What exactly do I have here (mystery medal) UNIQUE ?
dcarr
Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
Without revealing too many details, I'll just say that this medal was not distributed via normal channels.
It is a US Mint John Adams President medal, bronze, 1-5/16". Nothing special about that. The US Mint currently has them for sale on their web site.
The Mint's web site states that all these medals are made in Philadelphia. And every example of this medal that I've been able to view so far concurs with that.
Except for this one, that is. It has a hand-punched "D" mint mark above the date. It appears that the dies (or hubs) for this piece were quite worn.
The letters are mushy, and there are some strange machining marks on the obverse. However, the "D" mint mark is sharp (as if freshly punched into an older die).
And to top it off, the reverse is a doubled die.
So did the Denver Mint produce a quantity of these early-on, or is this a unique test piece that escaped the Mint ?
Obverse:
Reverse:
Obverse marks:
Reverse doubled die:
Mint mark close-up:
It is a US Mint John Adams President medal, bronze, 1-5/16". Nothing special about that. The US Mint currently has them for sale on their web site.
The Mint's web site states that all these medals are made in Philadelphia. And every example of this medal that I've been able to view so far concurs with that.
Except for this one, that is. It has a hand-punched "D" mint mark above the date. It appears that the dies (or hubs) for this piece were quite worn.
The letters are mushy, and there are some strange machining marks on the obverse. However, the "D" mint mark is sharp (as if freshly punched into an older die).
And to top it off, the reverse is a doubled die.
So did the Denver Mint produce a quantity of these early-on, or is this a unique test piece that escaped the Mint ?
Obverse:
Reverse:
Obverse marks:
Reverse doubled die:
Mint mark close-up:
0
Comments
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
TD
bob
<< <i>Looks like a halo around that D. Perhaps a good soak in acetone will take care of the problem?
bob
The "D" is sitting in a slight depression on the medal, which results in the appearance of the "halo".
But this is as expected. Think about punching a "D" into a die using a hand punch and hammer.
Doing so would displace metal, causing a slight bulge on the die around the sunken "D".
This bulge then results in a shallow depression around the "D" on the struck medal.
This effect can sometimes be used to help authenticate genuine mint marks.
<< <i>Is that a seam? Any chance a "D" was punched up from a machined obverse and put back together with a machined reverse? >>
No, not a seam. That is a reasonable theory, but knowing the source of this medal, there is no chance of that scenario.
<< <i>I think you recut the whole medal with a laser and left the D off of the cutting path. >>
Actually, a laser is no good at this sort of thing. Lasers are good for cutting out shapes. They are not very good at cutting metal unless the wattage is very high. But the big limitation with lasers is that there is no way to consistently control the depth of cut.
<< <i>It was just a guess... I wasn't saying that you "controlled the cut" but that you passed over the whole thing. >>
Yes, it would be possible to run a laser over an existing coin. If that were done, the laser marks would be most prevalent on the flat parts of the coin (where the surface is perpendicular to the incoming beam). And the laser marks would be less prevalent at the edges of the devices where the surface slope is the steepest.
But that is the opposite effect to what is seen on this medal. The machining marks on this Adams medal are consistent with a reduction lathe running on a "coarse" setting.
<< <i>Is that what gives the appearance of a fingerprint on the collar??? Cheers, RickO >>
Yes, I believe those are machining marks on Adams' collar.
Note that they are somewhat concentric about the center of the medal.
The "1797" date also shows similar marks to a lesser degree.
You can buy one for $38.
<< <i>Actually, the one from the mint does not have a mint mark so now I'm a bit perplexed. >>
hence the reason for the thread.
<< <i>It's a product of the U.S.Mint. You can buy one for $38. >>
And then if you're a 1914 cent doctor you're home free.
<< <i>Stands for "Denver". If you get one at the Denver Mint gift shop, it has a "D" on it, or at least they used to. >>
Do you happen to have one ? Can you confirm that they were issued at one time with a "D" ?
The Denver Mint gift shop sells plenty of items minted in Philadelphia (they used to, anyway -
I haven't visited there in a long time).
D is very sharp while the rest of the lettering is soft struck
<< <i>Looks like some one added a D >>
I wonder who could've done that?
Hoard the keys.
Maybe impact dies with added "D" punch?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Found this one but it has no D mint mark from Philadelphia. looks like some one my have put the D on it.
That one looks like the larger 3-inch version. Those come with a matte/antiqued finish.
The 1-5/16" version that I have supposedly comes with a brilliant (UNC) finish.
And it looks to me like my example came with the brilliant finish (somewhat subdued now).
As I stated at the beginning of this thread, the origin of this medal is interesting.
I can not yet divulge the source, but I am certain that this medal was struck at the
Denver Mint from dies that had a hand-punched "D" mint mark.
Here is John QUINCY Adams with D mintmark
TD
<< <i>These small versions were indeed made at the Denver and Philadelphia mints in the 1970s. A single hub was made with a reduction lathe using one of the 3 inch medals as a model, resulting in the soft details and lathe marks transferred to the medals, which sold for 50 cents or so. These were done about the same time the Denver only mint sets with the mint medal were sold. They are not rare, worth perhaps $3 on a good day. Better quality small medals, made from newly prepared models, are now offered.
Here is John QUINCY Adams with D mintmark
Thanks. That is what I figured, but had to check anyway. I believe that mine was made after 1986, though.
I do think these Denver medals are quite a bit scarcer than the Philadelphia versions. I still want to see a
picture of a John Adams medal with "D", if anyone has one.