An interesting topic at auction lot viewing today

tradedollarnut · June 20, 2007 4:34AM

I guess the topic of conversation was a certain proof seated dollar. The unanimous concensus was that it is absolutely AT and shouldn't have been holdered.

But what do they know - they didn't bid on it.

RYK · June 20, 2007 4:35AM

Doogy · June 20, 2007 4:37AM

<< I guess the topic of conversation was a certain proof seated dollar. The unanimous concensus was that it is absolutely AT and shouldn't have been holdered.

But what do they know - they didn't bid on it.

>>

could just be sour grapes

ziggy29 · June 20, 2007 4:37AM

<< I guess the topic of conversation was a certain proof seated dollar. The unanimous concensus was that it is absolutely AT and shouldn't have been holdered.

But what do they know - they didn't bid on it.

>>

Looks like the "calling out" has resumed...in the other direction this time.

100?

Longacre · June 20, 2007 4:39AM

I might as well get a post in here.

TwoSides2aCoin · June 20, 2007 4:40AM

Well let me guess...

Nah, it's subjective

It's anyone's guess. One walks, one talks.

BigE · June 20, 2007 4:43AM

<< 

<< I guess the topic of conversation was a certain proof seated dollar. The unanimous concensus was that it is absolutely AT and shouldn't have been holdered.

But what do they know - they didn't bid on it.

>>

could just be sour grapes >>

Doogy has it! Its jealousy also.---------------------------------------BigE

richardshipp · June 20, 2007 4:44AM

+1

Popcorn............ Get your Popcorn here...........

Unknown · June 20, 2007 4:47AM

This content has been removed.

Doogy · June 20, 2007 4:49AM

<< 

<< 

<< I guess the topic of conversation was a certain proof seated dollar. The unanimous concensus was that it is absolutely AT and shouldn't have been holdered.

But what do they know - they didn't bid on it.

>>

could just be sour grapes >>

Doogy has it! Its jealousy also.---------------------------------------BigE >>

the same dealers that rely on NGC and PCGS to authenticate, grade and slab their prized coins to make them easier to sell are usually the same ones that will bash the same TPGs for holdering a coin that they missed out on. Its not like Big E's coin was graded at NGC by someone's 13 year old daughter on 'take your daughter to work day'. It was a consensus view that this coin was not AT and they found it to be PF66, by some of the best eyes in the business. Dealers buy and sell coins; most have to do this to make a living. if they missed out on a chance to buy and flip a coin for a multi-thousand profit, how many of these people have small enough egos to admit that maybe they were wrong?

VTCoins · June 20, 2007 4:49AM

Man! I thought this was finally going away!

tradedollarnut · June 20, 2007 4:50AM

It was a consensus view that this coin was not AT

That is an incorrect supposition on your part.

ziggy29 · June 20, 2007 4:51AM

<< That is an incorrect supposition on your part. >>

Are you suggesting NGC decided it was AT and slabbed it anyway? The 'consensus' referred to was from NGC, not the people who took a pass on it while viewing.

tradedollarnut · June 20, 2007 4:52AM

<< 

<< That is an incorrect supposition on your part. >>

Are you suggesting NGC decided it was AT and slabbed it anyway? The 'consensus' referred to was from NGC, not the people who took a pass on it while viewing. >>

I'm suggesting that the determining factor of whether a coin gets holdered or not is whether it's market acceptable - not whether it's naturally toned.

Doogy · June 20, 2007 4:52AM

<< It was a consensus view that this coin was not AT

That is an incorrect supposition on your part. >>

why, do you suppose one of the NGC graders said it was AT and the others told him to 'pipe down!' ?

Trinketts · June 20, 2007 4:53AM

No matter where you are in life.. If you have a $100 coin collectoin or a $10,000,000 coin collection... Those sour grapes will always taste sour.

tradedollarnut · June 20, 2007 4:56AM

<< No matter where you are in life.. If you have a $100 coin collectoin or a $10,000,000 coin collection... Those sour grapes will always taste sour. >>

Interesting. I know 3 of the dealers stating their opinion. Each of them could easily grade for one of the top TPGs but they don't want the pay cut. It's a cop out to call it sour grapes ... they don't give a crap if they missed out on a few thousand dollar profit. They DO care if the TPGs are holdering AT coins, however.

Cladiator · June 20, 2007 4:57AM

<< the TPGs are holdering AT coins >>

Nothing new and no surprise.

Doogy · June 20, 2007 4:57AM

<< 

<< 

<< That is an incorrect supposition on your part. >>

Are you suggesting NGC decided it was AT and slabbed it anyway? The 'consensus' referred to was from NGC, not the people who took a pass on it while viewing. >>

I'm suggesting that the determining factor of whether a coin gets holdered or not is whether it's market acceptable - not whether it's naturally toned. >>

i'd say that the 'big two', PCGS and NGC are starting to do much less 'market acceptable' on toning (with regards to higher dollar US classics). Their reputation, and their buy-back guarantee is on the line. suppose a coin is AT'd and turns some nasty, nasty black after a short while. did it benefit the TPG to slab that as being market acceptable when they had a good idea it was AT, only to have to buy it back and risk their reputation? we all know that when a AT (high-dollar classic) coin makes it into a holder, it becomes news here and ATS. that can't be the kinda' press and discussion they enjoy hearing about their work

tradedollarnut · June 20, 2007 4:59AM

Uh, huh. The services net grade AT all the time. If they're not sure they holder it at a lower level. A lot of 'nice coins' for the grade are AT.

beartracks42 · June 20, 2007 4:59AM

<< could just be sour grapes >>

Also could be EGO flare-up.

wondercoin · June 20, 2007 5:03AM

let this be a lesson to BigE and everyone else... and a lesson I learned as well a while back....

AS A GENERAL RULE, DO NOT REVEAL YOUR WILD AND SUPER (AND SURPRISINGLY HIGH) GRADED COINS - when it comes time to sell, the world will be focusing on your (possible) mistakenly graded coins and your price realized might be GREATLY AFFECTED by everyone laying off the coin (or telling others to do so, which they may be doing for good reason).

Wondercoin

P.S. There are exceptions to the rule - especially mechanical errors which should be revealed and fixed

ziggy29 · June 20, 2007 5:03AM

Where's that "beating a dead horse" icon?

DeusExMachina · June 20, 2007 5:07AM

<<

>>

I agree. Can we put this topic to bed, please?

BigE · June 20, 2007 5:08AM

<< let this be a lesson to BigE and everyone else... and a lesson I learned as well a while back....

NEVER REVEAL YOUR WILD AND SUPER (AND SURPRISINGLY HIGH) GRADED COINS - when it comes time to sell, the world will be focusing on your (possible) mistakenly graded coins and your price realized might be GREATLY AFFECTED by everyone laying off the coin (or telling others to do so, which they may be doing for good reason).

Wondercoin >>

Excuse me for not caring what this coin sells for or who remembers it. I am a COLLECTOR, probably for longer than most dealers that post here. -------------------------BigE

wondercoin · June 20, 2007 5:12AM

Big E - see my revised post.

Also, my suggestion holds true whether you are a diehard collector or a "flippin dealer" and is intended to be useful to collectors to consider. It is just my opinion, and, you know opinions are like...

Wondercoin

stman · June 20, 2007 5:13AM

I have to wonder if any of the under-bidders are the ones bad-mouthing the coin. I also wonder if any of the experts that did not bid, just didn't, not because they thought it was AT...... but because they were worried the downside if it would slab or not. (translation profit)

And, if any of the under-bidders was one of these experts that is bad-mouthing the coin, would really care if they had got the grade BigE did?
Would they then care if it was AT?

BigE · June 20, 2007 5:17AM

Wondercoin, here is your lesson for the day. When one dealer tells another not to bid on a coin it usually causes a bidding frenzy. Guess why?-------------BigE

wondercoin · June 20, 2007 5:19AM

I wasn't speaking of a dealer telling a dealer not to bid.

But, I would enjoy reading your answer none the less.

Wondercoin

BigE · June 20, 2007 5:20AM

----------BigE

MacCrimmon · June 20, 2007 5:21AM

<< I have to wonder if any of the under-bidders are the ones bad-mouthing the coin. I also wonder if any of the experts that did not bid, just didn't, not because they thought it was AT...... but because they were worried the downside if it would slab or not. (translation profit)

And, if any of the under-bidders was one of these experts that is bad-mouthing the coin, would really care if they had got the grade BigE did?
Would they then care if it was AT? >>

Uh-oh!! Is this another case of 14-S Indian bad-mouthing™??

Hey, did that "varnished" Morgan proof ever get better??

Russ · June 20, 2007 5:26AM

This thread has Potential™.

Russ, NCNE

BigE · June 20, 2007 5:27AM

TDN, wasn't even at the lot viewing today, more BS

----------------BigE

RYK · June 20, 2007 5:28AM

<< This thread has Potential™.

Russ, NCNE >>

Without Laura, the Potential™ is significantly limited.

NumisOxide · June 20, 2007 5:30AM

Market acceptable AT.

stman · June 20, 2007 5:30AM

<< Hey, did that "varnished" Morgan proof ever get better?? >>

Is that the one that got the "q-tip" treatment, which if I recall correctly also got sent to NGC? Hmmm, I wonder why?

Cladiator · June 20, 2007 5:31AM

I still need to get me one of them magic felt pads.

MacCrimmon · June 20, 2007 5:39AM

<< I still need to get me one of them magic felt pads. >>

Maybe NGC has a Majick AT Felt™......

Hey, I hear China is working on a plastic Crossover Felt™.

Russ · June 20, 2007 5:50AM

<< << This thread has Potential™.

Russ, NCNE >>

Without Laura, the Potential™ is significantly limited. >>

That's true. Too many people like TDN.

Russ, NCNE

STONE · June 20, 2007 5:59AM

I'll take some popcorn. What, It's only a dollar. I'll see if TDN has one to spare

MrEureka · June 20, 2007 6:22AM

Interesting. I know 3 of the dealers stating their opinion. Each of them could easily grade for one of the top TPGs but they don't want the pay cut. It's a cop out to call it sour grapes ... they don't give a crap if they missed out on a few thousand dollar profit. They DO care if the TPGs are holdering AT coins, however.

TDN - Although some retail-oriented dealers may want the services to stop grading market acceptable AT coins, few professional auction junkies share that view. These guys would prefer looser standards and the big fat easy profits that follow.

topstuf · June 20, 2007 6:47AM

I still say BigE didn't deserve a break and should be shot and maybe he's even a WITCH !!!

and that's that!

Damn uppity lucky bastiges anyway.

Elcontador · June 20, 2007 7:34AM

"I'm suggesting that the determining factor of whether a coin gets holdered or not is whether it's market acceptable - not whether it's naturally toned." Many buyers apparently don't seem to care, but I do.

Bruce, this has been going on for awhile. I think it got kick-started a few years ago with the flood of wildly-toned Unc. CBHs. I think we're seeing it more now, however.

As I prefer toned coins, this is why I have someone who knows more than I do check out a coin before making a purchase.

roadrunner · June 20, 2007 8:27AM

I just had a crayola-looking commem come back graded as 65. I made the mistake of buying it years ago and just decided to
dump it as no one would ever touch it. It also came back AT when submitted. Imagine my surprise when it graded out as gem this past week. I would presume as Acceptably Toned (AT).

You should always consider your loved ones in possible disposition plans of one's coins. Why some collectors may intend to never sell in their lifetime, a lifetime could end tommorrow, and with your family trying to figure out what to sell and for how much. That's why I recommend that basic steps be taken to protect the $$ value of one's collection.

roadrunner

Bochiman · June 20, 2007 8:30AM

<< I guess the topic of conversation was a certain proof seated dollar. The unanimous concensus was that it is absolutely AT and shouldn't have been holdered.

But what do they know - they didn't bid on it.

>>

I am sorry to say but I think this was uncalled for in a thread of its own. At worst, it should have been posted in the other thread. At best, it does seem like sour grapes.

That said, would any of these people doing this gossip at auction lot viewing be in the market for, or bidding on, this coin, now that it is holdered, in the future? Or, are they so steadfast in their belief of the coin, that they would refuse to touch it with a 10' pole?

BigE · June 20, 2007 8:33AM

Roadrunner, maybe specify that you "crayola colored" commem goes to Toys For Tots, thats what I would do-----------------BigE

plansim · June 20, 2007 8:36AM

There's still time to bid on this!

Another Stacks Uncertified Proof Seated Dollar

lloydmincy · June 20, 2007 8:47AM

I've said it a million times if I've said it once. Even the experts are not 100% sure if a coin is AT or NT. I think though after some experience, the fancy rainbow coins like the Gobrecht 1838 for sale in Stacks, (yes, I said it) are AT. When there are 10 different rainbow color rings around the thing.

But we've battled this issue for years -

This coin world: It all comes down to one single fact, and no one wants to accept it:

MONEY/MARKETING/MONEY/MARKETING/MONEY....

BRdude · June 20, 2007 10:55AM

<< TDN - Although some retail-oriented dealers may want the services to stop grading market acceptable AT coins, few professional auction junkies share that view. These guys would prefer looser standards and the big fat easy profits that follow. >>

Here, here. Everyone loves a mistake thats in THEIR favor

DUIGUY · June 20, 2007 11:01AM

Quarter in the juke box .

Russ · June 20, 2007 11:20AM

50!

Russ, NCNE

An interesting topic at auction lot viewing today

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