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Which price guide to you feel is the most unrealistic and, thus, the least useable??
keets
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Thanks for voting.
Al H.
Al H.
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The Blue Book. >>
I agree.....Also, I use the eBay price of closed auction's for a more realistic guide in pricing the Modern & some common stuff.
Of the ones I sometimes use I don't consider any to have a really high level of accuracy. You just have to develop a feel for the market you are interested in.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
Normally, a call back, anywhere from one to six weeks produces the coin at my price. Cheers, RickO
K S
It's the last thing a dealer lays down before he quotes me a price and it's the last thing I want a dealer to see in my hand if I am buying from him.
The grey sheet is insulting to me.
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
<< <i>pcgs price guide, for sure. not only is it useless, but even prices of coins relative to each other are pure gibberish. it's such an utterly, astonishingly useless compendium that i have no idea why pcgs wastes time putting it together
K S >>
I decided to be a contrarian a while back and now use a combination of Redbook and Numismedia trends for pricing circulated material for resale, while I use Redbook and PCGS trends for MS material (sometimes adjusted downward if the item I am selling is not in a PCGS holder or if I feel the PCGS trend price is too high).
I use many sources including gut instinct in pricing, really, and until and unless there is an "official" ANA priceguide, that is what I will continue to do. (Would probably continue to price as I saw fit anyway, even if there were an ANA priceguide.)
The Redbook, the source most people in this poll find the least useful so far, is the one I find the most useful.
Why is that? Well, for one thing, it is readily available in any bookstore, it is the source most likely to be a familiar one to the general public, and that general public (your basic low to middle income Joe Collector) is my most common customer in my antique mall setup.
I'll grant you that Redbook prices are often out of date the minute they're printed, and they don't flex with the market swings, but for what I deal with, Redbook is good enough.
If the Greysheet people ever revamp the thing with some sort of common sense layout, and adjust their subscription rates, they might get me back. But until then, no more Greysheet for me, thanks. Even if that means I'm on a different page than everybody else. (Which is sometimes good and sometimes bad.)
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
It can be useful to a dealer, though, if one wants to quote a rock-bottom price on generic junk one doesn't really care about one way or the other. Then, if the party is insulted, one can blame it on the Blue Book. Of course, if the party is a seasoned collector or numismatist, the fact that you would even bother quoting the Blue Book already brings your credibility down a peg.
But I would rather have somebody who is thinking of selling their collection consult the Blue Book for "average dealer buying prices" before bringing them to me for an offer. Blue Book at least can serve as a reality check to the non-numismatist who thinks he may have a treasure worth zillions of dollars. Then if you offer him more than Blue Book, you look like a stand-up guy.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
It does serve a useful purpose, but really and truly... a dealer should know just about what he or she has into a coin before selling it to me. To pull it out for a transaction isn't to say that it isn't "useable", it it just "unreal" to me. (in a shocking sense).
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Like RYK, I use auction archives most often for determining the appropriate price/value for a coin.
K S
Now that PCGS is handing out the Rare Coin Report at major shows, with its price guide, you will undoubtedly see more of these.
<< <i>had blue book been in the poll, i would of chose it. it is pure fantasy. they pcgs guide is also pure fantasy, but i see alot more fools running round w/ bluebooks then hardcopy printouts of the pcgs price guide, so the blue book would edge out the pcgs price guide as the most useless "price guide"
K S >>
Pure fantasy? How bout some facts to back your statement up?
1872 seated dollar in MS65: PCGS price guide $42,500 price realized at auction $46,000.
1836 gobrecht in PR64: PCGS price guide $58,000. Price realized at auction $50,312.
Combined price guide value $100,500. Combined price realized $98,312. Doesn't look like 'pure fantasy' to me.
Date ** denomination ** grade ** PCGS price guide ** Auction price realized
1794 $1 AU55 $450,000 $431,250
1794 $1 XF $275,000 $264,500
1878-cc T$1 MS65 $140,000 $143,750
I'm glad not all fantasies are this realistic!
yeah, starting tomorrow, i'm gonna start buying my wheat pennies based on the pcgs price guide.
BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
K S
<< <i>oh boy, you've "proved" that at least FIVE WHOLE PRICES out of 189 billion are only off by about 10%! gee the pcgs guide really must be really FOR REAL, really!!!
yeah, starting tomorrow, i'm gonna start buying my wheat pennies based on the pcgs price guide.
BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
K S >>
I can go on and on and on with realistic prices in the PCGS price guide. I'm certain you can quote a few that are out to lunch ... but your assertion that it's 'pure fantasy' is 'pure bull'.
<< <i>I can go on and on and on with realistic prices in the PCGS price guide. I'm certain you can quote a few that are out to lunch ... but your assertion that it's 'pure fantasy' is 'pure bull'. >>
1 thing's for sure - you know alot about both!
K S
1881-s $46 ms-63
are you serious? who the he11 would pay $920 for a roll of 1881-s morgans? i've bought FIVE ROLLS FOR $425 EACH in the past month FROM A DEALER
ok, how about 1921 in ms-63? $42 - basically the same as a 1881-s??? BWUAHAHAHAHA! please, show me the dealer that really thinks he's gonna sell a roll of crappy ms-63 1921 morgans for $820!
ok, let's look at just single coins, something a little rarer, 1893-s in xf-40, $11,000. well GEE WHADDYA KNOW, ebay item 180125606088 DIDN'T EVEN SELL AT A $1500 DISCOUNT!
well how about a mighty carson-city in a mighty pcgs holder, say 1890-cc in ms-64, $ 2400? that should be easy, right? look at ebay item 290125704723 sold at $1700 - only $700 or about a 30% error in the pcgs price guide, that's pretty good!
what the he11, we'll see how the boys at heritage performed, how about 1904-o in ms-65, $ 175 according to your precious price-guide. looks like http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=67054&Lot_No=24863&src=pr sold for $109.25, a miniscule 38% error.
bottom line: pcgs coins frequently don't even sell for pcgs prices. ok, your right, maybe not pure fantasy, but at least 40% fantasy.
gimmme a break.
K S
edited to fix spelling
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>are you seriously trying to compare the prices of single, slabbed dollars with raw rolls? my god man you're not helping your case. >>
the pcgs price guide is NOT for "slabbed coins", it is for PROPERLY GRADED coins. i quote from pcgs itself:
"The prices listed in the PCGS Price Guide are the average dealer asking prices for properly graded United States coins."
i can assure you that as a competent grader, the rolls i bought contained AT LEAST ms-63 coins, so my examples were being gentle on the pcgs price guide. to turn the question back to you, would you seriously pay $42 for a 1921 morgan dollar properly graded as ms-63? or $46 for a 1881-S???
i'm sure tradedollarnut only functions in the rarefied area of rich coin collectors, so maybe the fantasies in the pcgs price guide works for him, but for the typical collector of normal means, there are MUCH better price guides available.
<< <i>Man, there sure is a lot of bitterness in this hobby. Why do people want to make this a fight ? >>
i disagree. i think there's alot of bitterness in the coin BUSINESS..... but the HOBBY is very kind.
K S
I'm certain there are prices that are out to lunch in the guide, just like I'm certain there are prices that are spot on. But I know how much work goes into the guide and calling it a complete fantasy is beneath even the dorkster.
To compare raw coins prices realized on ebay to the guide is indeed living in a fantasy world.
<< <i>Man, there sure is a lot of bitterness in this hobby. Why do people want to make this a fight ? >>
The Litesiders get fractious at times, and need an occasional flame war to stoke their thirst for blood. Over on the Darkside, we're far more civilized.
(LordM runs for the nearest fire exit)
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
<< <i>I'm certain there are prices that are out to lunch in the guide, just like I'm certain there are prices that are spot on. But I know how much work goes into the guide and calling it a complete fantasy is beneath even the dorkster. >>
hey tradedollarnut, i agree w/you, & i owned up to my mistake (read above). i said that ok maybe not PURE fantasy, more like 40% fantasy
strangely enough - & i say this just for curiousity sake, many times, the "ngc numismedia" prices on heritage are more correct for pcgs coins then the "pcgs priceguide". take a look at heritage, i'm sure you will see many examples where this is true.
<< <i>To compare raw coins prices realized on ebay to the guide is indeed living in a fantasy world. >>
the ebay coins were PCGS SLABBED coins, NOT raw. i was careful to use ONLY PCGS examples to disprove their own price guide.
K S
I've never known of Teletrade's until now.
AND
Blue Book shouldn't even be published since the values are so out of line.
Putting the gratuitous insult aside, I think it's true that the PCGS price guide might be more accurate at the upper end simply because it's easier to track prices realized at auction.
<< <i>-- "i'm sure tradedollarnut only functions in the rarefied area of rich coin collectors, so maybe the fantasies in the pcgs price guide works for him, but for the typical collector of normal means, there are MUCH better price guides available." --
Putting the gratuitous insult aside, I think it's true that the PCGS price guide might be more accurate at the upper end simply because it's easier to track prices realized at auction. >>
I agree with this premise.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>ok, let's take some very simple examples of boring morgans.
1881-s $46 ms-63
are you serious? who the he11 would pay $920 for a roll of 1881-s morgans? i've bought FIVE ROLLS FOR $425 EACH in the past month FROM A DEALER >>
If you think a "BU roll" of Morgans in any way consists of 20 MS63 coins, you need to get around more.
<< <i>
<< <i>ok, let's take some very simple examples of boring morgans.
1881-s $46 ms-63
are you serious? who the he11 would pay $920 for a roll of 1881-s morgans? i've bought FIVE ROLLS FOR $425 EACH in the past month FROM A DEALER >>
If you think a "BU roll" of Morgans in any way consists of 20 MS63 coins, you need to get around more. >>
no, actually all you have to do is look at the coins.
K S
To see if PCGS's prices were really that out of whack, I did a quick search of auction results for similar items and found the following:
1977 Ike dollar MS66:
auction: $340
PCGS website: $335
1977-D Ike dollar MS67:
auction: $6,037.50
PCGS website: $6000
FWIW...
<< <i> But distress sales are a fraction of coin trades, and certainly don't prove that price guides are out of line. I have to pay 50% over greysheet for properly graded and problem-free pre 1857 copper in the VG to XF range. Most of the people who claim to get huge bargains on coins are buying problem items. >>
I you consistantly have to pay 50% over greysheet for a properly graded, problem-free coin, then it would stand to reason that the greysheet value is incorrect.
some facts to soothe the savage beast, and i said facts, not fantasy to any percent, so please pay attention:
from the PCGS online Price Guide-----The PCGS Price Guide is a guide to assist the coin buying public in determining values for all significant United States rare coins.
from the PCGS Rare Coin Market Report, June 2007, page 27-----The prices listed in the PCGS Rare Coin Market Report Price Guide are average dealer asking prices for PCGS-graded United States Coins.
for practical purposes the prices listed in the online guide can generally be taken at 60-75% for a realistic price. at least that used to be the multiplier that placed me close on many items.
some levity for Lord-almighty-Morcovan-----Question: What do you call the collector at a coin show who's carrying around a RedBook?? Answer: A sucker!!
also, Rob, i would wonder what you use for pricing Proof and Mint Sets since that is often a big buy/sell item for a smaller dealer and has a slim margin.
one complaint i hear about the GreySheet is that it's too expensive and the print is too small. these are tough to understand since the collecting community seems to want an ever increasing amount of information. so the CDN gives them that and shrinks the print to fit stuff in. of course they could always increase the print size, make the publication more pages and charge more money, right?? it seems like a lose/lose situation for them, but i have a solution. if you're a vest pocket or weekend dealer, just get the packages every couple of months. i know that's a solution for many collectors headed to a show, most likely also why it's offered.
TeleTrade is probably more useful for Modern items and for Generic items.
<< <i>-- "i'm sure tradedollarnut only functions in the rarefied area of rich coin collectors, so maybe the fantasies in the pcgs price guide works for him, but for the typical collector of normal means, there are MUCH better price guides available." --
Putting the gratuitous insult aside, I think it's true that the PCGS price guide might be more accurate at the upper end simply because it's easier to track prices realized at auction. >>
I agree, too. Without looking, I would wager that the price guide value of the 1920-S $10 in 7 is spot on.