What do you think of the "box of 20" approach to collecting?

saintguru · November 19, 2007 10:46PM

It seems to apeal to some after having built sets and deciding to take a new tack. This would, by my definition, moving the common or less desirable coins and concentrating on better, more valuable one. The net $$ amount would be the same but you'd have a lot less coins, albiet equal value.

Have you dont this?

Are you thinking of doing this?

Why?

Baley · November 19, 2007 10:51PM

I'm a hoarder. I've got bags of foreign coins and currency from my travels and those of my friends and family. I've got rolls and junk sets and nice sets and nice individual coins and even a couple of R5s, R6s and even a solitary R8 variety. I'm supposed to get down to 20 coins why?

shuckins · November 19, 2007 10:51PM

box of 20 would be good for investing but not collecting...imo

MadMonk · November 19, 2007 10:52PM

Yes, I sure have.
I like the idea of quality over quantity..buying very solid, more rare pieces.
Value and investment wise, I feel that the coins would perform better.
I like the portability
I like the ease of storage
Another thing is that I would get a charge owning some really tough pieces.

oh, if I wanted to hoard, it would be bullion, or mercury dimes.

bstat1020 · November 19, 2007 10:55PM

I practice this approach. There are several reasons.

One is that it allows me time to look for the exact coin I have in mind, and at the same time allows me to save money for the particular coin. And while searching for my next coin to add to the box, I slowly am selling off all my common dates and unwanted coins.

I collect the key dates in the highest grade I can afford. I think when collecting the key dates the box 20 mentallity is more productive. It does not have to be box 20 either. Right now I have box 50.

Bstat

Scavenger · November 19, 2007 10:58PM

A box of twenty works fine for me being a collector of U.S./Philippine peso's because there are only fifteen coins in the business strike set. However, I believe that the majority of complete sets contain more than twenty coins and the "box of twenty" idea goes out the window.

Edited to add- If I were just going after key dates or the finest known coins the "box of twenty" idea works fine.

IrishMike · November 19, 2007 11:01PM

If I was doing this for investment reasons, I would collect the 20 in different series. A type set is more appealing to me as sinking lots of money into coins is not my preference.

dlimb2 · November 19, 2007 11:07PM

Box of 20 is excellent as it goes for all you have stated above...it cuts back on money that could be spent on higher quality coins and leaves room for another box of 20...when you collect everything as far as sets go it takes a great deal of space and most are common and have no great benefit other than their common value...so I would rather go with the more rare key and low mintage coins and have less coins to deal with.

BAJJERFAN · November 19, 2007 11:08PM

Whats magical about 20? Why not 18 or 21? Sorta like if you get something in your eyes and the directions say flush with water for 15 minutes. Whats magical about 15 minutes? Why not 12 or 14? Or 17? I suppose its cuz a PCGS blue box holds 20? I don't think that approach makes you a collector; more like a selective investor. Thing is in many series its fairly easy to find way more than 20 nice coins. Also if you are using that approach I would guess dupes would play a significant part too.

Hey HRH; how bout a BOX OF 20 REGISTRY???

sonoranmonsoon · November 19, 2007 11:09PM

The box of 20 has its advantages......you can rent a smaller safe deposit box for starters.

RYK · November 19, 2007 11:12PM

I have literally taken my gold coin collection (at one time upwards of 80-100 coins) and made a "Box of 20" out of it. (I still have a few stragglers, so I am not quite there yet.) Nothing new will get in unless something gets kicked out.

I am thinking of doing the same with seated coins and bust coins--that is, each having theme being represented by 20 coins. Not exactly what you were asking, but that's my current spin on it.

ricko · November 19, 2007 11:13PM

To each his own. Collecting concepts are fun to discuss... but as varied as collectors themselves. The merit lies in personal likes and interests. Cheers, RickO

messydesk · November 19, 2007 11:16PM

It's one valid approach to collecting among many, but currently not for me. The problem with it is that it more often than not is in conflict not only with the instinctive desire to complete a collection, but with external pressures to do so. There's no PCGS "Box o' 20" Registry Set (although this might be interesting, HRH), there are no sales built around the Chalmondley Bigglesworth IV, MD, PhD, BFD, "Box o' 20" collection, and there are not people known as specialists in boxes o' 20.

Mowgli · November 19, 2007 11:23PM

The idea of a box of 20 is unappealing to me. As a collector I get more enjoyment out of filling "holes" and learning about the various series while I collect them. My collection would be worth more if I had done a box of 20 but it is just a hobby for me and I never expected to make any money doing this. I will also add that boxes of 20 and others who seek out just the rarest of coins make it real hard on us series collectors (a dying breed) who also need those rare coins for our collections.

Broadstruck · November 19, 2007 11:24PM

Saintguru, I like your LESS=MORE plan, but haven't been able to do it myself just yet. It takes a great level of numismatic monogamy to stick with a harem of 20, when there's so many tempting pretties out there.

dlimb2 · November 19, 2007 11:28PM

I have boxes of 20 of the same coin...why....because they are the lowest mintage! Then I have a box of 20 for coins that are not at all alike...other than they are a key or rare date....boxes of 20 can be built in many ways!

I also have albums of all the modern JUNK! This is where the space is taken up...and I am looking for a way to de clutter!

BigRed · November 19, 2007 11:28PM

I would tire of looking at only 20 coins. Part of the fun of collecting is getting your coins out once in a while and looking at them and with only 20 coins to look at over and over it would be to boring after I seen them a few times.

mhammerman · November 19, 2007 11:42PM

I'm a big fan of the box of 20 and have been building my box for a few years, after I got my Whitman blue box to house them. Whitman works best because you can put pcgs and ngc and flips in the same box and the lid still fits. The box of 20 works great for my "core" collection. I get a lot of modern stuff; folks sell me their estate findings (old V nickels, a few morgans, maybe a couple of mercs here and there), mint offerings and I keep this stuff in a pile (bags and shoe boxes) separate from my box of 20. The box of 20 allows me to focus on more difficult to get coins that I use to build my collection. Every now and then I dump some of my stray gatherings and put the money towards part of a coin for my box.

I started focusing on the indian gold series a few years ago but was quickly seduced by the classic 5's, then the early N.O. 10's and 5's, then the saints and the 50's era libs and the next thing I knew, I had a gold type collection in my box of 20. I still have ambitions with my box. There is one more indian 10 ('08-s in low MS) I want but I just have to be paitent. There is another saint I want (NM '08 long rays), and I've been lusting after an au stella for a while now but I'm not going to run out and get it because it is low on the list of must have items.

My box of 20 has 21 coins in it right now (one is in a flip) but there's a show coming. I had a numismatic check up at my favorite B&M and he pointed out a couple of wiped coins and a dog that was "Lucky to be in that holder", all of which I knew about but he made me want to upgrade them to more original skins and I should/will do that in time. I have to upgrade a couple of indian 10's already in my box but I want to wait for the right coin with the right money and the right time so I just have to wait for the planets to properly align.

The box of 20 is not exclusive, you can collect other things too. It is also not arrogant because my whole box is worth less than one coin for a lot of folk here but for me, it's the primary focus of my collecting endeavors and suits my collecting ambitions. It allows me to not spray my cash all over the place chasing mediocre coins and not accumulate stuff and call it a collection. The box of 20 is a lifetime challenge and when I'm toast, that box should be very nice because I'm going to be doing this for a good while more.

This is a great way to collect unless you are in to accumulating a series or a registered set of something. It offers a lot of freedom, a chance to focus on particular parts of different series and a gives the collector a chance to become educated in their own little part of the world of numismatics. It allows your collection to evolve with your expertise and it represents the result of study and patience. I endorse the box of 20 concept.

Coin ON!

garsmith · November 19, 2007 11:44PM

I like full sets. So a box of 20 doesn't appeal to me!

secondrepublic · November 19, 2007 11:47PM

The box of 20 approach works if you're downsizing your collection... but probably not if you're just building it from scratch.

STONE · November 19, 2007 11:48PM

I do not consciously do this. I like to assemble many sets and I still have a lot of them left.

I am starting to get some really nice coins, but for the most part they are just new additions to the collection.

seemyauction · November 19, 2007 11:50PM

While I like the idea, it has its draw backs.....

For instance, my next door neighbor and best friend, loves coins & currency. To make a long story short, he is not in a position to spend extra money on coins. I often show him new purchaces and offer them at my cost, He just purchaced a 1938-D Buffalo Nickel NGC Graded MS-66 from me for 50 bucks, which is what I payed for it.

Now if I only had a box of 20 there is no way I could have done this.

Alan

IGWT · November 19, 2007 11:51PM

Putting aside the arbitariness of 20 as the magic number, I suppose it might benefit those for whom quantity reflects either the lack of a goal or the patience necessary to reach it.

Arizonadesertrat · November 20, 2007 12:04AM

From your wording, I assume that investing is a key aspect of your view of coins (and it's very difficult to ignore this when spending significant amounts of money).

I have purchased nearly 90 NGC/PCGS-certified coins this year, and even more when I count others that I cracked out to put into a Dansco 7070 type set album. At this rate, I will have to rent another safety deposit box next year to accommodate my growing collection.

So, I an beginning to view the box of 20 (or 40...) with increasing interest, as a device to force me to exercise self-control and spend more time thinking about quality (vs. quantity) and exactly what makes a particular coin cool. My collecting interests are mostly 19th-century coins, and definitely stop after 1921, so I expect to put selected type coins in a box of 20. But...each coin should have an interesting story to go with it, so mine will include a mint red half cent, an 1893 CC Morgan dollar, 1801 large cent (1/000 engraving error), 1909 matte proof Lincoln cent, etc.

techeff · November 20, 2007 12:11AM

I collect coins not Twinkies.

LanLord · November 20, 2007 12:18AM

I have a crate of 20, it's filled with 2 dansco albums and 20 PCGS boxes of 20 (not to mention 20 NGC boxes of 20).

20 is good, just depends upon how many you have.

ChuckC · November 20, 2007 12:19AM

After my first box of twenty, I will start a second box of twenty

mhammerman · November 20, 2007 12:21AM

HRH...so, what about a box of 20 registry? Would you do it by total average grade (like now), would you do it by averaging the rarity, would you do it by character attributes such as stories or by assigning some value based on the significance of the coins in numismatic history, would you require a complete box...just how could you do this so that the box could be ranked, not that it's a competition or anything?

Come on HRH...hang a nasty 85 mph inside slider over the plate so we can get a look at it.

MrEureka · November 20, 2007 12:29AM

Although the number 20 has no special appeal to this collector of raw coins, the concept of limiting a collection to a certain quantity or volume can be useful. For example, I have a casual interest in Swedish coins. I'm not likely to ever seriously try to build complete sets, yet I've purchased dozens of coins based on the fantasy that "I needed them". Today, I pretty much decided to go to the "one blue box" concept for this collection, and will start eliminating coins ASAP.

On the other hand, I would never limit the number of coins in my Mexican War for Independence collection, as my goal is completion.

RTS · November 20, 2007 12:31AM

I like the idea and am toying with the following set of twenty for large cents...

Middle Dates (10)
Liberty Cap (3)
Flowing Hair (3)
Turban (2)
Late Dates (2)

...I've neither the desire nor the funds to put together a complete set of anything; I just like having a
handful of coins around to admire, play with, research etc. and I think the above would be quite enjoyable.

AUandAG · November 20, 2007 12:32AM

My feeling is that it detracts from collecting and enters into the world of investing. I guess that's not bad, but
really, how fun can that be?

bob

Scavenger · November 20, 2007 12:37AM

One bad thing about collecting a box of twenty, you would have to put up with the annoying statement - "You know for what you spent on those twenty coins, you could have had a complete set"

TahoeDale · November 20, 2007 12:37AM

Jay,

You got me thinking---- and here's what I will keep out of the hundreds of coins I now own.

1864 cent CN in PR 66 D CAM

1794 half dime in 64

1875CC twenty in MS66

1796 quarter in MS61

1794 half in MS61

1796 half in MS64

1811 lg 8 half in MS65

1813 half in MS67

1823 half in MS66

1839 half in MS65

1892-o micro-o half in MS68

1904-S half in MS66

Pan Pac set in 64(average grade)

1796 sm date lg ltrs ED in AU58

1798 sm eagle 15 stars in AU58

1839 Gobrecht in PR63

1884 Trade dollar in PR63

1806 pt 6 $5 in MS64

1864 proof set-Gold in PR66(average grade)

1924 $20 Saint in 66( Brahin pedigree)

I had to do some real serious adjusting to get your Saint in the mix.

originalisbest · November 20, 2007 12:40AM

I can appreciate it from an investor's point of view, but I enjoy all sorts of coins too much for it to be a practical approach for me. From roughly 5¢ to 3,000 per piece is what I enjoy collecting.

Silverstate · November 20, 2007 12:42AM

Funny,
As for the Presidential Dollars Complete Variety Set, Circulation Strikes (2007-2016) registry set.....

It has 46 coins and counting for JUST 2007...

Darn... I already have more than 2 Boxes of twenty for this year!

What is a collector to do?

BAJJERFAN · November 20, 2007 12:46AM

I guess it can work for those who subscribe to it in any of its forms. I suppose I could live with it if circumstances forced me to. I don't think it would be much fun once the box is full; I probly would NOT require that one should leave before a replacement could be added, meaning that the second box of 20 would fill very slowly.

MrEureka · November 20, 2007 12:52AM

HRH...so, what about a box of 20 registry? Would you do it by total average grade (like now), would you do it by averaging the rarity, would you do it by character attributes such as stories or by assigning some value based on the significance of the coins in numismatic history, would you require a complete box...just how could you do this so that the box could be ranked, not that it's a competition or anything?

The only logical way to rank this registry would be by market value.

RYK · November 20, 2007 12:57AM

1924 $20 Saint in 66( Brahin pedigree)

I had to do some real serious adjusting to get your Saint in the mix.

Me, too.

Fortunately, my ex-Brahin Saint was also ex-Akers and Duckor, so it was worth it.

blu62vette · November 20, 2007 1:02AM

It sounds like a great idea but I could not do it. I like to many coins.....

saintguru · November 20, 2007 1:44AM

Dale.....fugeddaboudat 1924.

You need my 1908-S MS66. You would have no problem finding room for it, and it's all yours for a very fair price.

For real.

Bochiman · November 20, 2007 1:49AM

This has been brought up a lot. More than a few threads.
Answer is the same...."no".
To me, it is more like investing than collecting ... unless you collect 20c pieces or something

RYK · November 20, 2007 1:53AM

<< <i>This has been brought up a lot. More than a few threads.
Answer is the same...."no".
To me, it is more like investing than collecting ... unless you collect 20c pieces or something

I can appreciate it from an investor's point of view, but I enjoy all sorts of coins too much for it to be a practical approach for me. From roughly 5¢ to 3,000 per piece is what I enjoy collecting.

My feeling is that it detracts from collecting and enters into the world of investing. I guess that's not bad, but
really, how fun can that be?

If I was doing this for investment reasons, I would collect the 20 in different series. A type set is more appealing to me as sinking lots of money into coins is not my preference. >>

I don't understand why so many people say it is "investing" if you only collect a limited small number of coins. If that's how one chooses to collect, what's the problem? Is there a critical number of coins one must own to be considered a "collector"? If so, what's the number?

mgoodm3 · November 20, 2007 2:09AM

I like the idea and have been working on paring things down to the best and brightest.

As of now it consists of:

Pint Tree shilling EF40
1850 half cent PR65BN
1853 Large Cent MS65BN
1866 MS66RB cent
1866 PR65RB CAM cent
1869 MS66BN cent
1879 PR67BN cent
1882 MS66BN cent
1897 PR67BN cent
1904 PR67BN cent

BECOKA · November 20, 2007 2:25AM

Just can't do it. There is something about completeness, I would rather collect nicely worn less expensive pieces to complete a set than spend the set price on just a couple pieces.

Someday I would like a complete half eagle set from beginning to end. It will take a life time and more than a box of 20. If for some reason I complete this there are quarter eagles, eagles and double eagles to work on.

messydesk · November 20, 2007 2:27AM

<< <i>HRH...so, what about a box of 20 registry? Would you do it by total average grade (like now), would you do it by averaging the rarity, would you do it by character attributes such as stories or by assigning some value based on the significance of the coins in numismatic history, would you require a complete box...just how could you do this so that the box could be ranked, not that it's a competition or anything?

The only logical way to rank this registry would be by market value. >>

That would be the easiest way. It would also make for one hell of a feeding frenzy for $1M+ coins as the well-heeled compete for top spots.

mrearlygold · November 20, 2007 2:27AM

It's a good idea especially from a standpoint of "investing" in coins.

RYK · November 20, 2007 2:41AM

So when I had six large cents and two half cents in my (boyhood) collection, I was an "investor"?

TwoSides2aCoin · November 20, 2007 2:45AM

I like to think of the box of 20 concept as an approach to protecting, not collecting. (protecting your most valueable assets in numismatics and separate from the flock)

I have lots of albums and folders started. Almost none of the coins would I ever get slabbed, even in mint state condition. Why ? Because I like to collect in chronological order with dates and mint marks.

My approach to collecting/hoarding is not with an investor's logic, it is from the love of collecting. This entails investment of time, energy and money.

Plastic is a way of protecting a coin because it either has "collectible" value and needs verification for introduction to the market, or protecting from the grubby mits of people who want to "look" at coins and cannot keep their hands off of them. For this reason, the most valued coins are typically encapsulated. The theory of the box of twenty makes sense to me from the way I view coins. It doesn't mean that I don't or won't own ten or twenty thousand other coins.... it just means that 20 of them are worth setting aside in plastic.

Now as a parttime coin guy.... I submit several coins for grading. Why ? Because people collect coins and enter them in registry sets. I think it's a cool way of collecting, too. It brings camaraderie and competition. The box of twenty concept has no bearing on collectors. It's great how it fits my needs. I like the theory how I've adapted it to me. Each person has their own ideas. None are wrong or right if they are suited to that person.

FilthyBroke · November 20, 2007 2:45AM

Box 'o 20 has a goal predetermined. This helps some of us who otherwise have no concept of regulation or moderation. I personally have four of these boxes, one for IHC, one for type gold, one for wheats, and one for various other cool stuff. None are yet complete, so I don't know how it'll be once full.

It's not an investment mentality for me, more of a goal and a way of moderation.

bluelobster · November 20, 2007 2:46AM

A box of 20 for me will probably end up being a box of 40 or so but it is the way I collect. I used to collect sets of stuff when I was younger and certainly understand it's allure, but now I just want to collect pq examples of US type coins. I realize it seems boring to some who might think you will only have a limited amount of collecting to do, but the reality is I am always looking to upgrade some and if you really are patient and hold your standards it can take a long time to find even one example that will fit your eye. So for me the chase is fun and ongoing and even if I only had 20 or 40 coins but they were beautiful to look and had great variety in type.that's the type of collecting that gets me more excited than looking at complete sets, even though you may have many more coins to look at. As a plus for me, the box of 20 concept lets you cherry pick without regard to the keys which unfortunately are usually only affordable in less than PQ examples. Eye appeal being the rarity for the box of 20 concept.

But as others have said..... to each his own, no way is better, collect what you like, how you like it.

MrHalfDime · November 20, 2007 3:03AM

There have been some very thoughtful, diverse and interesting responses to this question, and I have enjoyed reading every one of them. It just proves the old adage, that there are no 'wrong' ways to collect. This is a hobby, an avocation, intended for enjoyment, and whatever meets your needs is right for you.

For myself, a self-confessed compulsive die marriage collector who has been severely bitten by the fever, the "Box of 20" would never work for me. I collect half dimes by date, by mint mark, by die marriage, and even by die state. I have nearly a "Box of 20" for several individual die marriages, which illustrate a progression of die deterioration. I can't give you a rational reason for doing this, but when you think about it, there is really nothing very rational about much of coin collecting, anyway. It's just fun.

What do you think of the "box of 20" approach to collecting?

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What do you think of the &quot;box of 20&quot; approach to collecting?

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What do you think of the "box of 20" approach to collecting?