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jmski52's roll of toned 1964 Kennedy Half Dollars.
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
He sent me one to take a look at.
Here's the original thread for reference.
And, here are the images I shot of the coin:
There is no impairment of the luster, as is frequently seen on shake and bake coins. The coin also does not have the thin translucent film often encountered on artificially toned examples. The colors are correct, and transition smoothly. They lay on the surfaces, rather than "float". And finally, I've pulled similar examples from those old cardboard aftermarket holders.
In short, I'm 90% certain this coin is the real deal. Whether or not PCGS would find the coin "market acceptable" is anybody's guess, though.
Russ, NCNE
Here's the original thread for reference.
And, here are the images I shot of the coin:
There is no impairment of the luster, as is frequently seen on shake and bake coins. The coin also does not have the thin translucent film often encountered on artificially toned examples. The colors are correct, and transition smoothly. They lay on the surfaces, rather than "float". And finally, I've pulled similar examples from those old cardboard aftermarket holders.
In short, I'm 90% certain this coin is the real deal. Whether or not PCGS would find the coin "market acceptable" is anybody's guess, though.
Russ, NCNE
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Jmski52: If you are still feeling generous i'd like to be entered into a giveaway for one of the others!
TorinoCobra71
I knew it would happen.
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
--Christian
Russ, why do question what PCGS would do with it? Or was that just a rhetorical comment regarding inconsistency on AT/NT?
Sadly they were not...
Great coins, Jerry!
Scott
p.s. Has the same Color/progression and look as my Icon coin.
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In fact, I believe this type of toning is rather easily duplicated.
When I first laid my eyes on the coins, I felt something was amiss....
The color that I see and the toning pattern is something that is very similiar to some coins I have seen tone in a jar with matchbooks sitting in a window.... Though the manner that the color blends looks legit.....
Having some experience in searching original rolled coins of various denominations, these specimens are unlike what one would expect to see... But I didn't allow that to bias my opinion, which came to me within seconds of seeing the coins...
I believe these coins were toned by some other means and then probably rolled.
I don't believe these to be of natural toning..
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<< <i>I find the colors and the look of the coins is very very suspect, and unlike anything one would expect to find in a original roll. >>
Of course they didn't tone from storage in the roll, I stated as such in the other thread. I've never seen this type of toning from an original roll either. But, I've seen many, many similar Kennedys that I pulled from aftermarket holders. These holders were produced and sold by the millions because of JFK's popularity. It is not out of the realm of possibility that somebody accumulated a hoard of these and a roll ended up with a seller who is basically a fea market type.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>I find the colors and the look of the coins is very very suspect, and unlike anything one would expect to find in a original roll. >>
Of course they didn't tone from storage in the roll, I stated as such in the other thread. I've never seen this type of toning from an original roll either. But, I've seen many, many similar Kennedys that I pulled from aftermarket holders. These holders were produced and sold by the millions because of JFK's popularity. It is not out of the realm of possibility that somebody accumulated a hoard of these and a roll ended up with a seller who is basically a fea market type.
Russ, NCNE >>
This could very well be the case.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
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I have exchanged emails with the seller, and the only information that he could really give me is that the roll was in the basement of a relative of his, "Jerry - These have been in the basement of a relative of mine." He didn't elaborate, and I haven't pressed him for any more info, other than what else he might have (some Franklin Mint stuff, if anyone is interested.)
If anyone else has any additional thoughts about these Kennedys, I'd always be interested to log your opinion.
Regards, jmski
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>If you place coins in an environment such as cardboard holder without knowing they would tone the coins is this NT? Conversely if you place coins in a cardboard holder hoping that they will tone, is this NT? >>
Imho, and others will likely disagree, if you do what you say, and don't add excessive heat (ovens, torches, etc), or chemicals that are unnatural in the storage, and amount, of normal coin collecting (ie...onions, matchbooks, undiluted sulfur, etc), then both cases are NT for me. Even given SAEs and their silver content, I would also include that NT would be over months and years and not simply hours/days/weeks. The latter would beg AT from me.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>If you place coins in an environment such as cardboard holder without knowing they would tone the coins is this NT? Conversely if you place coins in a cardboard holder hoping that they will tone, is this NT? >>
Imho, and others will likely disagree, if you do what you say, and don't add excessive heat (ovens, torches, etc), or chemicals that are unnatural in the storage, and amount, of normal coin collecting (ie...onions, matchbooks, undiluted sulfur, etc), then both cases are NT for me. Even given SAEs and their silver content, I would also include that NT would be over months and years and not simply hours/days/weeks. The latter would beg AT from me. >>
adding to Bochi.........IMHO, if the coin goes in something that is intended to hold an actual coin (holder, flip, etc) and it tones, than great. IF a coin goes in something that is not intended to be housing a coin like a potato, baked in an oven, than AT. Also, i think the 'innocence factor' weighs in on the first point. If the coin goes in a coin book that is mass produced and generally accepted, then terrific. IF you have said coin book produced for you in China that makes the book out of sulfur and a little bit of cardboard, then you have the Barry Bonds of toned coins.
<< <i>So if you intentionally tone a coin by putting it into a cardboard holder that you know will tone it, the toning can then considered to be natural rather than artificial. I've given up on the topic of at or nt, more to the point is whether the consumer or market finds it acceptable. >>
If a coin were toned by being put in an old, wooden, coin cabinet, I would also consider it NT.
If it were toned in a Wayte Raymond album, I would consider it NT (given the other caveats I listed above).
Littleton cardboard holders, same.
Put inside an onion and place in the oven, AT.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Russ, NCNE
i have a bunch of kennedy's that look very similar to these... but i notice that when you look straight on in good light they look GREAT, LUSTER BOOMING, COLOR, ETC... but... when you look down from the top at them, even in the light... they look very dull and almost blotchy... anyone know what I am referring to? I ask because I wonder if these coins do the same thing? maybe i am just nuts!
/ed
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I just got results for the (3) that I sent in to PCGS. They are:
MS-64
MS-64
MS-64
Should I get more of them certified?
I knew it would happen.
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Hmmmm.......I see no break in the luster when viewed from any angle, on any of these coins.
Now that PCGS has rendered an opinion, I will try to get some nicer shots and post them in due time.
coindeuce - those are very attractive!
I knew it would happen.
I am not sure I implied that they were AT ever, by the way. Only that they were subject to high humidity and a very warm environment
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<< <i>I thought you'd never ask.
I just got results for the (3) that I sent in to PCGS. They are:
MS-64
MS-64
MS-64
Should I get more of them certified?
What an excellent giveaway for reaching 1838 posts
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I am not sure I implied that they were AT ever, by the way. Only that they were subject to high humidity and a very warm environment
I don't know that you implied that they were AT either, but I implied that you might have implied that they were AT
What an excellent giveaway for reaching 1838 posts
Bochiman, you already have a jmski coin collection! If it weren't for you, I'd still have my 1958 toned Roosie Roll Hoard intact! I guess I could just gather everything up and ship it to you in a big ol' crate, and save myself the trouble of doing it piecemeal, eh?
I knew it would happen.
(we were just looking at that Roosie the other night....pulled out the Roosies to fill some holes and the boy and I were looking and debating....he wants to keep it in the holder you sent it in for right now, instead of the album, so we left it in the 3-ring binder). I don't mind as he can pull that and look anytime he wants and I am not worried about him moving the slides to look at it
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>I don't know that you implied that they were AT either, but I implied that you might have implied that they were AT
There's a keen sense of humor here, and I honestly come here everyday for my medicine.
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<< <i>Approximately how much are these coins worth in 64 holders? >>
Not all of them are in MS64 holders. The grade just posted on the one with which I started this thread.
Russ, NCNE
MS-66? Russ, I'm a gonna have to have you submit all of my coins from now on. Thanks, man!
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>The grade just posted on the one with which I started this thread.
MS-66? Russ, I'm a gonna have to have you submit all of my coins from now on. Thanks, man! >>
I think you just sent me the nicest one.
Russ, NCNE
Edit to add: the above was opined b4 reading past the OP. I did not know PCGS had already given these the green light.
and they're cold.
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<< <i>In fact, I would wager w/ anybody who thinks otherwise. >>
That would be a pretty safe bet.
Russ, NCNE
Russ -
Very informative analysis.
Thank you
Rick