Old San Francisco mint cornerstone
pontiacinf
Posts: 8,915 ✭✭
I have always been intrigued by the fact that the cornerstone has never been located. Im not an expert on building in anyway, but I find it odd that after so many years no one has located it. Is there any published articles on this subject that anyone here can share?
any opinions?
any opinions?
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
0
Comments
that contain memorbilia.
bob
<< <i>Not familiar with the SF mint cornerstone. Are you sure there was one? Not all buildings have cornerstones
that contain memorbilia >>
Oh, yeah, some nearly unique coins were supposedly struck just for the purpose of putting them in there, can't remember which ones exactly, but believe the year was 1870?
SAN FRANCISCO MINT CORNERSTONE MYSTERY CRACKED
Rich Kelly and Nancy Oliver write: "After six years of
searching we have found something that we believe to be quite
exciting news. We have found government documented proof
of the exact coinage that was placed into the cornerstone of the
second San Francisco Mint. There has been much speculation
on this issue, but no more. There were a few interesting surprises
which will be revealed in the April 12th issue of Coin World ....
we hope you all get a chance to read it!"
<< <i>Talked to one of these folks at the ANA. They still have not located the cornerstone in the building, and secondly they believe that even if they did that most of its contents would be melted or otherwise damaged due to the fire following the earthquake. >>
yah, you can still see the fire damage where the flames scorched the marble. they scrubbed off the black parts but left some mighty "altered surfaces" on the building.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Is that where all 700 1873-S Liberty Seated dollars were hidden?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Is that where all 700 1873-S Liberty Seated dollars were hidden?
Not likely. The cornerstone was layed in 1870.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Talked to one of these folks at the ANA. They still have not located the cornerstone in the building, and secondly they believe that even if they did that most of its contents would be melted or otherwise damaged due to the fire following the earthquake. >>
As someone else had already mentioned, the cornerstone of the building should be located in the Northeast corner of the building. It should also be the first part of the foundation. Considering the Old Mint had a full basement, the Cornerstone is probable at least ten feet below the ground level. I'm not sure if the heat of the SF fire would have damaged anything insulated by more then ten feet of earth considering that I doubt the main fire was burning for any length of time right next to the building (unless there was a wood pile stacked up next to the building for fuel)!
JMHO
<< <i>
<< <i>Talked to one of these folks at the ANA. They still have not located the cornerstone in the building, and secondly they believe that even if they did that most of its contents would be melted or otherwise damaged due to the fire following the earthquake. >>
As someone else had already mentioned, the cornerstone of the building should be located in the Northeast corner of the building. It should also be the first part of the foundation. Considering the Old Mint had a full basement, the Cornerstone is probable at least ten feet below the ground level. I'm not sure if the heat of the SF fire would have damaged anything insulated by more then ten feet of earth considering that I doubt the main fire was burning for any length of time right next to the building (unless there was a wood pile stacked up next to the building for fuel)!
JMHO
Thats a very good point.
I really appreaciate everyones input here, you guys are great
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>Hm, smells like a second example of the 1870-S half dime possibly.
There was supposedly an 1870-S $3 gold coin in the cornerstone. This coin is currently considered unique.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Hm, smells like a second example of the 1870-S half dime possibly.
There was supposedly an 1870-S $3 gold coin in the cornerstone. This coin is currently considered unique. >>
Two unique coins, plus one currently unknown - - the 1870-S QUARTER - - are supposedly in the cornerstone along with another of the 1870-S Seated dollars, and the other 1870-S coinage! Kelly and Oliver proved that dies were made for the 1870-S quarter and I think they proved it was struck.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>Hm, smells like a second example of the 1870-S half dime possibly.
I wonder what would happen if it was opened and there was NO 1870 s half dime? Would the only known specimen be considered a fake? A numismatic mystery?
Or what if there was an 1870 s half dime but it was from a different die pair?
Just curious if either of these things happened to come to pass, how would the numismatic community deal with it?
Rob
If you can find it we'll grade the coins for free and pay for the dynamite or whatever else you need!
hrh
A side point, the $3 mintmark on the known example was engraved by hand - so perhaps other pieces in the cornerstone are also hand engraved examples.
<< <i>If you can find it we'll grade the coins for free and pay for the dynamite or whatever else you need!
hrh >>
I can see the CW headlines now, "HRH Offers to Blow-up Old SF Mint"
That is very interesting, and something that I did not know. You can learn something new here every day.
I can offer some information on the S mint mark and reverse die of the unique 1870-S half dime, however. In the November 1996 issue of the Gobrecht Journal (official quarterly journal of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club) I wrote an article in which I presented two new die marriages for the 1871-S half dime. My research of this date led me to discover a new, previously unreported reverse die, plus a new, previously unreported obverse die, as well. From these dies, the only previously known die marriage was the Valentine 1 (V1), mating obverse die 1 with reverse die 1. My new V2 paired the same obverse die 1 with the newly discovered reverse die 2. My new V3 paired the new obverse die 2 with reverse die 1, as used in the V1.
At the 2000 ANA Summer Convention, in Philadelphia, I was privileged to have the opportunity to study, up close and personal (and with armed guards at either shoulder), the unique 1870-S half dime, which was consigned to the Larry & Ira Goldberg auction at that show. I was able to identify that the very same reverse die that I had discovered in 1996, and as used on the 1871-S V2, was the same die used on the unique 1870-S half dime. It is characterized by a 0.7 mm S mint mark, and the S is filled. The right side of the mint mark aligns with the right side of the foot of the left upright of M in DIME. There are no die cracks on this reverse die on the 1870-S, nor are there any die cracks on any example of the 1871-S V2 that I have seen. The mint mark is definitely punched, and not hand cut.
Maybe Geraldo Rivera can do a made-for-TV special on the opening of the San Francisco Mint cornerstone.
<< <i>A side point, the $3 mintmark on the known example was engraved by hand - so perhaps other pieces in the cornerstone are also hand engraved examples. >>
For clarification, the mintmark was engraved into the die rather than into the actual coin. The parent mint in Philadelphia forgot to add the mintmark before shipping the die to the San Francisco mint and since transportation was so slow back then, it didn't make sense to send it back.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>If you can find it we'll grade the coins for free and pay for the dynamite or whatever else you need!
hrh >>
How about bail and an attorney?
<< <i>
<< <i>A side point, the $3 mintmark on the known example was engraved by hand - so perhaps other pieces in the cornerstone are also hand engraved examples. >>
For clarification, the mintmark was engraved into the die rather than into the actual coin. The parent mint in Philadelphia forgot to add the mintmark before shipping the die to the San Francisco mint and since transportation was so slow back then, it didn't make sense to send it back. >>
Good point. Curiously, one of the 1870 $1 gold dies used in SF didn't have a MM either - but they used it anyway.
And the 1870-S $1 silver is also a strange case - the MM is clearly punched, but the size is really small.
<< <i>If you can find it we'll grade the coins for free and pay for the dynamite or whatever else you need!
hrh >>
Thanks for the offer David, but I do not think you want to put dynamite in my hands
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Who said that? I don't see any such comment in this thread. The Grand Old Lady certainly still exists, and it is my understanding that it is being remodeled to house, among other things, a numismatic museum.
In an interesting bit of bureaucratic irony, the Federal government mandated that the San Francisco Mint must first incorporate something like $28 million worth of earthquake-proofing, before it can be reused for any public purpose. This for the only building that survived the 1906 earthquake!
Don't let Geraldo get anywhere near the cornerstone - - it will be empty if he's there for its opening.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>
<< <i>"I am confused, why did someone say it no longer exists?"
Who said that? I don't see any such comment in this thread. The Grand Old Lady certainly still exists, and it is my understanding that it is being remodeled to house, among other things, a numismatic museum.
In an interesting bit of bureaucratic irony, the Federal government mandated that the San Francisco Mint must first incorporate something like $28 million worth of earthquake-proofing, before it can be reused for any public purpose. This for the only building that survived the 1906 earthquake!
Now I am more confused, if it still exists then why in this thread did someone say the corner stone is lost and therefore the coins put into the corner stones are lost?
The building still stands, but nobody knows where the cornerstone is. The building suffered some exterior damage to the stonework from the heat of buildings burning around it, and the inscription may have been flaked off or covered over by subsequent repairs.
TD
Bump of an old thread.
1870-s quarter would be one of them - maybe.
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Talk about blast from the past!
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I have seen this record at the Archives-SF
Register of Warrants issued during the second quarter of 1870
Issued June 2nd
No. of Warrant 738
To whom FW Tracy
For What Coins furnished for
cornerstone New Br. Mint
Journal Folio 102
Department Coiner
49.60
Also under Petty Bills
June 2
No. 738
WF Tracy Cornerstone 49.60
I think with the help of Archivists
Back East Oliver & Kelly
Found the above mentioned warrant
The Actual warrant stated the cornerstone was to include
$20, $10, $5, $3, $2.50, $1 gold
Silver $1, 50 cent , 25 cent, dime
and half dime
Newspapers stated one of each denomination of several coins of the United States of America all struck at the San Francisco Branch Mint in the year 1870 were placed in the box
Among other items was a piece of Continental paper money dated 1776 valued at $800
All placed in a metal box
Copper box 6 inches high
8 inches wide
16 inches long
Placed within a drilled out hole in the huge block of granite cornerstone
Where's Nicholas Gage when you need him? Peace Roy
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Do you mean Nicolas Cage? Or Phineas Gage?
Historically aren't cornerstones placed above ground level and not laid with the first course on the foundation? The first course of stone/brick are normally just below ground level (unless there is a basement) and most cornerstone plaques I have see were above ground level.
Gold has a world price entirely unaffected by accounting games between the Treasury and the Fed. - Jim Rickards
Most cornerstones were placed above ground level.... However, things change and I know of two cases where the surrounding area was built up and required a re-layout of the parking area... This caused the cornerstones to then be below the surface. I have no idea if this was the case in San Francisco, but it was the case with two buildings in Seattle. Cheers, RickO
awesome thread - thanks for bumping @CaptHenway
Yes indeed-a GOOD blast!
Speaking of the Devil.
Here is Nicolas in my neighborhood (actually on the same downtown street as my office). His character's mission though in the film being shot here was seeking a serial killer rather than National Treasure.
A screenshot from the same shooting location, although inside looking out to where I was positioned taking the above shots.
For those who have seen the film, pictured is Nicolas Cage's character's detective vehicle positioned behind John Cusack's (playing the serial killer) car along with the period police cars following. The completed movie was titled "The Frozen Ground."
"Cornerstone of the Old Mint in San Francisco"
A presentation by PCNS President Jason Macario.
If memory serves me when Truman remodeled the White House they looked for the corner stone. Pictures show them digging 15-20 foot below the existing building looking for it. Things change and with the WH and mint corner stones they aren’t at ground level any longer.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Had forgotten that. Did they finally find the White House cornerstone and open it?
Wow. That was a good read. @PerryHall and whoever else wrote in the original thread.. man I was a tolder when you geezers were writing there