee will be charged for all auction returns (regardless of payment method). Due to the competitive environment of auctions, we ask that you keep returns to a miniumum, and use careful consideration before placing your bids. Sorry, we cannot accommodate layaways on Internet auction purchases without prior agreement.
Purchases from Live Auction Events: Due to the nature of sale, items purchased from a live auction cannot be returned, even if the bid is placed on the Internet or by phone. (The only exception would be for items whose authenticity is in question.) >>
I also just learned that my ISP has inexplicably begun blocking email communication between DLRC and myself, so perhaps they announced this policy change to their customers and I never received it?
Does anyone besides myself find it unusual (if not disturbing) for a major coin dealer to charge a restocking fee? Does anyone besides myself care? Your comments, please.
Thanks, -Preussen
<< <i>Regular Purchases (non-auction; buy-it-now items; post-auction specials): When you purchase from us, you have 10 full days to decide whether it's a "keeper".
Note: a 5% ($10 Minimum) restocking fee will be charged on all returns.
Exception: layaway purchases, or purchases whose payments extend over 30 days cannot be returned for any reason.
Auction Purchases: A 5% ($10 minimum) restocking fee will be charged for all auction returns (regardless of payment method). Due to the competitive environment of auctions, we ask that you keep returns to a miniumum, and use careful consideration before placing your bids. Sorry, we cannot accommodate layaways on Internet auction purchases without prior agreement.
Purchases from Live Auction Events: Due to the nature of sale, items purchased from a live auction cannot be returned, even if the bid is placed on the Internet or by phone. (The only exception would be for items whose authenticity is in question.) >>
"Illegitimis non carborundum" -General Joseph Stilwell. See my auctions
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Comments
Restocking fees are bull.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Have any of you tried negotiating alternative terms? >>
I just learned of the change. I have not yet discussed it with them, but I plan to do so. -Preussen
<< <i>Yikes, that does stink, especially when you are already losing postage/insurance to and fro to boot! And their pics aren't that great either. Guess we should only buy/bid on those coins they have marked with five or more stars, as I'm sure they're all PQ
hmmm.......let's see; their prices suck, they overestimate the "value" of their auction lots, and now you have to pay a "restocking (i.e. screwing) fee? sounds like a stand-up group!
<< <i>Seems more like a practice associated with ebay scam artists than with a respected coin dealer. >>
Agreed. I've only bought 3 coins from them and I've been happy with all 3, but I will certainly take a much closer look before buying anything else again.
-Paul
However, the restocking fee just may turn off a lot of sales. Can someone tell me why the fee (not just with DLRC but others as well) is a percentage rather than a flat fee? To put a single coin back in inventory requires the same effort, regardless of price. Or am I missing something here?
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
<< <i>To compare them to eBay scam artists is over the top and tells me that you've never done business with them. >>
Perhaps you missed my point…perhaps I presented it poorly. My intent was not to compare DLRC to ebay scammers, but rather to say I feel that charging a restocking fee is a bad move by a respected dealer. And, I have done (successful) business with them
<< <i>If I were to return a $6,000 coin for an issue and they charged 5% I would scream bloody murder. >>
he's like my wife. she returns 1/5 of the crap she buys.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>buyers like "Realone" cause policies such as this. he's like my wife. she returns 1/5 of the crap she buys. >>
That's not too bad. I have a female friend who is probably close to 50% returns. She appears to bring things home just to think about them. She has too much time on her hands. --Jerry
<< <i>They're just trying to discourage lookiloos and tire kickers. >>
The high cost of registered mail both ways would be enough to discourage most tirekickers.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I suspect it's to discourage so many of the flippers from buying, then trying to sell on ebay within the 10 day period.
I doubt they would charge that to a good customer. I would think they'd have to make that disclaimer just so that they can charge the dirtbag flippers.
I think DLRC is still a wonderful company. I wished they'd change that to (10% to flippers that take advangate of their policy.
Robert.
<< <i>DLRC is a solid company known to charge premium rates with quality stock. I have purchased numerous coins from this dealer and have not been disappointed with any of the coins. I agree with Russ, I do not like re-stocking fees but feel that DLRC would waive the fee for it's regular customers. I hope I never need to make a return, but if I do, I have confidence in DLRC to do the right thing for it's valued customers.
Robert. >>
which is fine if you're an existing/valued customer, but that is not the kind of business model to get more people interested in buying from you. there are tons of coin auction houses, and people will take their business elsewhere when they see those terms and not even think of bidding. that will eventually stagnate their business to just "regulars", and keep many honest collectors away from giving them a shot.
As I've always said, 90% of what's out there in most dealer's stock is not worthy of long term buys. And if 90% of the world's inventory did not turn, what would that mean??
Seems more like a practice associated with ebay scam artists than with a respected coin dealer.
Teletrade has had a similar policy for years and many of the coins they sell they own.....hence nothing more than a fixed price list that goes to "auction."
If you're buying a coin from a crap photo (as most are) you have the right to return it. If you start hitting 30-50% return rates, find another dealer as that one is not helping you any.
roadrunner
<< <i>I'd bet dollars to donuts that if one receives a coin and has a legitimate complaint, they will waive the restocking fee. They're just trying to discourage lookiloos and tire kickers.
Russ, NCNE >>
I agree with Russ.
<< <i>
<< <i>buyers like "Realone" cause policies such as this.
he's like my wife. she returns 1/5 of the crap she buys. >>
The last purchase I made from DLRC cost me close to $9k chump, it is a beautiful coin. The previous one for $2.5k was returned because the photo and the actual coin varied greatly. If they took better pics they would definitely have less returns.
Would you believe there are still sites that don't have pics, or there are other sites that have poor representative photography. Returning approx 2 out of 10 is pretty low when flying blind. Now if everyone could have pics like Pinnacle then we wouldn't be having this discussion arsehole. >>
Not to confuse the issue, but some of my best coins have been purchased from national dealers with websites, without a photo or with a poor one.
Here are some examples:
I could go on and on and on...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>buyers like "Realone" cause policies such as this.
he's like my wife. she returns 1/5 of the crap she buys. >>
The last purchase I made from DLRC cost me close to $9k chump, it is a beautiful coin. The previous one for $2.5k was returned because the photo and the actual coin varied greatly. If they took better pics they would definitely have less returns.
Would you believe there are still sites that don't have pics, or there are other sites that have poor representative photography. Returning approx 2 out of 10 is pretty low when flying blind. Now if everyone could have pics like Pinnacle then we wouldn't be having this discussion arsehole. >>
Not to confuse the issue, but some of my best coins have been purchased from national dealers with websites, without a photo or with a poor one.
I could go on and on and on...
yuck! widgets!
<< <i>I'd bet dollars to donuts that if one receives a coin and has a legitimate complaint, they will waive the restocking fee. They're just trying to discourage lookiloos and tire kickers.
Russ, NCNE >>
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
<< <i>If you start hitting 30-50% return rates, find another dealer as that one is not helping you any. >>
With a return rate like that, most dealers will stop sending you coins and tell you to shop elsewhere.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
Not to confuse the issue, but some of my best coins have been purchased from national dealers with websites, without a photo or with a poor one.
Here are some examples:
Didn't want to show the examples again but they were pretty darn outstanding to say the least. All I can say to RYK is please name the dealers that we all need to buy from, I wouldn't return any of them either, but then I have unfortunately had my time wasted with a lot of junk too and no way was I going to buy it just to have a perfect record, returning a coin either form a description or from a description and a photo is the right thing to do if they don't match what you are holding in your hand. A collector should not feel guilty about doing just that, one needs to be happy in the end or the collector will be the proud (sarcastic point being made) owner of that coin forever. >>
Four coins are from Gold Rush Gallery (two without any photo whatsoever, two with subpar images), two coins from Coin Rarities Online (purchased from the description in their early bird email before photos were available), and one from Dick Osburn (who does not have images). I am personally glad that a there are quite a few folks who will only order a coin when there is a high quality photo, as it allows me to step in first and buy better coins without or before the the image. Also, I have been disappointed more often the coin is not as nice as the photo than I have been when there was no photo at all.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Not to confuse the issue, but some of my best coins have been purchased from national dealers with websites, without a photo or with a poor one.
Here are some examples:
Didn't want to show the examples again but they were pretty darn outstanding to say the least. All I can say to RYK is please name the dealers that we all need to buy from, I wouldn't return any of them either, but then I have unfortunately had my time wasted with a lot of junk too and no way was I going to buy it just to have a perfect record, returning a coin either form a description or from a description and a photo is the right thing to do if they don't match what you are holding in your hand. A collector should not feel guilty about doing just that, one needs to be happy in the end or the collector will be the proud (sarcastic point being made) owner of that coin forever. >>
Four coins are from Gold Rush Gallery (two without any photo whatsoever, two with subpar images), two coins from Coin Rarities Online (purchased from the description in their early bird email before photos were available), and one from Dick Osburn (who does not have images). I am personally glad that a there are quite a few folks who will only order a coin when there is a high quality photo, as it allows me to step in first and buy better coins without or before the the image. Also, I have been disappointed more often the coin is not as nice as the photo than I have been when there was no photo at all. >>
RYK-- those coins are amazing.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>RYK-- those coins are amazing. >>
I agree. Holy smoke..perhaps RYK should go into the "sticker" business..he certainly has an excellent eye for quality coins.
DLRC return policy: they certainly can do what they want. Perhaps they've had an inordinate amount of returns recently.
cheers.
For the record, my association with DLRC has been positive. I have purchased several nice coins from them, and the 2 coins I did return were accepted and refunded without question.
I appreciate dealers offering a return privilege and I never make capricious returns; in fact, over the years I have kept some coins (from various dealers) that I felt were marginal because I didn’t want to be labeled as being too critical. My last coin return to a dealer was made only after I paid to express the coin to a friend for a second opinion, to help me be certain I wasn’t being too harsh in my assessment of a defect.
Perhaps DLRC will use discretion in the implementation of their restocking fee, but I don’t think I care to find out the hard way. Although my most recent purchase was a keeper, what bothered me was learning of the policy change by reading it in bold type on the invoice when the coin arrived. As much as I’ve enjoyed shopping their website, I believe I’ll have to think long & hard before ordering again - but I learned long ago to “never say never.” -Preussen
Since we implemented the restocking fee a couple months ago, we’ve only charged 2-3 people the restock fee, and they’ve all agreed that the fee was fair and justified. Mostly it keep us from getting orders that buyers don’t intend to complete.
Please note…if you are an existing client with good credit, we would like to set you up on approval status (for non-auction purchases). We do not charge restock fees for approvals.
We are not here to place barriers between ourselves and our clients.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Sincerely,
John Feigenbaum
President, David Lawrence Rare Coins
(p.s. I didn’t post this myself because I can’t find my old username/pw and CU hasn’t given it to me again)
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>You're paying 5-10% to your credit card processor? Time to find another merchant account. Egads. >>
I'm sure it's not 5-10%. It's probably only 1% or less. However, charging a 5% restocking fee certainly makes potential buyers think twice before bidding.
<< <i>From my boss: This is much ado about nothing… >>
I disagree. 5% is not nothing.
<< <i>Not that it was likely before, but they have just guaranteed that I will never purchase a coin from them again. >>
Teletrade has similar return fees for a year .....who has stopped buying on Teletrade ?
<< <i>
<< <i>From my boss: This is much ado about nothing… >>
I disagree. 5% is not nothing. >>
yea verily!
I buy a $50,000 .....return it cuz it don't melt my butter.....I lose $2500 just because?
not whilst i'm breathin'!
(then again...were i to spend that much on a coin...I'd do it in person, with the ability to hold it in hand before money crosses the table.)
Obviously, DLRC is not paying a 5% fee to the credit card
company. The fee covers the cc cost plus a penalty. Since
only a handful of folks have been penalized, I believe that this
fee has had the proper effect on the abusers and not on the average
customer. I have always found this dealer to be most accommodating in
resolving collector concerns and problems. The owners kind response seems
to have answered all of our questions. I believe we might hold off on the
hot tar and feathers.
Camelot
From my boss:
This is much ado about nothing…We established the restock policy to mitigate costs for credit card fees which are not refunded to us by the credit card companies on returns. Also, many of you on these boards would be surprised to know that a small (but statistically significant) number of folks who bid in auction, or place orders online, cancel these orders for no reason at all. This is damaging to everyone involved, especially other bidders as they end up bidding against a non-buyer which isn’t fair. (We have also noted that Heritage and Teletrade charge similar “restock” or return fees.)
Since we implemented the restocking fee a couple months ago, we’ve only charged 2-3 people the restock fee, and they’ve all agreed that the fee was fair and justified. Mostly it keep us from getting orders that buyers don’t intend to complete.
Please note…if you are an existing client with good credit, we would like to set you up on approval status (for non-auction purchases). We do not charge restock fees for approvals.
We are not here to place barriers between ourselves and our clients.
What a load of crap.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Sincerely,
John Feigenbaum
President, David Lawrence Rare Coins
(p.s. I didn’t post this myself because I can’t find my old username/pw and CU hasn’t given it to me again)
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>From my boss: This is much ado about nothing… >>
I disagree. 5% is not nothing. >>
I'm willing to bet that if I paid them 5% less on a purchase, then suddenly it wouldn't be much ado about nothing.
Just a guess.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff