It is hard to reconcile with true collector instincts. However, it might be an interesting way to instill a lot of self discipline into assembling a coin set.
Would be fun to do something like the Seinfeld 'bet' with a few VAM freaks to see how long they could handle boxed into a box of 20 mode.
Quotes from Jay Parrino after being the first person to pay over $1M for a coin - the 1996 purchase of the Eliasberg 1913 lib nickel:
<< <i>"This," he said, "is simply reconfirmation of the thing I've been preaching for years: When you buy the right coins, the irreplaceable coins, they just keep rising in value. >>
<< <i>"People are terrified to talk about coins as an investment, but I can tell you that over 40 years, coins have been very good to me. And it's not buying and selling, but buying of the RIGHT coin, the irreplaceable coin, and being patient. It virtually leaves people who need and want those coins with nowhere else to go. They may not like the price, but they don't really have much choice. >>
<< <i>"I really have no plans for selling it," he said. "It's in my box of 20, and that's where it will stay for right now." >>
Great investment advice. Jay always happened to have a few for sale. A box of twenty of high-end coins is a good strategy for a stockbroker or someone who wants a few nice coins that will be great investments. But if you want to be a numismatist and study the coins and learn about the series you collect, no way.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
For those who do subscribe to the box of 20 or similar sized collection concept, that makes more coins available to other collectors who desire larger sets.
Then again if you can get the top 20 coins in a Morgan set its maybe not necessary to actually own the other 80 widgets as one can always go out and get them any time.
The "box of 20" concept, especially interpreted strictly, but even thought of loosely, would seem to almost always decrease the coherence of a collection, so it doesn't really seem to be a good thing IMO.
Seriously - think about this: how many different coins did the US mint issue this year? (include commems, mint-marks etc.) I bet you cant fit them all in a 20 coin set.
Nice idea to collect only the best and leave the rest, however.
“When you don't know what you're talking about, it's hard to know when you're finished.” - Tommy Smothers
<< <i>Building date/mm sets is for investors. Buying a finite number of nice coins, be it ten, twenty, fifty, or one hundred, is for collectors. >>
I think you got it backwards.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Building date/mm sets is for investors. Buying a finite number of nice coins, be it ten, twenty, fifty, or one hundred, is for collectors.
RYK:
I really respect your views as well as what you have assembled. It seems the follow up question then becomes what constitutes a nice coin? Is nice compromised by rarity or does condition rarity all that matters?
I maintain that a box of 20 is okay if there are other coin interests outside the box... (I kinda like that... coin interests outside the box...), but it seems that self imposed limitations may in fact limit the broad dreams, horizons and different coins that one might consider if it were not at the expense of one within the twenty that must go. Would you ever own a Harold II 1d if it were at the expense of selling another coin that may be compelling in its own right?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I have started a "Box of 20" for my 10-month-old grandson. I gave his parents a PCGS box labeled "Jake's Box of 20" with one coin inside. I gave them the web address for PCGS so they could register and track the coins if they wish. I decided it would be nice to give him something other than toys and clothes.
They are under no obligation to keep these as "heirlooms/sentimental gifts." They may liquidate as they wish. Christmas is coming and I already have his gift ready to go.
<< <i>Then again if you can get the top 20 coins in a Morgan set its maybe not necessary to actually own the other 80 widgets as one can always go out and get them any time. >>
This is similar to what I found myself thinking a year or two ago when I was concentrating on buying the key dates in the most popular federal series, Lincoln cents. Once I owned all the keys I found that I wasn't interested in owning the rest of the series. I was fortunate enough to be able to buy the keys in MS 64 or so, on average, and I wasn't interested in upgrading them. The others were so common, there was nothing special about them and I didn't want to spend any money to obtain them when I could use that money to buy other keys, or legitimately rare coins in other series.
I'm a fan of the "box of 20" concept in so far as understanding that quality is better than quantity.
So considering really nice coins, realistically how many boxes of 20 could there be? Would the 93-s Morgan only be box of 20 quality in ms63 or higher or could poor souls like me put their vg6 coin in the box?
<< <i>I have started a "Box of 20" for my 10-month-old grandson. I gave his parents a PCGS box labeled "Jake's Box of 20" with one coin inside. I gave them the web address for PCGS so they could register and track the coins if they wish. I decided it would be nice to give him something other than toys and clothes.
They are under no obligation to keep these as "heirlooms/sentimental gifts." They may liquidate as they wish. Christmas is coming and I already have his gift ready to go.
Garrow >>
I tell my kids if they eat their oatmeal, they might get cheerios
<< <i>So considering really nice coins, realistically how many boxes of 20 could there be? Would the 93-s Morgan only be box of 20 quality in ms63 or higher or could poor souls like me put their vg6 coin in the box? >>
You can put whatever you want in your "Box of 20", but I ain't puttin' any 93-S Morgans in mine.
It seems the follow up question then becomes what constitutes a nice coin? Is nice compromised by rarity or does condition rarity all that matters?
A nice coin is whatever you want it to be.
I maintain that a box of 20 is okay if there are other coin interests outside the box... (I kinda like that... coin interests outside the box...), but it seems that self imposed limitations may in fact limit the broad dreams, horizons and different coins that one might consider if it were not at the expense of one within the twenty that must go. Would you ever own a Harold II 1d if it were at the expense of selling another coin that may be compelling in its own right?
I do not know what a Harold II 1d is, so it has about as much a chance getting in my box as Bajjerfan's 93-S Morgan. Rather than think of "the Box of 20" as something that stifles the collection, think of it as a benchmark or hurdle, and in a good way. That is, in for a coin to get in, it has to be more desirable than one of the coins already there (assuming that the box is "full").
<< <i>Would it be "better" to collect 750 different raw VG to VF Bust Half Dollars by die variety or a box of 20 different unattributed gem common dates? >>
Neither, in my opinion. And that's just it...it's my opinion. Each collector decides what makes them happy.
There are several possible scenarios in which we could compare and debate the merits of one collection of coins over another. I just think it boils down to money available...unless you are very wealthy, you only have a certain amount of money that you can afford to spend on coins and you want to make the best possible use of that money. If I have budgeted $10,000 for one year to buy coins (for example) I would rather spend that $10,000 on a few coins that are the best I can find in whatever criteria I define for the collection, than buy many coins that may be cheaper but will be only average examples of the criteria I've defined.
But I really think the point to this thread (and to the many others like it) is to get people to think about their collecting goals and the different ways one can achieve those goals.
Bottom line - collect what you like, I'll collect what I like. We'll all be happy.
If most collectors actually subscribed to the box of 20 concept or something close to that then coin collecting would be a very dull/dead hobby indeed. This board would probly not exist. Major coin shows would not happen. Why would a dealer go to a show with little chance to sell anything? I guess you could always have a customized Dansco of 20. So what do you think would be in the standard "20 coin Dansco"?
If you are a low value collector buying common stuff in AU grades I don't think there is any reason to pay any attention to it. Good thing the Eliasbergs didn't.
i've always liked the idea a lot....continually trading up to improve the quality of coins in the box....could force you to sell three REALLY COOL coins for one KILLER COIN, thereby also creating two more spots in need of filling....and so on and so on and so on....
I'm too much of a hoarder as well. I like having many examples of different types of coins. I don't visit my safety deposit box very often; usually only after I have purchased several coins (every six months or so.) There are coins in that box that I have totally forgotten about and it is a nice surprise to run across them again.
Harold II was killed at the battle of Hastings in 1066. The hammered silver penney during the very brief reign of Harold II is not just historically significant but it is considered one of the toughest Monarch types to get. A real terrific coin to own and a historical treasure that is second to none.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Stuff like Harold II would have NO INTEREST for me thus I mite have a rather dull box of 20. Then again one could simply have a box of 20 AND a hoard of 2,000.
If I only have room on my walls for 20 paintings, and if the 20 paintings now hanging have no unifying theme other than that I like them, would that make me an art collector or an art investor?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>If I only have room on my walls for 20 paintings, and if the 20 paintings now hanging have no unifying theme other than that I like them, would that make me an art collector or an art investor? >>
Box of 20.... Have you .... No Are you thinking of... No Why? It would not allow me to attain my goals at this time. I could see that approach working, maybe, after I have reached my goals and enjoyed that part of the hunt, (funny- I could never see my self getting to this point with coins that were passed on to me, only coins that I obtained myself). We are all in this for many reasons and some of these wont fit into a "box of twenty". I will admit I have thought about what ones I would put in the box if I had to
Comments
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Would be fun to do something like the Seinfeld 'bet' with a few VAM freaks to see how long they could handle boxed into a box of 20 mode.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>"This," he said, "is simply reconfirmation of the thing I've been preaching for years: When you buy the right coins, the irreplaceable coins, they just keep rising in value. >>
<< <i>"People are terrified to talk about coins as an investment, but I can tell you that over 40 years, coins have been very good to me. And it's not buying and selling, but buying of the RIGHT coin, the irreplaceable coin, and being patient. It virtually leaves people who need and want those coins with nowhere else to go. They may not like the price, but they don't really have much choice. >>
<< <i>"I really have no plans for selling it," he said. "It's in my box of 20, and that's where it will stay for right now." >>
Great investment advice. Jay always happened to have a few for sale. A box of twenty of high-end coins is a good strategy for a stockbroker or someone who wants a few nice coins that will be great investments. But if you want to be a numismatist and study the coins and learn about the series you collect, no way.
Then again if you can get the top 20 coins in a Morgan set its maybe not necessary to actually own the other 80 widgets as one can always go out and get them any time.
<< <i>Would be fun to do something like the Seinfeld 'bet' with a few VAM freaks to see how long they could handle boxed into a box of 20 mode. >>
I'm out.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Messydesk is out!! I'm the Master Of My Domain!
Ed. S.
(EJS)
Seriously - think about this: how many different coins did the US mint issue this year? (include commems, mint-marks etc.) I bet you cant fit them all in a 20 coin set.
Nice idea to collect only the best and leave the rest, however.
Building date/mm sets is for investors. Buying a finite number of nice coins, be it ten, twenty, fifty, or one hundred, is for collectors.
<< <i>Building date/mm sets is for investors. Buying a finite number of nice coins, be it ten, twenty, fifty, or one hundred, is for collectors. >>
I think you got it backwards.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
A "box of twenty" might be the only possible thing that doesn't fit somewhere in my collection.
Building date/mm sets is for investors. Buying a finite number of nice coins, be it ten, twenty, fifty, or one hundred, is for collectors.
RYK:
I really respect your views as well as what you have assembled. It seems the follow up question then becomes what constitutes a nice coin? Is nice compromised by rarity or does condition rarity all that matters?
I maintain that a box of 20 is okay if there are other coin interests outside the box... (I kinda like that... coin interests outside the box...), but it seems that self imposed limitations may in fact limit the broad dreams, horizons and different coins that one might consider if it were not at the expense of one within the twenty that must go. Would you ever own a Harold II 1d if it were at the expense of selling another coin that may be compelling in its own right?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
They are under no obligation to keep these as "heirlooms/sentimental gifts." They may liquidate as they wish. Christmas is coming and I already have his gift ready to go.
Garrow
<< <i>Then again if you can get the top 20 coins in a Morgan set its maybe not necessary to actually own the other 80 widgets as one can always go out and get them any time. >>
This is similar to what I found myself thinking a year or two ago when I was concentrating on buying the key dates in the most popular federal series, Lincoln cents. Once I owned all the keys I found that I wasn't interested in owning the rest of the series. I was fortunate enough to be able to buy the keys in MS 64 or so, on average, and I wasn't interested in upgrading them. The others were so common, there was nothing special about them and I didn't want to spend any money to obtain them when I could use that money to buy other keys, or legitimately rare coins in other series.
I'm a fan of the "box of 20" concept in so far as understanding that quality is better than quantity.
In what way is quality "better" than quantity?
Would it be "better" to collect 750 different raw VG to VF Bust Half Dollars by die variety or a box of 20 different unattributed gem common dates?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I have started a "Box of 20" for my 10-month-old grandson. I gave his parents a PCGS box labeled "Jake's Box of 20" with one coin inside. I gave them the web address for PCGS so they could register and track the coins if they wish. I decided it would be nice to give him something other than toys and clothes.
They are under no obligation to keep these as "heirlooms/sentimental gifts." They may liquidate as they wish. Christmas is coming and I already have his gift ready to go.
Garrow >>
I tell my kids if they eat their oatmeal, they might get cheerios
<< <i>So considering really nice coins, realistically how many boxes of 20 could there be? Would the 93-s Morgan only be box of 20 quality in ms63 or higher or could poor souls like me put their vg6 coin in the box? >>
You can put whatever you want in your "Box of 20", but I ain't puttin' any 93-S Morgans in mine.
It seems the follow up question then becomes what constitutes a nice coin? Is nice compromised by rarity or does condition rarity all that matters?
A nice coin is whatever you want it to be.
I maintain that a box of 20 is okay if there are other coin interests outside the box... (I kinda like that... coin interests outside the box...), but it seems that self imposed limitations may in fact limit the broad dreams, horizons and different coins that one might consider if it were not at the expense of one within the twenty that must go. Would you ever own a Harold II 1d if it were at the expense of selling another coin that may be compelling in its own right?
I do not know what a Harold II 1d is, so it has about as much a chance getting in my box as Bajjerfan's 93-S Morgan. Rather than think of "the Box of 20" as something that stifles the collection, think of it as a benchmark or hurdle, and in a good way. That is, in for a coin to get in, it has to be more desirable than one of the coins already there (assuming that the box is "full").
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Would it be "better" to collect 750 different raw VG to VF Bust Half Dollars by die variety or a box of 20 different unattributed gem common dates? >>
Neither, in my opinion. And that's just it...it's my opinion. Each collector decides what makes them happy.
There are several possible scenarios in which we could compare and debate the merits of one collection of coins over another. I just think it boils down to money available...unless you are very wealthy, you only have a certain amount of money that you can afford to spend on coins and you want to make the best possible use of that money. If I have budgeted $10,000 for one year to buy coins (for example) I would rather spend that $10,000 on a few coins that are the best I can find in whatever criteria I define for the collection, than buy many coins that may be cheaper but will be only average examples of the criteria I've defined.
But I really think the point to this thread (and to the many others like it) is to get people to think about their collecting goals and the different ways one can achieve those goals.
Bottom line - collect what you like, I'll collect what I like. We'll all be happy.
I agree. To each his own.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>If I only have room on my walls for 20 paintings, and if the 20 paintings now hanging have no unifying theme other than that I like them, would that make me an art collector or an art investor? >>
Art collector.
WHy does there have to be a theme?
Have you ....
No
Are you thinking of...
No
Why?
It would not allow me to attain my goals at this time. I could see that approach working, maybe, after I have reached my goals and enjoyed that part of the hunt, (funny- I could never see my self getting to this point with coins that were passed on to me, only coins that I obtained myself). We are all in this for many reasons and some of these wont fit into a "box of twenty". I will admit I have thought about what ones I would put in
the box if I had to