There is something illegal about the Liberty dollars. Look up 'liberty dollars' in youtube. You will find some videos of the founder of the LD using them in the public. He represents them as "the new silver dollar coin", without every mentioning its true status. People accepted them in the videos thinking they were issued by the federal government...
Barter is fine, however, I, personally, believe this guy, and group, borders on deception with calling them "Liberty Dollars" and such. Call it Liberty Drachmas and then try it....see if it is as successful.
I think the issue is that they are called "dollars" and then trying to use them as currency. It's not the fact that he is trying to trade a medal for stuff. It's that he's calling it a dollar (or multiples there of) and trying to use it.
Editted to add:
1) The owner, Bernard, contacted me to have the Liberty Dollar added to the So-Called Dollars that I am working on. I guess he doesn't consider them real dollars either. And no, they are not going to be in the book.
2) The article mentions that this "news" only came from the e-mail that Liberty Dollar sent out. Nothing else confirms that it happened.
If anyone is breaking the law, it is the FEDERAL RESERVE!!!! By law, the definition of a dollar is 371 grains of silver. Last time I looked at a "dollar bill", no silver.
Would this be happening if they called them Liberty Bucks? "Buck" is slang with no official meaning.
By the way -- if anyone is selling them for huge profits at eBay -- the Feds have the purchasing records. They know who you are and what you paid for them. You never know if that means the IRS may get their hands on the list. Better pay your taxes on the gain!
<< <i>I think the issue is that they are called "dollars" and then trying to use them as currency. It's not the fact that he is trying to trade a medal for stuff. It's that he's calling it a dollar (or multiples there of) and trying to use it.
Editted to add:
1) The owner, Bernard, contacted me to have the Liberty Dollar added to the So-Called Dollars that I am working on. I guess he doesn't consider them real dollars either. And no, they are not going to be in the book.
2) The article mentions that this "news" only came from the e-mail that Liberty Dollar sent out. Nothing else confirms that it happened. >>
Correct as to the use of the term "dollars." That issued was settled in the 19th Century with the Cal Gold late dates. 1) Glad to see that they are not polluting the new SCD book. 2) The lack of press coverage seems to be because the Feds won't confirm anything, and the media do not consider the alleged victims to be a reliable source. I have spoken with one person in the trade papers who is convinced that something did happen, but they cannot confirm the who, what, where, when and why. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I bought some. ( Liberty Dollars ) They're very well made. Their customer service was less than helpful otherwise I would have bought more.
I missed out on the Ron Paul dollars. I would have liked to get some of those. Alas, I've been saved from myself by the government. No doubt there's a lot of people proud of at least creating the largest government on earth. What an accomplishment.
Another ebay bonanza if you were lucky enough to buy one!! Question is...would you buy one now knowing that this story will probably get more press during the week?
Don't worry, the mint will be selling Ron Paul dollars soon. They just came into possession of a great hoard of them. Of course you know there is a one per household limit.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Straight off the US Mint's website - it says the Liberty Dollars are illegal!!!!
NORFED’s "Liberty Dollars"
Source: NORFED, Inc. The National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code (NORFED) is producing and marketing gold and silver medallions that NORFED calls "Liberty Dollars." The United States Mint and the United States Department of Justice have received inquiries regarding the legality of these so-called "Liberty Dollar" medallions. The United States Mint urges consumers who are considering the purchase or use of these items to be aware that they are not genuine United States Mint bullion coins and they are not legal tender. These medallions are privately produced products and are not backed by, nor affiliated in any way with, the United States Government. Moreover, prosecutors with the Department of Justice have determined that the use of these gold and silver NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions as circulating money is a Federal crime.
Consumers may find advertisements for these medallions confusing and should take note of several issues related to them.
First, the advertisements refer to the product as "real money" and "currency." These medallions might look like real money because they— • Bear the inscriptions, "Liberty," "Dollars," "Trust in God" (similar to "In God We Trust"), and "USA" (similar to "United States of America"), and an inscription purporting to denote the year of production; and
• Depict images that are similar to United States coins, such as the torch on the reverses of the current dime coin, 1986 Statute of Liberty commemorative silver dollar and 1993 Bill of Rights commemorative half-dollar, and the Liberty Head designs on the obverses of United States gold coins from the mid-1800s to the early 1900s. However, despite their misleading appearance, NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions are not genuine United States Mint coins and they are not legal tender.
Second, the advertisements confusingly refer to NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions as "legal" and "constitutional." However, under the Constitution ( Article I, section 8, clause 5 ), Congress has the exclusive power to coin money of the United States and to regulate its value. By statute ( 31 U.S.C. § 5112(a) ), Congress specifies the coins that the Secretary of the Treasury is authorized to mint and issue and requires the Secretary to carry out these duties at the United States Mint (31 U.S.C. § 5131). Accordingly, the United States Mint is the only entity in the United States with the lawful authority to mint and issue legal tender United States coins.
Under 18 U.S.C. § 486, it is a Federal crime to utter or pass, or attempt to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver intended for use as current money except as authorized by law. According to the NORFED website, "Liberty merchants" are encouraged to accept NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions and offer them as change in sales transactions of merchandise or services. Further, NORFED tells "Liberty associates" that they can earn money by obtaining NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions at a discount and then can "spend [them] into circulation." Therefore, NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions are specifically intended to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with the circulating coinage of the United States. Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that the use of NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions violates 18 U.S.C. § 486.
<< <i>Straight off the US Mint's website - it says the Liberty Dollars are illegal!!!!
...
Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that the use of NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions violates 18 U.S.C. § 486. >>
I'm not an apologist for NORFED by any stretch of the imagination, but just because a federal prosecutor claims they are illegal doesn't make it so. Government agencies and prosecutors can call anything they want illegal. But unless/until judges and juries agree with them, it's just hot air.
<< <i>Straight off the US Mint's website - it says the Liberty Dollars are illegal!!!!
...
Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that the use of NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions violates 18 U.S.C. § 486. >>
I'm not an apologist for NORFED by any stretch of the imagination, but just because a federal prosecutor claims they are illegal doesn't make it so. Government agencies and prosecutors can call anything they want illegal. But unless/until judges and juries agree with them, it's just hot air. >>
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Except for burning the flag, trashing our country and cheering for America's enemies...HIPPIES NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING!Text
Other than getting the US out of a futile war supporting a viciously corrupt regime in Viet Nam, advocating cleaning up the air, rivers, and lakes of America, and bringing about real Civil Rights reform in this country, yeah I have to agree with you they've never solved anything! Then again, maybe you'd like polluted rivers and hopelessly repressed minorities that "know their place"! Stop being so fricking ignorant!
<< <i>1) The owner, Bernard, contacted me to have the Liberty Dollar added to the So-Called Dollars that I am working on. I guess he doesn't consider them real dollars either. And no, they are not going to be in the book. >>
<< <i>Under 18 U.S.C. § 486, it is a Federal crime to utter or pass, or attempt to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver intended for use as current money except as authorized by law. >>
Does that mean the copper ones or any clad ones would be legal?
You're having delusions of grandeur again. - Susan Ivanova Well, if you're gonna have delusions, may as well go for the really satisfying ones. - Marcus Cole
The likely arrest will follow criminal charges once they present evidence to support their case.
The warrant did include seizure of records of customers, dealers, and sales. It could get pretty ugly if they started chasing down all those rabbits like RIAA does song pirates. And if they did that you know how many alarms would be going off regarding the possibility of an imminent seizure of privately held gold in general.
<< <i>I love the design. Excellent detail. Where can I buy some? At least it's back by something. Unlike our own money which is printed upon demand, and backed by consumer confidence. >>
<< <i>There is something illegal about the Liberty dollars. Look up 'liberty dollars' in youtube. You will find some videos of the founder of the LD using them in the public. He represents them as "the new silver dollar coin", without every mentioning its true status. People accepted them in the videos thinking they were issued by the federal government... >>
I have been defending this guy's form of money and making them, but I agree he was being deceptive and taking advantage of ignorant people. he should at least be a little more up front with them
never have. If I had one and used it it would be simply as barter with the other person fully aware that they are accepting one ounce of silver. I wouldn't try to pass it off as govt' issued money.
rgl1345
Posts: 674
Comments
Nobody is forcing people to buy his Liberty Dollars. If they choose too, and people accept them as "barter," than so be it.
There is nothing illegal about it.
Call it Liberty Drachmas and then try it....see if it is as successful.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Editted to add:
1) The owner, Bernard, contacted me to have the Liberty Dollar added to the So-Called Dollars that I am working on. I guess he doesn't consider them real dollars either. And no, they are not going to be in the book.
2) The article mentions that this "news" only came from the e-mail that Liberty Dollar sent out. Nothing else confirms that it happened.
If anyone is breaking the law, it is the FEDERAL RESERVE!!!! By law, the definition of a dollar is 371 grains of silver. Last time I looked at a "dollar bill", no silver.
By the way -- if anyone is selling them for huge profits at eBay -- the Feds have the purchasing records. They know who you are and what you paid for them. You never know if that means the IRS may get their hands on the list. Better pay your taxes on the gain!
<< <i>I think the issue is that they are called "dollars" and then trying to use them as currency. It's not the fact that he is trying to trade a medal for stuff. It's that he's calling it a dollar (or multiples there of) and trying to use it.
Editted to add:
1) The owner, Bernard, contacted me to have the Liberty Dollar added to the So-Called Dollars that I am working on. I guess he doesn't consider them real dollars either. And no, they are not going to be in the book.
2) The article mentions that this "news" only came from the e-mail that Liberty Dollar sent out. Nothing else confirms that it happened. >>
Correct as to the use of the term "dollars." That issued was settled in the 19th Century with the Cal Gold late dates.
1) Glad to see that they are not polluting the new SCD book.
2) The lack of press coverage seems to be because the Feds won't confirm anything, and the media do not consider the alleged victims to be a reliable source. I have spoken with one person in the trade papers who is convinced that something did happen, but they cannot confirm the who, what, where, when and why.
TD
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_id_liberty_dollar_raids.html
They actually contacted law enforcement officials.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Looks like we finally have a report from a reasonably credible source:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_id_liberty_dollar_raids.html
They actually contacted law enforcement officials.
Russ, NCNE >>
We don't let the PI into Bellevue
Notice I said "reasonably" credible.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Ron,
Notice I said "reasonably" credible.
Russ, NCNE >>
<< <i>First eBay auction for Ron Paul "Dollar" to close post-raid fetches $331 >>
HOLY CRAP!
Russ, NCNE
I missed out on the Ron Paul dollars. I would have liked to get some of those. Alas, I've been saved from myself by the government. No doubt there's a lot of people proud of at least creating the largest government on earth. What an accomplishment.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
NORFED’s "Liberty Dollars"
Source: NORFED, Inc.
The National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code (NORFED) is producing and marketing gold and silver medallions that NORFED calls "Liberty Dollars." The United States Mint and the United States Department of Justice have received inquiries regarding the legality of these so-called "Liberty Dollar" medallions. The United States Mint urges consumers who are considering the purchase or use of these items to be aware that they are not genuine United States Mint bullion coins and they are not legal tender. These medallions are privately produced products and are not backed by, nor affiliated in any way with, the United States Government. Moreover, prosecutors with the Department of Justice have determined that the use of these gold and silver NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions as circulating money is a Federal crime.
Consumers may find advertisements for these medallions confusing and should take note of several issues related to them.
First, the advertisements refer to the product as "real money" and "currency." These medallions might look like real money because they—
• Bear the inscriptions, "Liberty," "Dollars," "Trust in God" (similar to "In God We Trust"), and "USA" (similar to "United States of America"), and an inscription purporting to denote the year of production; and
• Depict images that are similar to United States coins, such as the torch on the reverses of the current dime coin, 1986 Statute of Liberty commemorative silver dollar and 1993 Bill of Rights commemorative half-dollar, and the Liberty Head designs on the obverses of United States gold coins from the mid-1800s to the early 1900s.
However, despite their misleading appearance, NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions are not genuine United States Mint coins and they are not legal tender.
Second, the advertisements confusingly refer to NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions as "legal" and "constitutional." However, under the Constitution ( Article I, section 8, clause 5 ), Congress has the exclusive power to coin money of the United States and to regulate its value. By statute ( 31 U.S.C. § 5112(a) ), Congress specifies the coins that the Secretary of the Treasury is authorized to mint and issue and requires the Secretary to carry out these duties at the United States Mint (31 U.S.C. § 5131). Accordingly, the United States Mint is the only entity in the United States with the lawful authority to mint and issue legal tender United States coins.
Under 18 U.S.C. § 486, it is a Federal crime to utter or pass, or attempt to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver intended for use as current money except as authorized by law. According to the NORFED website, "Liberty merchants" are encouraged to accept NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions and offer them as change in sales transactions of merchandise or services. Further, NORFED tells "Liberty associates" that they can earn money by obtaining NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions at a discount and then can "spend [them] into circulation." Therefore, NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions are specifically intended to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with the circulating coinage of the United States. Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that the use of NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions violates 18 U.S.C. § 486.
<< <i>Straight off the US Mint's website - it says the Liberty Dollars are illegal!!!!
...
Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that the use of NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions violates 18 U.S.C. § 486. >>
I'm not an apologist for NORFED by any stretch of the imagination, but just because a federal prosecutor claims they are illegal doesn't make it so. Government agencies and prosecutors can call anything they want illegal. But unless/until judges and juries agree with them, it's just hot air.
any one like these? i kinda do but i think this is worse than the so called "liberty dollar"
thanx
-paul
<< <i>
<< <i>Straight off the US Mint's website - it says the Liberty Dollars are illegal!!!!
...
Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that the use of NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions violates 18 U.S.C. § 486. >>
I'm not an apologist for NORFED by any stretch of the imagination, but just because a federal prosecutor claims they are illegal doesn't make it so. Government agencies and prosecutors can call anything they want illegal. But unless/until judges and juries agree with them, it's just hot air. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Looks like we finally have a report from a reasonably credible source:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_id_liberty_dollar_raids.html
They actually contacted law enforcement officials.
Russ, NCNE >>
We don't let the PI into Bellevue
Speak for yourself...I don't like the Times here in Redmond
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Liberty Dollars already sold.
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/nov/16/liberty-dollar-leader-expecting-arrest/
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/nov/16/feds-raidliberty-coinoffices/
Other than getting the US out of a futile war supporting a viciously corrupt regime in Viet Nam, advocating cleaning up the air, rivers, and lakes of America, and bringing about real Civil Rights reform in this country, yeah I have to agree with you they've never solved anything! Then again, maybe you'd like polluted rivers and hopelessly repressed minorities that "know their place"! Stop being so fricking ignorant!
<< <i>1) The owner, Bernard, contacted me to have the Liberty Dollar added to the So-Called Dollars that I am working on. I guess he doesn't consider them real dollars either. And no, they are not going to be in the book. >>
Does the new book cover late date modern SCDs?
<< <i>Under 18 U.S.C. § 486, it is a Federal crime to utter or pass, or attempt to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver intended for use as current money except as authorized by law. >>
Does that mean the copper ones or any clad ones would be legal?
<< <i>One of the so called coins.
I think it sets the record for having the most different font styles used on a single coin/token/medal.
I count 12 different.
In Paul They Trust (The Feds May Differ)
Happy Rock Wrens
You're having delusions of grandeur again. - Susan Ivanova
Well, if you're gonna have delusions, may as well go for the really satisfying ones. - Marcus Cole
legal coins that are as beautiful.
Camelot
<< <i>Arrest expected. Wonder if US Treasury Agents will confiscate
Liberty Dollars already sold.
<a href="http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/nov/16/liberty-dollar-leader-expecting-arrest/">http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/nov/16/liberty-dollar-leader-expecting-arrest/</A> >>
The likely arrest will follow criminal charges once they present evidence to support their case.
The warrant did include seizure of records of customers, dealers, and sales. It could get pretty ugly if they started chasing down all those rabbits like RIAA does song pirates. And if they did that you know how many alarms would be going off regarding the possibility of an imminent seizure of privately held gold in general.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
At least it's back by something. Unlike our own money which is printed upon demand,
and backed by consumer confidence.
latest from the Evansville Courier & Press
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/nov/17/libertydollar-headanticipates-his-arrest/
<< <i>I love the design. Excellent detail. Where can I buy some? At least it's back by something. Unlike our own money which is printed upon demand, and backed by consumer confidence. >>
The store is closed
<< <i>There is something illegal about the Liberty dollars. Look up 'liberty dollars' in youtube. You will find some videos of the founder of the LD using them in the public. He represents them as "the new silver dollar coin", without every mentioning its true status. People accepted them in the videos thinking they were issued by the federal government... >>
I have been defending this guy's form of money and making them, but I agree he was being deceptive and taking advantage of ignorant people. he should at least be a little more up front with them
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
<< <i>"When the people own the money, they control the government," von NotHaus said. "When the government owns the money, it controls the people." >>
Looks like the truth came out.