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Kennedy Half Dollars: The Morgan Dollars of the 21st Century
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
So says Heritage. Interesting write-up in this auction:
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?SaleNo=454&LotIdNo=24094&txtSearch=&hdnSearch=true
Russ, NCNE
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?SaleNo=454&LotIdNo=24094&txtSearch=&hdnSearch=true
Russ, NCNE
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lowest mintages. There are many dates where the mid-grades are
tough to find. And then, of course, there are the VAMS and the neat
varieties. The Kennedys have some spectacular varieties with some
even appearing in mint sets. There are some pretty neat errors as
well such as the struck on quarter stock coins.
The rarities are often overlooked. There's apparently a '71-D 40%
silver and there are several '77-D's. There were a few '76-P proofs
minted though none of these are known today.
Further, the Morgan series features legitimate rarities that are tough in all grades, not just condition rarities.
Besides, a poorly struck Morgan has far more hair detail than even the most heavily accented hair Kennedy !!!
Sorry, I have to disagree utterly with Heritage's bizarre comparison.
OK people, flame away ...
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
<< <i>Hmm, let's see, one series comprises large, detailed, attractive silver coins with an artistic and idealized image of Miss Liberty, and has been a staple of the collecting community for decades; while the other series features one of our blandest profiles of a dead President, is seriously lacking in artistic detail, and witnessed the demise and debasement of our coinage from silver to cheap clad alloys. >>
Don't forget that Morgans were affectionately called "Buzzard Dollars" by contemporary Americans that didn't think they were artistic or beautiful. It's taken time and the passing of generations to change that.
Also Morgans only became the staple of the collecting community after the Mint released bags worth of them. The Mint may be building up bags of JFKs halves. Now they just need to tone well
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
<< <i>Zoins, they will only tone well if they are primarily silver !!! All that clad crap ain't gonna tone well ... >>
Who knows what weird stuff may be going on inside Federal vaults.
<< <i>but if there were legitimate rarities (other than those based solely on condition), then I would be more interested ... >>
It would be hard to consider most circulating Morgans rare on the Sheldon scale. Proofs are collector pieces so it's debatable whether they can be considered "legitimate rarities." Some people call these "manufactured" rarities. In any event, it seems that most collectors like Morgans because they are common with condition rarities.
<< <i>but if there were legitimate rarities (other than those based solely on condition), then I would be more interested ... >>
The 1964 SMS Kennedy is rarer than any Morgan dollar.
Russ, NCNE
There are other series that I have collected that are neither precious metals nor include images of Miss Liberty ... for example, the shield nickel and two cent piece. Each, however, does offer interesting rarities, such as the 1867 With Rays proof and 1880 business strike nickels, and the 1864 Small Motto and 1872 business strike two cent pieces.
I think what bothers me most is two things: (1) the images of dead Presidents (which annoy me both on principle and artistically); and (2) the fact that modern coinage has been debased from the original alloys, often replacing them with cheaper and harder alloys that therefore do not support a wealth of detail nor high relief in high-volume production .... and I suppose (3) I just find the designs of most moderns (especially the obverses) to be quite boring.
Best,
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
Collectors should stay with other series and leave the ugly Kennedys alone!
if there is one coin that i see that is overpriced the most it is morgans.
if there is one coin that strikes me as useless in commerce, at this
moment, it is the half dollar.
at least morgan collectors have some silver, while kennedy collectors
get 50 cents.
i agree with sunnywood except that i think the design is quite ugly.
liberty looks like a man dressed up like some forest elf.
and i can see why that chicken neck on that eagle is referred as
a buzzard. lol.
russ, even the 1895 morgan proof has more survivors then the
the SMS you mentioned?
<< <i>russ, even the 1895 morgan proof has more survivors then the
the SMS you mentioned? >>
Many fold more survivors.
Russ, NCNE
We are talking about Kennedy's here guys.
What cladking says is true, but can apply to just about every series of coins from every nation on the earth. (except for the VAM part
Comparing Kennedy halfs to Morgans dollars is a little bit of a stretch.
Kennedy halfs will always be a horrific looking coin.
Sorry but true.
Hold on to the 1964-1967 Kennedys and deep six the rest.
I'm with fc on this; I don't like either series, and I think the last attractive coin minted in the U.S. was the Walker. To me, everything else is spending money, except for the junk silver, which I redeem for melt if / when I get enough of it.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>The longer an auction coin's description, the more the auction company expects to get for it. Russ, that's all it is, nothing more. >>
Sometimes, but not in this case. The description is lengthy because this is the opening coin for a consignment group of high grade early date examples that haven't seen the light of day in several years. In fact, this coin is the lowest value of the group.
Russ, NCNE
All the real rarities are in the Kennedy series. As for them being "clad crap", what
do you want for a half dollar? This isn't 1964 any more than it is 1879. Clad is really
a pretty remarkable coinage material. It's hard to strike up but it wears forever. The
original clad material was "explosion bonded" and actually employed dynamite to com-
plete the bonding process. Some might not find that as glamorous as silver but it's
still a very remarkable composition.
And there are some tough (not rare) Kennedys as well.
<< <i>At least the Morgans had beauty in engraving. >>
That's subjective.
<< <i>The 1964 SMS Kennedy is rarer than any Morgan dollar.
Russ, NCNE >>
1878 Rev. of 79 Proof
1879-O Proof
1883-O Proof
1893-CC Proof
1921 Proof
1921-S Proof
Maybe about 100 made of all combined.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>The original clad material was "explosion bonded" and actually employed dynamite to complete the bonding process. >>
I didn't know that but that's very cool.
<< <i><< The 1964 SMS Kennedy is rarer than any Morgan dollar.
Russ, NCNE >>
1878 Rev. of 79 Proof
1879-O Proof
1883-O Proof
1893-CC Proof
1921 Proof
1921-S Proof
Maybe about 100 made of all combined. >>
Still at least as rare. And, if you want to count anomolies such as branch mint proofs, the 1976 P mint proof Kennedy blows away any of the Morgans on that list.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i><< The 1964 SMS Kennedy is rarer than any Morgan dollar.
Russ, NCNE >>
1878 Rev. of 79 Proof
1879-O Proof
1883-O Proof
1893-CC Proof
1921 Proof
1921-S Proof
Maybe about 100 made of all combined. >>
Still at least as rare. And, if you want to count anomolies such as branch mint proofs, the 1976 P mint proof Kennedy blows away any of the Morgans on that list.
Russ, NCNE >>
Isn't the 64 SMS half an anomaly itself?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>I don't believe I've seen a Kennedy half in circulation in the last 20 years. >>
I have, but I haven't seen any Morgans
The 1964 SMS Kennedy is rarer than any Morgan dollar.
Even the 1895-P business strike?
<< <i>I don't believe I've seen a Kennedy half in circulation in the last 20 years. >>
I have. I see them all the time in Houston. I've gotten them in change and when I buy the few rolls my favorite bank teller hoards away, I usually have quite a few to put back into circulation.
A few months ago, I paid for close to $100 in groceries with clad Kennedys. At first the cashier wasn't sure what they were and called her supervisor. After that, I was like a celebrity. All the employees wanted to keep one. The lady behind me asked for some of them in change.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>I don't believe I've seen a Kennedy half in circulation in the last 20 years. >>
I just received one in change at a football concession yesterday. The joke was on them-I paid with two dollar bills...
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
<< <i>
<< <i>but if there were legitimate rarities (other than those based solely on condition), then I would be more interested ... >>
The 1964 SMS Kennedy is rarer than any Morgan dollar.
Russ, NCNE >>
But Russ, saying that a 64SMS is rarer than any Morgan is a moot issue- there is no official record of these being made, just a speculative that 20 or so sets were minted, and then it is just about next to impossible to find 1 set that is raw- never seen or touched by the TPG's.
I have seen 2 full sets in PCGS plastic- graded within the last 10 years, but only 1 of these sets had what looked like provenance (OGP).
I personally would love to see 1 set raw.
For all we know- there may have been 2-3000 of these made and they are being held quietly in the 'vault'.
Mebbe they will cut em loose on the 50th of JFK's demise.
<< <i>Some of us don't even regard SMS coins as anything more than a superfluous distinction. >>
I consider them similar to proofs.
<< <i>Perhaps the SMS coins ushered in the beginning of the modern era of additional "finishes" to be collected. >>
I consider them an extension of collector versions of coins which started with proofs (and the 1804 dollar), not the start of something new.
If we remove special finishes such as proofs and SMS along with varieties, are there any "legitimate rarites" for either Morgans or JFKs? Counting only coins that have been seen, i.e. not the 1895.