<< <i>Interesting. I know 3 of the dealers stating their opinion. Each of them could easily grade for one of the top TPGs but they don't want the pay cut. It's a cop out to call it sour grapes ... they don't give a crap if they missed out on a few thousand dollar profit. They DO care if the TPGs are holdering AT coins, however. >>
Name the two dealers. I can already guess one was Laura.
"This is just garbage heresay, 20-20 after the fact armchair football. Very easy to knock something that they hardly looked at and didn't bid on because of what they might have assumed (true they could be right). But you can bet if one of them bought it and sent it in and it came back slabbed PR66 they would be putting it up for sale at North of $20K in a heart beat. What I see is a bunch of jealous armchair experts who think they know it all when they can never know it all. Like it has been told to me over and over again if graders and thusly TPG's can screw up then the so-called experts can too. We give too much credit and credance to these so-called experts. Tree listened to his gut, took the risk and won THIS time, obviously don't try this at home unless you are prepared for a negative outcome. "
<< <i>let this be a lesson to BigE and everyone else... and a lesson I learned as well a while back....
AS A GENERAL RULE, DO NOT REVEAL YOUR WILD AND SUPER (AND SURPRISINGLY HIGH) GRADED COINS - when it comes time to sell, the world will be focusing on your (possible) mistakenly graded coins and your price realized might be GREATLY AFFECTED by everyone laying off the coin (or telling others to do so, which they may be doing for good reason).
Wondercoin
P.S. There are exceptions to the rule - especially mechanical errors which should be revealed and fixed >>
You mean like the infamous NGC 63 unoriginal 1894 O ten liberty?
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
fc, please explain why you think this coin is an "overgraded gem"-------------------BigE
you are confused bige. i was not referring to your coin but the advice! typical dealer advice that surely paints the person in a less then flattering light eh?
And another thing (I always wanted to say that) I can understand the warning that has been made multiple times about bidding on a coin sight unseen blah blah....... but have to wonder if a dealer had made this coin if the AT accusations would be as public as they are. I also wonder how many under-bidders were on the floor? I also wonder why it's always have a "trusted" dealer view coins at auction for us low-life collectors.
Granted they are traveling on the circuit more than most collectors. But there are plenty of collectors I'd trust to view a coin for me. Always is said on here to have a dealer look for us. Hmmmm.
Oh, for the record (if there is one) going by the Stacks image it looks AT to me as well. I still see no reason to start threads slamming a collectors coin just to try and prove a point about bidding sight unseen. Many dealers, now that it's slabbed could probably care less what it looks like now. It's holdered and that's what matters most in this "Hobby." I would also bet had BigE walked the coin raw around a show trying to sell...... a big% of dealers would say...... Get it slabbed and come back and see me.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
What I love the most about Big E's score is that he bought a coin that he likes. The 3rd party grade and anyone elses opinion is meaningless.
It is his money and he spent as he saw fit. This reminds so much of when Etrade came about. All the brokers where bashing do it yourselfers. Only because they saw the writing on the wall there free lunch was over.
If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around. Am I still wrong?
<< <i>I guess the topic of conversation was a certain proof seated dollar. The unanimous concensus was that it is absolutely AT and shouldn't have been holdered.
But what do they know - they didn't bid on it. >>
So TDN, as you heard over the phone from Illinois as hearsay the topic of discussion at this auction was BigE's purchase of a certain proof Seated Liberty that everybody remembered as being AT at the last auction 2 months ago. Have they not seen an AT coin in the past months, or did they just want to talk about this one?. ----------------------------------BigE
Ignore the information as you please, but I thought it interesting that experienced seated dollar & seated coinage specialists agree that the coin is AT.
The reason for this thread? It's important to know that probable AT coins are still showing up in respected TPG holders. Do with the information as you wish...
<< <i>Ignore the information as you please, but I thought it interesting that experienced seated dollar & seated coinage specialists agree that the coin is AT.
The reason for this thread? It's important to know that probable AT coins are still showing up in respected TPG holders. Do with the information as you wish... >>
OK, name these "specialists". Laura was one who said " who knows, the coin might go 66"----------------------------------------BigE
<< <i>Sorry, but frankly you've been a real ass since you got your gift. I don't answer to you and I'll not respond to your baiting crap. >>
I thought it was also "baiting" to resurrect this dead topic by starting a new thread for it. >>
Happens all the time with new information. If you don't think it's important to know that coins considered AT by experts are making it into respected TPG holders, then just go on your merry way.
<< <i>Have they not seen an AT coin in the past months, or did they just want to talk about this one? >>
I can't imagine why they'd be talking about it either, the new owner has maintained such a low profile since the auction.
The Hold 'em analogy someone offered in the other thread is really very appropriate here. An internet player pushes all in against a table of seasoned pros, then spikes a two-outer at the river and doubles up. After the hand, he runs around hooting and taunting as if he made a genius play, while a pro in the same situation (assuming he'd even get into that situation) would wipe his brow, stack his chips, and keep his fool mouth shut.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>Sorry, but frankly you've been a real ass since you got your gift. I don't answer to you and I'll not respond to your baiting crap. >>
I thought it was also "baiting" to resurrect this dead topic by starting a new thread for it. >>
Happens all the time with new information. If you don't think it's important to know that coins considered AT by experts are making it into respected TPG holders, then just go on your merry way. >>
Sorry, the experts all agreed this coin was not AT. Maybe you should have your friends take a closer look at some of your own coins-----------------------BigE
Well, I have read all the threads so far on this topic and I thought I would just post my opinion as well...
I have not seen the coin in question so I cannot comment if it is AT or NT.
But I have purchased coins before that have been reviewed by forum members and have recieved opinions that the coin could be NT or AT. It seems that the final decisions are made by the graders and still then the argument will continue.......
I congratulate Big E for taking the risk(chance, shot or whatever you want to call it) on the coin. Big purchase and it worked out well for him.
That's what life is about sometimes, taking the risk. We all did it one time or another and we will probably do it again.
<< <i>To have originated this thread was particularly lame. Congrats BigE. >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If the purpose of this thread was to make the point that coins considered to be AT by some experts are still being slabbed by major TPG services, then the point is made and not much additional helpful information has followed, IMO.
<< <i>If the purpose of this thread was to make the point that coins considered to be AT by some experts are still being slabbed by major TPG services, then the point is made and not much additional helpful information has followed, IMO. >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Uh, huh. The services net grade AT all the time. If they're not sure they holder it at a lower level. A lot of 'nice coins' for the grade are AT. >>
So are you suggesting that the coin, if the toning had been original, might have been a 67 or 68?
<< <i>If you don't think it's important to know that coins considered AT by experts are making it into respected TPG holders, then just go on your merry way. >>
I'll consider the experts to be at NGC and PCGS before you or any other dealer. And don't tell me that you don't agree. I bet that you have a few coins that are in slabs.
Comments
<< <i>Interesting. I know 3 of the dealers stating their opinion. Each of them could easily grade for one of the top TPGs but they don't want the pay cut. It's a cop out to call it sour grapes ... they don't give a crap if they missed out on a few thousand dollar profit. They DO care if the TPGs are holdering AT coins, however. >>
Name the two dealers. I can already guess one was Laura.
-------------
etexmike
<< <i>let this be a lesson to BigE and everyone else... and a lesson I learned as well a while back....
AS A GENERAL RULE, DO NOT REVEAL YOUR WILD AND SUPER (AND SURPRISINGLY HIGH) GRADED COINS - when it comes time to sell, the world will be focusing on your (possible) mistakenly graded coins and your price realized might be GREATLY AFFECTED by everyone laying off the coin (or telling others to do so, which they may be doing for good reason).
Wondercoin
P.S. There are exceptions to the rule - especially mechanical errors which should be revealed and fixed >>
You mean like the infamous NGC 63 unoriginal 1894 O ten liberty?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
and people wonder why coin dealers are considered on par with used car salesmen.
so, with that being said, how do you determine which customers
to dump these overgraded gems on :-P
you are confused bige. i was not referring to your coin but the
advice! typical dealer advice that surely paints the person in a less
then flattering light eh?
Granted they are traveling on the circuit more than most collectors. But there are plenty of collectors I'd trust to view a coin for me. Always is said on here to have a dealer look for us. Hmmmm.
Oh, for the record (if there is one) going by the Stacks image it looks AT to me as well. I still see no reason to start threads slamming a collectors coin just to try and prove a point about bidding sight unseen. Many dealers, now that it's slabbed could probably care less what it looks like now. It's holdered and that's what matters most in this "Hobby." I would also bet had BigE walked the coin raw around a show trying to sell...... a big% of dealers would say...... Get it slabbed and come back and see me.
<< <i>He wouldn't really say he was there when he wasn't, would he? Nah, people at Legend always tell the truth-------------------------BigE >>
With all due respect - knock off the baiting crap. Show me a quote where I said I was there.
<< <i>
<< <i>He wouldn't really say he was there when he wasn't, would he? Nah, people at Legend always tell the truth-------------------------BigE >>
With all due respect - knock off the baiting crap. Show me a quote where I said I was there. >>
It is his money and he spent as he saw fit. This reminds so much of when Etrade came about. All the brokers where bashing do it yourselfers. Only because they saw the writing on the wall there free lunch was over.
<< <i>I guess the topic of conversation was a certain proof seated dollar. The unanimous concensus was that it is absolutely AT and shouldn't have been holdered.
But what do they know - they didn't bid on it.
So TDN, as you heard over the phone from Illinois as hearsay the topic of discussion at this auction was BigE's purchase of a certain proof Seated Liberty that everybody remembered as being AT at the last auction 2 months ago. Have they not seen an AT coin in the past months, or did they just want to talk about this one?. ----------------------------------BigE
The reason for this thread? It's important to know that probable AT coins are still showing up in respected TPG holders. Do with the information as you wish...
<< <i>Ignore the information as you please, but I thought it interesting that experienced seated dollar & seated coinage specialists agree that the coin is AT.
The reason for this thread? It's important to know that probable AT coins are still showing up in respected TPG holders. Do with the information as you wish... >>
OK, name these "specialists". Laura was one who said " who knows, the coin might go 66"----------------------------------------BigE
<< <i>Sorry, but frankly you've been a real ass since you got your gift. I don't answer to you and I'll not respond to your baiting crap. >>
I thought it was also "baiting" to resurrect this dead topic by starting a new thread for it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry, but frankly you've been a real ass since you got your gift. I don't answer to you and I'll not respond to your baiting crap. >>
I thought it was also "baiting" to resurrect this dead topic by starting a new thread for it. >>
Happens all the time with new information. If you don't think it's important to know that coins considered AT by experts are making it into respected TPG holders, then just go on your merry way.
<< <i>Have they not seen an AT coin in the past months, or did they just want to talk about this one? >>
I can't imagine why they'd be talking about it either, the new owner has maintained such a low profile since the auction.
The Hold 'em analogy someone offered in the other thread is really very appropriate here. An internet player pushes all in against a table of seasoned pros, then spikes a two-outer at the river and doubles up. After the hand, he runs around hooting and taunting as if he made a genius play, while a pro in the same situation (assuming he'd even get into that situation) would wipe his brow, stack his chips, and keep his fool mouth shut.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry, but frankly you've been a real ass since you got your gift. I don't answer to you and I'll not respond to your baiting crap. >>
I thought it was also "baiting" to resurrect this dead topic by starting a new thread for it. >>
Happens all the time with new information. If you don't think it's important to know that coins considered AT by experts are making it into respected TPG holders, then just go on your merry way. >>
Sorry, the experts all agreed this coin was not AT. Maybe you should have your friends take a closer look at some of your own coins
<< <i>Sorry, but frankly you've been a real ass since you got your gift. I don't answer to you and I'll not respond to your baiting crap. >>
First of all this was not a gift, I earned it.
Secondly, when you lie, you always have to answer for it.
Thirdly, you have been the ass since I got this coin
BigE
I have read all the threads so far on this topic and I thought I would just post my opinion as well...
I have not seen the coin in question so I cannot comment if it is AT or NT.
But I have purchased coins before that have been reviewed by forum members and have recieved opinions
that the coin could be NT or AT. It seems that the final decisions are made by the graders and still then the argument
will continue.......
I congratulate Big E for taking the risk(chance, shot or whatever you want to call it) on the coin. Big purchase and it worked out well
for him.
That's what life is about sometimes, taking the risk. We all did it one time or another and we will probably do it again.
So enjoy Big E.....................
Like I said - acting like an ass.
<< <i>To have originated this thread was particularly lame. Congrats BigE. >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
<< <i>If the purpose of this thread was to make the point that coins considered to be AT by some experts are still being slabbed by major TPG services, then the point is made and not much additional helpful information has followed, IMO. >>
I think we already knew that anyway...
<< <i>Sorry, but frankly you've been a real ass since you got your gift. I don't answer to you and I'll not respond to your baiting crap. >>
Ultralame.
Funny thing is, TDN's precious sig line coin looks way more AT than BigTree' newp. Not having seen either in hand.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
+10
<< <i>Uh, huh. The services net grade AT all the time. If they're not sure they holder it at a lower level. A lot of 'nice coins' for the grade are AT. >>
So are you suggesting that the coin, if the toning had been original, might have been a 67 or 68?
<< <i>If you don't think it's important to know that coins considered AT by experts are making it into respected TPG holders, then just go on your merry way. >>
I'll consider the experts to be at NGC and PCGS before you or any other dealer. And don't tell me that you don't agree. I bet that you have a few coins that are in slabs.
An arm rassle is in order.
I will hold the coins.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry, but frankly you've been a real ass since you got your gift. I don't answer to you and I'll not respond to your baiting crap. >>
Ultralame.
Funny thing is, TDN's precious sig line coin looks way more AT than BigTree' newp. Not having seen either in hand. >>
I was thinking the same thing.
No, you won it.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.