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guess the grade? UPDATE!!
dizzle
Posts: 1,051
well i sent the card in to bgs 2 day service and i got the email saying order has been shipped..so i then go to the bgs site to see what grade i got and sure enough the dreaded CARD RESTORED!! boy what a dissapointment. it measured up when compared to the others and the surface looked legit as well? so anyway i check the sellers other items he has sold and bought and i notice he sells graded cards but only graded by gem. so now im guessing the card probally was trimmed. i opened a claim through paypal hopefully i get all my money back. at 100% pos. feedback powerseller i wasn't expecting this. since this was one of the larger purchases i have made i'm pretty bummed.
hey all, looking for some opinions on what you think this card will grade? you think it may have a shot at a 9? sorry for the crappy pic. but it is the one from the auction. i recently bought a complete set of 86 fleer off ebay and now just waiting for it to show up.
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hey all, looking for some opinions on what you think this card will grade? you think it may have a shot at a 9? sorry for the crappy pic. but it is the one from the auction. i recently bought a complete set of 86 fleer off ebay and now just waiting for it to show up.
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Comments
Sweet Morsels Toffee and Chocolates
How much you pay for the set...if you don't mind me asking.
<< <i>trimmed - left edge >>
really. you think so? i hope not when it arrives i'll be able to tell.. i paid through paypal with my credit card so i have a little protection.
From the scan, it looks like the left edge isn't perfectly straight, and kinda curves in ever-so-slightly towards the white area, then goes back out.
If you've got a photo editing program, copy a horizontal cross section of the card up around the top border, then drag that layer down all the way to the bottom. It'll show the slight curve.
It's possible that the card is just slightly warped and showing up kinda odd in the scan, but I'd be nervous.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
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no surface flaws. The corners look great, and I don't see any white on the
corners. It looks like a solid 9 to me. The card looks squared enough unless
it's just a tad bit slanted place in your scanner. Good luck to you.
oops, thought it was in your possession.
Regardless, keep us updated. GL
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
http://sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?t=199807
Here is a blow up of a legit Flag.
A Counterfeit flag.
And the flag from the Jordan you purchased.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
I still say it's real. I found dizzle's auction and from the pictures, you really can't tell if the flag is a different shade on some of them. Here's the Wilkins:
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<< <i>Counterfeit, the fleer premier flag color is wrong. >>
Exactly what I was going to say. I really don't think that card is real. Sorry.
Here is a link to an article I did on counterfeit Jordan's.
I see Rich posted it without a link. (Thanks Rich)
SCF - Counterfiets - Jordan & More
Here are some links to beckett as well, some of the links in my original post don't work any longer.
Fleer Logo
Here is a real MJ
..and a fake (Albeit blurry) The logo isn't the only way to tell.
Each highlighted point is described in detail here:
The front of the card -
1. The Fleer Logo - The easiest thing to spot with the naked eye, though not a guarantee so look at other things as well.
A. The turn-down on the banner should be a darker orange color than the yellow part that "Premier" is printed in. There are fakes with a darker orange so use other guidelines as
well.
B. Also notice the red crown...on the real card the points are quite sharp, the word "Fleer" is more sharp and doesn't seem to have the fuzzy edges it also is a different font. The
real one is quite sharp with sharp corners on the letters vs a more "bubble-like" font. The color is also a bolder red.
2. The red and blue color on the border should have a definite separation. Notice the fake card has a "blurry" effect. Also notice how deep the color is on the real card and how bold the colors are.
3. The "Chicago" on MJ's jersey - Notice how blurry the Chicago is, it's sometimes noticed on the fakes that the dot over the letter "i" looks attached to the name as opposed tot he real card where there is a noticeable separation. it also will appear that the loop in the letter "o" is closed off
4. The Nameplate - Notice the difference in the color blue here. almost a dark blue vs. a baby blue.
You'll also notice that the name, team, position all is more "blurry" than a real card. The font looks more "bubbly" on the fake than on the real card and the corners on the letters aren't near as sharp on the counterfeit. (similar to the "Fleer Crown in #1A)
5. The black borders - This same technique, will work on all but the most sophisticated counterfeits. If you have a loupe/magnifying glass, take a look at the black printed lines. In printing, ink is laid on a plate and then put onto the stock, it is not "printed in dots" like most consumer printers do it. (dot-matrix/bubble-jet).
What you will notice under magnification (see the beckett article for a good example of this) is that the black line is not a solid black line, but rather a bunch of small black dots put together to make line. If it's not solid, it's a print and therefore, it's a fake. A 100% dead giveaway.
On to the back of the card - just in case you're still not convinced it's real or fake.
6. The Bulls Eyes-On the real card, you can see the separation between red and white..the bulls eyes on a genuine card, will be "open". You may need a loupe to see it definitively, but there should be a white pupil in the logo.
7. The back coloring - notice how pink the back is on the real card, vs a more faded pink, almost peach color on the counterfeit. This is true on the top half as well. bold red vs. faded almost pink color.
8. The copyright (C) and restrictred (R) trademark logos - On the real card, the (R) and (C) should stay entirely in the pink at the bottom of the card and the (C) should align with the text "1986 Fleer ..." On the fake, the (R) is half on the pink, half in the white border. On many fakes, not this one though, the (C) will be half off as well, similar to the (R)
9. NBA Properties Logo - You should be able to read the text "NBA" and the text around the ball with the naked eye. On the fake, it's a blur that just sorta looks like the logo, but it's not readable.
10. The Fleer Crown again - notice the font of the word fleer, you can also make out the (R) that was printed on the real card, the word fleer also stands out against the blue crown vs being a very weak presentation on the fake.
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<< <i>In Allens fake, is it just me, or does Jordan's left arm (without the ball) look ridiculously bulged? >>
saw that too. must be the bonds variation... fake and bloated
1996 Select Certified Mirror Gold Ozzie Smith
2006 Bowman Chrome Orange Refractor Chris Carpenter
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Can't wait for the next whipping boy. The Bonds stuff is getting very tiresome. BTW, speaking of Bonds, don't forget to watch the replays of those two monster HRs tonight.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
1996 Select Certified Mirror Gold Ozzie Smith
2006 Bowman Chrome Orange Refractor Chris Carpenter
<< <i>envoy, the point I was trying to make was that I don't think the guy's scanner picks up the change in color all that well. Look at the Dominique Wilkins pic from the same auction. >>
The flag can be a tough one from scans. Which is why I pointed out some of the other more obvious flaws with the fakes that don't require color matching or a loupe. Holding it in your hand makes life much easier...but good scans can easily tell the story.
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<< <i>
<< <i>envoy, the point I was trying to make was that I don't think the guy's scanner picks up the change in color all that well. Look at the Dominique Wilkins pic from the same auction. >>
The flag can be a tough one from scans. Which is why I pointed out some of the other more obvious flaws with the fakes that don't require color matching or a loupe. Holding it in your hand makes life much easier...but good scans can easily tell the story. >>
so judging by just the scan what besides the fleer logo leads you to believe. the one i purchased is a fake?
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>very good stuff, envoy98. Very helpful. Hopefully, dizzle is still alive. >>
very well alive i just posted before you ..i don't know i just don't see it?? i have owned a few jordan rc's and have seen 4 different versions of fakes as well.. and i feel its a legit card i'm aware of all the different counterfeits as well as the signs of the fakes and i don't see it in this one.
At any rate, when you get it, if you want to post higher res scans of the front and back, I can be of more help. Shoot me a pm when you get it if you'd like and I'd be happy to take a look at it.
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<< <i>It's always tough to tell from scans, especially without pics of the back. I am very leery of the one you purchased, I hope I'm wrong though. If you can get a scan of the back, that would help. Also, keep in mind that the seller can easily scan a real Jordan and send you a fake one. When I was moderating over on SCF, I can't tell you how many times that happened. Although it's more surprising how many people will just scan the fake ones and sell them. Most guys that had purchased an obvious fake, sat and argued with me that it wasn't a fake...I can tell you, I don't think I was wrong once. Yours, I'm not 100% certain, but part of that is the scan. It might be the reason the background looks grainy. As for Allens scan, I hadn't seen a fake with such a bad "23" before. That is a new one for me.
At any rate, when you get it, if you want to post higher res scans of the front and back, I can be of more help. Shoot me a pm when you get it if you'd like and I'd be happy to take a look at it. >>
ok sounds good..when it arrives i will update and post some better pics.
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than the initial scan. Flag and the word Premier are clear and looks great.
I think you can probably still pull an 8 on it. Good luck.
<< <i>Great! There is a little more noticeable white this time
than the initial scan. Flag and the word Premier are clear and looks great.
I think you can probably still pull an 8 on it. Good luck. >>
However, with a cleaner scan, the corners look just a tad softer... I say easily a 7 with a shot at an 8.
Good luck
Glad it worked out for you dizzle, although I'd be a little pissed because it looks like the seller might have photoshopped the corners to take the white out, or at least manipulated the tint of the picture to put it in a favorable light. Regardless, the centering is awesome and you got a good deal. I think it still could be an 8, but if it's a 7 it would bring hi-end 7 money because most of them are OC.
Lee
He should recoup your submission fee as well.