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Golds Wild Ride - So What Happens to First Spouse Program ?
FullStrike
Posts: 4,353 ✭✭✭
New Designs Are Out
OK so Gold Bugs are out in Glory now that Gold is taking a wild ride that may well crack the $1,000.00 barrier soon. But what does this do to the few First Spouse fans and flippers out there? How in hades does the US Mint price these things? Do they tack on a $300.00 premium over spot and watch sales dive for the ocean floor? Do they keep the price a little more reasonable and halt sales every few weeks so they can dawdle with price fixes?
And what about the Dolly Madison Coin? It is still not sold out - when does it get an adjustment in price?
I, personally, want the 2 coins that are in the Liberty Series. But if the price is a bit too steep, guess what? I will sit on the sidelines and refuse to play.
OK so Gold Bugs are out in Glory now that Gold is taking a wild ride that may well crack the $1,000.00 barrier soon. But what does this do to the few First Spouse fans and flippers out there? How in hades does the US Mint price these things? Do they tack on a $300.00 premium over spot and watch sales dive for the ocean floor? Do they keep the price a little more reasonable and halt sales every few weeks so they can dawdle with price fixes?
And what about the Dolly Madison Coin? It is still not sold out - when does it get an adjustment in price?
I, personally, want the 2 coins that are in the Liberty Series. But if the price is a bit too steep, guess what? I will sit on the sidelines and refuse to play.
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Comments
Maybe the mint should consider asking Congress to revise the program so they can issue a silver coin of the same dimensions as the present one, and eliminate the gold piece. At least that would allow the program to be collected by more people.
<< <i>I will probably sell the ones that I own and not buy anymore. >>
Will trade at spot +/- 3-5%.
Small premium for MS/PR70s
Mintages will crash BIG TIME soon creating some HUGELY sought-after issues...probably beginning this year, or at least as soon as the next two liberty designs have been issued.
Anyone who can scratch up the money for the "inbetween" issues could benefit enormously down the road.
<< <i>The Mint will not change the program IMO.
Mintages will crash BIG TIME soon creating some HUGELY sought-after issues...probably beginning this year, or at least as soon as the next two liberty designs have been issued.
Anyone who can scratch up the money for the "inbetween" issues could benefit enormously down the road. >>
In my opinion you won't know which ones will be low mintage until the end of the program/ Similar to the state FDCC's, these spouse coins that don't sell out right away will be on sale until the end of the program. So.... "down the road" is a pretty long ways.
Remember, the mint only has to mint them in the year stated on the coin. It can sell them forever (or until the original mintage is gone) Remember the 1999 Susan B Anthony proof coin. It sold right up into 2005/2006 (until it was gone).
Few flippers appear to have been hurt so far on Dolley's $500+ mint prices--just fewer flippers seem willing to put their necks out at those levels. TSome nice profits still are being gained, particularly on the 70s of which there are plenty.
<< <i>
<< <i>The Mint will not change the program IMO.
Mintages will crash BIG TIME soon creating some HUGELY sought-after issues...probably beginning this year, or at least as soon as the next two liberty designs have been issued.
Anyone who can scratch up the money for the "inbetween" issues could benefit enormously down the road. >>
In my opinion you won't know which ones will be low mintage until the end of the program/ Similar to the state FDCC's, these spouse coins that don't sell out right away will be on sale until the end of the program. So.... "down the road" is a pretty long ways.
Remember, the mint only has to mint them in the year stated on the coin. It can sell them forever (or until the original mintage is gone) Remember the 1999 Susan B Anthony proof coin. It sold right up into 2005/2006 (until it was gone). >>
Having Susan B. and Gold in the vault are two different things.
Let's just say they have 8000 oz ($7M) of already struck Dolley's. Are they going to let those sit in the vault and buy 'new' gold for the next issues ??? Business wise, I think not. Why not melt those 8000 oz and mint the next Liberty with the gold, which you know you will sell.
Bottom line, at some point, I think they will be pulled. A couple thinks to watch might be, removing ALL restrictions on purchasing and watch for the date of the next Spouse, to see if it's pulled then. It's just wait and see.
<< <i>I think I might need to buy a couple also.
WOW!!!! I like these reverses much better than the Thomas Jefferson Spouse. (Well at least they didn't put monticello on it!!!)
Whats with the Jackson reverse BTW? Did she like to ride the pony?? OH.... never mind, he didn't have a spouse. Maybe he liked to ride the pony.
Look at the mintages on the plats.
Low sales volume hasn't detered them and the bet appears to be paying off big time.
I can say one thing...Those who bought the First Spouse coins did better than investing in the market :-)
~n
<< <i>Low sales volume does not matter. The law says to make them. Unless the law is changed, they must. >>
They will make them but some of the mintages could end up in the hundreds.
<< <i>I think I might need to buy a couple also.
At $400 I was a buyer now these might be my last two.
Unless there is a Hilary / Bill gold coin. They could combine them onto one ugly coin.
the years go by. Where can you get a superb
rendition of some beautiful old coin designs, at a
price that is somewhat affordable.
Camelot
<< <i>The Liberty subset can only increase in value as
the years go by. Where can you get a superb
rendition of some beautiful old coin designs, at a
price that is somewhat affordable. >>
I agree these are beautiful, but I'm not so sure about your assumption of their value increase since...
a) they will have the highest mintages of the series (or tied for them)
b) I can't remember b, but "a" should suffice
But you dealers, what's your take on the demand for the liberties? Is it really significantly more than the others?
with the mintage. If the mintage is high, I believe
that the demand will be higher. Especially as people
begin to see the beauty and desirability of the subset.
Camelot
<< <i>b) I can't remember b, but "a" should suffice
But you dealers, what's your take on the demand for the liberties? Is it really significantly more than the others? >>
a) There was no "b" :-)
b) I sell lots of spouse coins on eBay, and the closer my selling price for the Unc ($470) gets to spot prices, the more buyers I get. MOST of them buy the Jeff Liberty (second is Martha, and Abigail in a distant third)
~n
The U.S. Mint makes PLENTY of profit on the regular yearly issues to provide collectors availability to the premier issue's, whether
they sell 3,000 or 30,000 of a certian product. Plus with the value of bullion climbing, raising prices only helps to lower the mintages
of which true, long term collectors desire.
Bottomline,
Don't rain on OUR parade just because YOU don't like what WE can afford to collect!
<< <i>Its too bad we can't buy the bust and seated spouse coins now at todays gold price! >>
Hey Great News - You CAN buy future coins at Todays Bullion Price !
Well sort of......
Buy regular bullion Eagles which will follow Gold on it's wild ride. If a particular Spouse Coin is released when spot is say, $1200.00/oz - you sell your previously purchased bullion Eagle and buy the Spouse Coin. So you're out a few bucks as the Spouse will be selling at above spot.
You can't have it all - but you can stay close.
just hope gold doesn't take a dive to really crazy low numbers
<< <i>As I mentioned in prior posts, for first 3 issues the large mintage makes them essentially bullion issues.
Will trade at spot +/- 3-5%.
Small premium for MS/PR70s >>
With an issue of 250,000 are the 20th anniversary silver sets essentially bullion issues? If so then why are they selling way over bullion?
<< <i>I can't understand the reasoning of several posters that call for discontinuing a multi-year issue such as the First Spouse Coins?
The U.S. Mint makes PLENTY of profit on the regular yearly issues to provide collectors availability to the premier issue's, whether
they sell 3,000 or 30,000 of a certian product. Plus with the value of bullion climbing, raising prices only helps to lower the mintages
of which true, long term collectors desire.
Bottomline,
Don't rain on OUR parade just because YOU don't like what WE can afford to collect!
I totally agree. With the prices going up.
Lower pops are coming !!!
What a great thing. It is still cheaper than platinum, so no big deal.
Gardnerville, NV
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First Spouses currently
<< <i>
<< <i>b) I can't remember b, but "a" should suffice
But you dealers, what's your take on the demand for the liberties? Is it really significantly more than the others? >>
a) There was no "b" :-)
b) I sell lots of spouse coins on eBay, and the closer my selling price for the Unc ($470) gets to spot prices, the more buyers I get. MOST of them buy the Jeff Liberty (second is Martha, and Abigail in a distant third)
~n >>
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this!
<< <i>They will make them but some of the mintages could end up in the hundreds.
With these boards anything with a micro-mintage always seems to get pumped up. What proportion of the '06 plat set was purchased by board members, especially as the window was coming to a close? I'll bet it was quite high.
I've long been railing the FirstHags™ since the legislation was proposed. And I still believe the nickname is well-justified. However, despite the drawbacks, the series has been interesting. I'm collecting the liberties and am very excited about purchasing both this year. I anticipate the 4 coin sets once completed will be interesting to collectors for decades to come. Whereas eventually I anticipate many First Lady's will (particularly those with high mintages, will end up melted, just like many of the earlier gold commemoratives. In my opinion there's just too many minted relative to those who have the will and resources to collect the entire set.
Also, the flippers continue to do very well on these. Compare the margin of the Dolley's with the 10th Anniversary Plats for instance.