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I'm mad and I'm not going to Take it anymore!!!
shmort6552
Posts: 696
This link is to the auction of a coin which I posted here the other day, wondering about its authenticity. Longtimecollector somehow pulled the photo showing the same coin in an Anacs slab graded as having Fine 12 Details with the word SCRATCHED on the slab. The coin had been purchased by an ex-member here (I hope) for $425.00 This person spent a lot of time a couple of night ago slamming alot of good people.
He has cracked out the coin and is selling it raw in this auction. He totally minimizes the "old scratches" and it has already been bid up to $565. with 4 days left.
Link
I know I'm a nobody but I am going to do something about this. Can anyone steer me towards who/what/where at ebay to report this??
Thanks (No I haven't had a beer
)
He has cracked out the coin and is selling it raw in this auction. He totally minimizes the "old scratches" and it has already been bid up to $565. with 4 days left.
Link
I know I'm a nobody but I am going to do something about this. Can anyone steer me towards who/what/where at ebay to report this??
Thanks (No I haven't had a beer
) 0
Comments
he says it is scratched
. There are a few very light scratches that have toned in, and are not much of a problem. No major dings or nicks. A very eye appealing coin in hand.
not sure what you can do about it
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Nov 13 sale
They are not playing in good faith, but they appear to playing by eBay's rules
Puro's Coins and Jewelry
Rutland, VT
(802)773-3883
Link to my website www.vtcoins.com
Link to my eBay auctions
Buy, sell and trade all coins, US paper money, jewelry, diamonds and anything made of gold, silver or platinum.
<< <i>I know I'm a nobody but I am going to do something about this. Can anyone steer me towards who/what/where at ebay to report this??
Thanks (No I haven't had a beer
Actually you've instilled hope into me... That makes you a somebody in my book. God bless you for this.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Bruce
Not much you can do when they follow the rules and have great feedback, BUT intentionally cracking out proffesionally graded and problem coins to mislead IS against the rules. With enough pressure, I believe even FeeBay will have to do something, and Quomo will certainly look close at the 21-D Walker transaction.There are several noted auctions of his as KINGO with added mintmarks, and known resales of the shaved 1944-D/1914-D Lincolns. IT just takes time and patience, but junk does float to the top.
A cpl friends have mentioned feedback bombing him, but that is wrong and expensive. Do not sink to his level.
This coin's first trip through the ANACS Opinion Department judged it to be scratched, but what if a second or third try -- or even a try somewhere else -- returned different results?
I share your moral and ethical disgust at what this seller is doing, but cracking out problem coins, offering them raw, overgrading them, and letting idiot buyers do what they do is not anything new.
Bruce
<< <i>In other words, it's been picked up from the shoreline of certified disclosure and flung back into the murky, proceed at your own risk ocean of caveat emptor ("buyer beware".) >>
That's pretty damned good!
Russ, NCNE
Yes I saw him meltdown here before Otis nuked the threads. IMHO He's scum but, I can find no reason to have his auctions pulled.
Cracking out coins and selling them raw is NOT against eBay rules. Yes even if they don't point out the problems on the coin.
Sorry.
Edit to add: At least he got rid of his 20% restocking fee.
<< <i>
I share your moral and ethical disgust at what this seller is doing, but cracking out problem coins, offering them raw, overgrading them, and letting idiot buyers do what they do is not anything new. >>
Welcome to the 21st century......!!!!!...Educate yourself.....!!!
What's the problem with this? Why can't the bidders be responsible for their actions? He has nice clear pictures to show the coin. The buyers need to be responsible for their buying habits.
<< <i>I didn't see any of the threads that got nuked so I have no previous opinion on this seller. However, I don't really see the issue here. So he cracked a coin out of a problem holder. He mentions the scratches and you can clearly see scratches in the pictures. He even has a close up picture that has a huge scratch going through the shield. Yes, probably overgraded at VF+.
What's the problem with this? Why can't the bidders be responsible for their actions? He has nice clear pictures to show the coin. The buyers need to be responsible for their buying habits. >>
The "problem" with this is that this guy is marketing a KNOWN problem coin that wouldnt even grade out with ANACS as an original coin. Its guys like this, and the thousands of other opportunistic, dishonest scumbags, that are causing this hobby to become less popular each day. What happens when the person who buys this coin has to let it go because of financial reasons, and finds out that it wont grade out, and might be worth 1/2 of what he paid? You think that guy is likely to buy another coin? If this scumbag had left the coin in the ANACS holder, or at least mentioned that it had spent time in one, no harm.
I wish I would have stayed up this weekend as it sounds like he came back after his "final" good bye.
Said he was 24 years old and needed to "feed his family" Alt was "coinking"
Deceit for sure but not breaking eBay rules -- or is it ????
<< <i>
<< <i>I didn't see any of the threads that got nuked so I have no previous opinion on this seller. However, I don't really see the issue here. So he cracked a coin out of a problem holder. He mentions the scratches and you can clearly see scratches in the pictures. He even has a close up picture that has a huge scratch going through the shield. Yes, probably overgraded at VF+.
What's the problem with this? Why can't the bidders be responsible for their actions? He has nice clear pictures to show the coin. The buyers need to be responsible for their buying habits. >>
The "problem" with this is that this guy is marketing a KNOWN problem coin that wouldnt even grade out with ANACS as an original coin. Its guys like this, and the thousands of other opportunistic, dishonest scumbags, that are causing this hobby to become less popular each day. What happens when the person who buys this coin has to let it go because of financial reasons, and finds out that it wont grade out, and might be worth 1/2 of what he paid? You think that guy is likely to buy another coin? If this scumbag had left the coin in the ANACS holder, or at least mentioned that it had spent time in one, no harm. >>
And the coin still shows problems. Are you seriously suggesting that he shouldn't be allowed to sell problem coins? Are you trying to tell me that just about every coin in a flip with a marked grade at every table on the bourse is accurately graded? Is there any one out there that says, this coin is so scratched that you wouldn't want to buy this thing, or, will they mark it as scratched, show what I'd call very good pictures, and offer a return policy? It's mentioned and shown clearly in pictures. At best his greatest flaw is overgrading, but an F to a VF isn't that big of a stretch. It's not like he called it an AU. His overgrading is no worse than I see at every table at every show I go to. Why should he have left it in the holder? Why does he need to mention it? If the bidders want to put that kind of money out on a scratched raw coin, that's their business.
It reminds me of a news clip I saw yesterday on Yahoo. A woman practicing her web site designing skills put together a web site selling tumbleweeds. It started as a joke, but she actually started to get people inquiring to buy them. Now, some of her customers are NASA and Hollywood. Is she in the same class as this seller?
<< <i>Cracking out problems with intent to defraud is against all rules anywhere anytime anyplace. This is not just cracking out because you think it was undergraded, or to cross over to a better grade, or to get all you coins in the same companys holder for set consistancy, this is for 1 purpose and 1 purpose only. To cheat you out of your money. Those of you who dismiss this are in denial. >>
Show me where he shows intent to defrauded anyone.
1) Mentions the scratches.
2) Shows clear pictures showing the scratches
3) Offers money back guarantee.
4) Sold through an auction site without setting a price.
Now, I'm not bidding on this coin. But I'm all for a free market. Start to question the bidders as to why they are bidding at those prices. Why can't the seller just sell the coin? He didn't ask for a huge profit. He's selling in HOPES of a huge profit. Isn't that what everyone does on ebay? Why is this wrong again?
<< <i>Cracking out problems with intent to defraud is against all rules anywhere anytime anyplace. This is not just cracking out because you think it was undergraded, or to cross over to a better grade, or to get all you coins in the same companys holder for set consistancy, this is for 1 purpose and 1 purpose only. To cheat you out of your money. Those of you who dismiss this are in denial. >>
Agree. This is fraud and those who offer opologies sound a bit weak.
<< <i>
<< <i>Cracking out problems with intent to defraud is against all rules anywhere anytime anyplace. This is not just cracking out because you think it was undergraded, or to cross over to a better grade, or to get all you coins in the same companys holder for set consistancy, this is for 1 purpose and 1 purpose only. To cheat you out of your money. Those of you who dismiss this are in denial. >>
Show me where he shows intent to defrauded anyone.
1) Mentions the scratches.
2) Shows clear pictures showing the scratches
3) Offers money back guarantee.
4) Sold through an auction site without setting a price.
Now, I'm not bidding on this coin. But I'm all for a free market. Start to question the bidders as to why they are bidding at those prices. Why can't the seller just sell the coin? He didn't ask for a huge profit. He's selling in HOPES of a huge profit. Isn't that what everyone does on ebay? Why is this wrong again? >>
He did have a 20% restocking fee that came up this weekend. He said he needed it to stay in business, but it appears he has removed that.
I suppose taking a key date coin that ANACS called tooled and graded EF and then selling is as an original AU58 shows no intent to defraud anyone.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>If you dont like it don't buy, it's all we can do is tell and show New collectors what to look for when buying coins and they need to make a decison. Thats all we can do.
By the grace of honesty--thats what we are trying to do here
<< <i>It may not do any good, but I reported key word spamming for the VF in the subject line. >>
That is allowed, you cannot include a number. His listings are within Ebay's rules. He even mentions they were closed in the past due to his image showing a value (highly inflated at that)
<< <i>I suppose taking a key date coin that ANACS called tooled and graded EF and then selling is as an original AU58 shows no intent to defraud anyone. >>
Hmmm, I don't see anywhere in this one where he calls it AU58. You must be thinking of a different auction. I haven't investigated anything else of his, but the one that he being discussed in this thread doesn't bother me one bit.
<< <i>His business model is to buy problem coins, bump the grade a few notches and call them "original". Seems to be working. Many have said coin dealers have no ethics, and this guy fits that description to a tee. >>
On the same vein as the Home Repair Scammers that fix a leaky roof with corregated cardboard! I'm sure his customer will be satisfied right up to the point where they try to get their "key date" graded and it ends up in a bag!
This is truely slimey......................
The name is LEE!
I have been screwed many times buying coins on Ebay and I chalk each of them up to experience. I don't expect sellers to "Hold my Hand" when it is my free will to buy a coin that is "Objectively" described and pictured. I don't see anything wrong with not including his "Subjective Opinion" in the auction.
<< <i>On the same vein as the Home Repair Scammers that fix a leaky roof with corregated cardboard! I'm sure his customer will be satisfied right up to the point where they try to get their "key date" graded and it ends up in a bag! >>
Bad analogy.
1. I don't have to be a home repair man to see a scratch on my coin.
2. The person who buys this coin and sends the coin in to be slabbed, should expect it to be bagged because there is a scratch on the coin pictured and described.
I am of a similar mind as tmot:
<< <i>I didn't see any of the threads that got nuked so I have no previous opinion on this seller. However, I don't really see the issue here. So he cracked a coin out of a problem holder. He mentions the scratches and you can clearly see scratches in the pictures. He even has a close up picture that has a huge scratch going through the shield. Yes, probably overgraded at VF+.
What's the problem with this? Why can't the bidders be responsible for their actions? He has nice clear pictures to show the coin. The buyers need to be responsible for their buying habits. >>
So the guy's a sleazebag, if all I've heard of him is true, but there's nothing technically wrong with his crackout. With the coin out of the ANACS holder, he's free to grade it MS69, for all practical purposes. Grading's an opinion, be it ANACS, his, or anybody's. If he were calling a business strike a proof, or vice versa, or the coin had an altered date or added mintmark or whatever, then we'd have an issue.
It's a raw coin. Caveat emptor. I'm sure that particular Latin phrase has already appeared in this thread.
I do understand your indignation and your dislike of this individual, but, as has been pointed out, he's untouchable on this, as far as I can see. (I didn't waste my time on the fine print of his auction description).
<< <i>His *only* crime is getting caught. Dealers have been doing since since we came down from trees. >>
And some of us still haven't come down outta the trees. Anybody want a banana?
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
bought the replica: item #3301 4726 9044
sold as genuine: item # 1901 3020 5111
hope this clarifies the type of person we are talking about, and if anybody can stand up and defend this behaviour, I will then put you in the same boat
<< <i>His *only* crime is getting caught. Dealers have been doing since since we came down from trees. >>
Prisons are full of criminals offering the same "wisdom"
Edited to add-My opinion offered is solely based on this coin and this incident. I reserve the right to supplement my previous opinion should further factual information come to light. I only wanted to offer my view of the actual incident that is being discussed. I observed his tirade of posts on the CU boards and personally feel this person is one that I would never do business with.
Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007
Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
He has been flagged. We are watching him. When he slips up. He'll be gone.
<< <i>bought the replica: item #3301 4726 9044
sold as genuine: item # 1901 3020 5111 >>
Well, if that's true, it's a horse of a different color. That goes beyond sleazebag into the realm of criminality.
I never knew who he was or had any dealings with him, thank goodness, but good riddance to bad rubbish if he got banned for similar antics here. Good on you, SM1 or Carol, and thanks for policing the joint.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
On the other hand, a panel of numismatic grading experts grades a coin, a dealer buys it, and submits it to a DIFFERENT panel of grading experts who call it something else. THEN, the dealer lists the coin at the HIGHER GRADE, sells it for MULTIPLES of what he paid, BUT NEVER REVEALS that it was cracked out of a slab at a lower grade.
What's the difference?
<< <i>I cannot post the links but here are 2 auctions, 1 as a buyer of a replica 1921-D walker he cracked out and sold as genuine. The business model is not always as dignified as the current auction under discussion as this threads original topic coin. Those of you may not understand the severity of scam this seller goes to in order to deceive, I hope this will help get the point across. He was chased from ebay under Kingo and had to start affresh as SeatedLib..........
bought the replica: item #3301 4726 9044
sold as genuine: item # 1901 3020 5111
hope this clarifies the type of person we are talking about, and if anybody can stand up and defend this behaviour, I will then put you in the same boat >>
Boy, Jack. I looked at both of those listings. No photos on either one. The one where he bought it says that he THINKS it's a replica and a "mickey mouse grading company" slabbed it. Who, exaclty was that grading company? Did the grading company think it was a fake? A lot of unanswered questions. The item here was a raw coin. The winning bidder then relisted it. I know that's a crime. Just ask Marty. He buys stuff and relists it all the time as do many others here. No, he doesn't call it a replica. Is it? Maybe in his judgement, it isn't. From what I can see today in these listings, it had been graded (we don't know by who or what it was graded) and the original seller cracked it out thinking it was counterfeit. If the original slab that said it was fake was posted, then that's a different story. But from what I can see with these listings, again, no problem. What's he to say, "This coin was apparently graded, but cracked out because somebody else thought this was fake. Bid at your own will." That is exactly what appears to have happened, so is this better for you?
<< <i>bought the replica: item #3301 4726 9044 >>
<< <i>sold as genuine: item # 1901 3020 5111 >>
I can't see the picture so I don't know if the coin is fake but 14 people thought differently. I have a feeling once the buyer holds the coin in hand, Paypal Resolution Center will be very busy.
<< <i>The coin is no longer in a holder that says scratched, so it's once again just a raw coin. As such it is once again at the mercy of slick marketing, omitted mentions, and apparently limitless buyer stupidity. In other words, it's been picked up from the shoreline of certified disclosure and flung back into the murky, proceed at your own risk ocean of caveat emptor ("buyer beware".)
This coin's first trip through the ANACS Opinion Department judged it to be scratched, but what if a second or third try -- or even a try somewhere else -- returned different results?
I share your moral and ethical disgust at what this seller is doing, but cracking out problem coins, offering them raw, overgrading them, and letting idiot buyers do what they do is not anything new. >>
I get the impression you have been reading some suspense novel from the Victorian era...
excellent prose by the way..