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1917 Type 1 SL Quarter - Whizzed garbage - Paypal claim
ipmman
Posts: 565
I bought this nice looking 1917 type 1 Standing Liberty Quarter on eBay, hoping to fill a hole in my Dansco 7070:
And received this piece of whizzed garbage (large scans). You can see the crud here and there they were trying to remove especially to the left of Liberty's head:
Amazing what you can do with a photoshop program. This is a large seller, you would think they know the difference.
I filed a Paypal Claim, do you think I will win?
And received this piece of whizzed garbage (large scans). You can see the crud here and there they were trying to remove especially to the left of Liberty's head:
Amazing what you can do with a photoshop program. This is a large seller, you would think they know the difference.
I filed a Paypal Claim, do you think I will win?
0
Comments
Does the seller have a return policy?
Dave
But it shows the seller how serious you are about the situation.
Here's hoping they make it right.
The seller has no stated return policy. He has given me positive feedback, I still can give out a Neg, so I have leverage there as well. I still have to wonder how they expected to pawn this coin off to someone.
It just goes to show how easily a picture can make the same coin look drastically different. This is a good lesson for everyone.
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
<< <i>He has given me positive feedback, I still can give out a Neg, so I have leverage there as well. >>
Whatever you do, don't remind him of that... you can get booted from eBay for doing so.
<< <i> Whatever you do, don't remind him of that... you can get booted from eBay for doing so. >>
How's that? If I tell him I will give him negative if he doesn't refund me? I will...
That's right, telling the truth is against ebay rules??
Seller?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Let's see how they respond before I out them... >>
Nevermind...I found them.
Looks like your seller has sold a few of these...wonder if they sent the wrong one by mistake? Looks like your seller is in the UK....if they did send the wrong ones to people, I wonder if the other buyer even has it yet?
I also wonder if you even bothered to try to contact them to see if there was a mistake or you just jumped onto your high horse to file a claim?
Is that right, Toncha?
Anyway, I am not going to jump up and down on the seller as I don't think all the info is there and you haven't said how you approached things (unless your first thing was filing a claim.....lord knows, no one ever makes mistakes, right?)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Are you trying to OUT ME on this forum??? You must really love me a lot to spend all of that time hunting me down.
Why don't the 2 of us just find a boxing ring, or an alleyway, and settle our differences like men?
Or at least if you want to stalk someone, try to find someone more attractive than me. Sorry, you're not my type, anyway.
I warn you, find another target, because 2 can play this game. Games on for now, dude.
By the way, If you spent a few seconds looking at their scan, then mine, you will notice those markers that indicate they are the same coin. Other than that, it's my money, and my decision how to deal with the transaction.
For the more advanced, knowledgeable and serious collectors on this forum, these are issues that we like to discuss. Maybe if you occasionally spent more than $5.00 on a coin that wasn't modern crap you would need to be concerned about being ripped off by a seller like this.
Now go back to your garage, and go spraypaint a few more ASE's.
let me put this straight to you....you don't interest me enough to stalk. You are new. You are hostile. And, you are boring.
Now, that said, as someone pointed out to me in email.....where's the whizzing on the coin? Do you know what whizzing is or are you just throwing the term around?
btw...it took me less than a minute to find the seller then the auction and then your ID. I didn't know your ID was supposed to be such a secret.
Here's the auction in question
For anyone else that doesn't want someone to know their ebay ID, it may be best not to refer to ebay auction's you win, then. Very easy to find an ebay auction, especially when someone posts a map to it for you
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Yes, I started the Paypal process, to let him know I'm serious. >>
Did you bother to contact the seller first and ask about a return? That would be the right and proper thing to do.
Russ, NCNE
You remind me of someone who used to post here....its on the tip of my tounge.....
There is nothing wrong with this auction IMO with the exception of what an individual might require for a coin to be described as "high grade".
Once again we have someone that buys a raw coin on eBay with no stated return policy (and doesn't inquire about a return policy prior to the purchase) with a large pic in the auction that with some experience showed evidence of a less than "perfect" coin and the buyer wants to blame the seller.
You roll the dice, you take your chances, just don't look for someone else to blame.
Joe.
<< <i>
<< <i>Yes, I started the Paypal process, to let him know I'm serious. >>
Did you bother to contact the seller first and ask about a return? That would be the right and proper thing to do.
Russ, NCNE >>
Careful Russ, he is like BB....if you don't agree with his way, then you are against him. I have received (prior to my blocking his PMs) a few "mo-fo's", "bring it on", "meet me with boxing gloves in the alley", etc. I have to admit, it did give me a good laugh when I logged in this morning
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I bought this nice looking 1917 type 1 Standing Liberty Quarter on eBay, hoping to fill a hole in my Dansco 7070:
And received this piece of whizzed garbage (large scans). You can see the crud here and there they were trying to remove especially to the left of Liberty's head:
Amazing what you can do with a photoshop program. This is a large seller, you would think they know the difference.
I filed a Paypal Claim, do you think I will win? >>
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I forgot this part. Frankly, I don't think you will win, nor should you IMO.
Joe.
Yes, of course, I did contact the seller, and havent heard back yet. If unsatisfied, as I am in this situation where I recieve a cleaned coin that wasn't described as such in the listing, I get the Paypal claim filed right away to keep within time constraints and also to make sure they know I'm serious. That is my strategy. Whether paypal pays me remains to be seen as my strategy has always worked before, and I have usually received a refund and apology from sellers in these circumstances.
My post shows that, first of all, you do take a risk buying raw coins. Secondly, that a dealer who sells coins should divulge that a coin is cleaned, especially one as obvious as this, especially since it is not so obvious from the scan. If you recieved this coin, you should be unhappy, and would expect a refund.
Out of courtesy to the seller, who may very well make good on this, I chose not to out him. Bochi Butt, disregarded this, hunted down the auction, and outed the seller and me.
Sorry for the public scrap with Bochi Butt folks, he is anti-newbie assuming new=stupid or new=target.
He has harassed me on other threads, so I'm fed up, and I'm not laying down for him folks. You can take whatever sides you want, I don't care. Let me state that there is an anti-newbie group here, includes KIP and Bochi, and I won't put up with their %^$&!
If you read my threads, you should see, I am no dummy, I know what I know, and what I don't know, and try to be forthright about it. I can guarantee you that I add a lot more in certain areas to this forum than Bochi Butt, who doesn't add squat, other than acting as sort of the resident fingernails on a chalkboard.
Anyhow enjoy the thread until they zap it.
<< <i>Out of courtesy to the seller, who may very well make good on this, I chose not to out him. >>
Uh, the seller's name is on the image you posted.
Russ, NCNE
The hardest thing to know is what you don't know.
I disagree with your premise: that a dealer who sells coins should divulge that a coin is cleaned, especially one as obvious as this, especially since it is not so obvious from the scan. If you recieved this coin, you should be unhappy, and would expect a refund.
This coin was bought via an auction with no stated return policy. While the eBay ID is "coin-division", this does not tell me that the seller is a coin "dealer" or even knows that much about coins. IMO you are not entitled to a refund. Everything was in the auction and you received the coin pictured. That you disagree with the quality of the coin is not generally a reason that PayPal will require the seller to refund your money.
It's eBay, it's an auction and not an approval service. Ask ALL questions BEFORE bidding. If in doubt, don't bid. Yes, you may miss some "steals" this way, but many would avoid the experience you have just described. In fact, there are many past threads that you can read on this Forum that describe exactly this same mistake of how NOT to buy on eBay.
Maybe a thread should be locked at the top for newbies to read to try to prevent others from making this same mistake.
Joe.
On the large pics of the coin you received I see no wizzing marks, I do see what looks like tid bits on her knee that may be from a rusty die???
AL
<< <i> Uh, the seller's name is on the image you posted.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ,
I must admit there are quite a few more dead brain cells in my head than live ones....
And this is why buying from a pic is very difficult. I'm not sure how long this poster compared the two pics but there are so many identical markers that it is hard for me to believe that anyone could come to the conclusion that these are two different coins.
There is a "skill" involved in looking at pics to determine factors not readily apparent in a pic. If you are not confident that you have this "skill" I would suggest not buying raw (expensive) coins on eBay (at least not without a written return policy that allows you to return the coin for any reason which requires a careful reading of an eBay return policy).
Joe.
<< <i>
<< <i> Whatever you do, don't remind him of that... you can get booted from eBay for doing so. >>
How's that? If I tell him I will give him negative if he doesn't refund me? I will...
That's right, telling the truth is against ebay rules?? >>
This is a prime example of what Ebay considers to be "feedback extortion" and *WILL* get you booted from Ebay. You cannot threaten to give or withhold feedback dependent on action by the other party. The implied threat in your comment above is sufficient to be considered extortion (assuming you conveyed this to the seller).
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
Yes, no question that they are the same coin.
As a matter of course, I do not e-mail every single seller and say "is this cleaned?" I am not suggesting that the seller intentionally tried to misrepresent the coin, and certainly their feedback would indicate otherwise. I was definately disappointed in the coin, which looked like a nice AU from the scan. I paid a fair price for the coin, not a steal, by any means.
As a "hole filler" in my 7070, I try to find decent examples of the issues. I was not trying to upgrade, regrade, anything involving plastic. It was headed for cardboard.
This coin is extensively cleaned, worse than it even shows in my enlarged scan. The surfaces are ENTIRELY hairlined, every single millimeter of them. Something horrible was crusty on the coin, (PVC?) and it was poorly and harshly removed. I don't really care about what the net grade would be, I do care that the coin is really awful as a collector piece and as an example of a standing liberty quarter. The scan in the listing does not show this. I do think the seller should have noticed, and notated it in the description.
The seller sells coins, many of them. As a European seller, I know they are not as picky in Europe about cleaning, so again, I am not presuming that the seller did anything intentionally wrong. It really is a horrible coin though.
I am unhappy, and I am going to ask for my money back. Again, who wouldn't? I don't know whether Paypal would favor me in the claim, however. If I do not get a refund from the seller, I will definately give them negative feedback, again, wouldn't you?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> Whatever you do, don't remind him of that... you can get booted from eBay for doing so. >>
How's that? If I tell him I will give him negative if he doesn't refund me? I will...
That's right, telling the truth is against ebay rules?? >>
This is a prime example of what Ebay considers to be "feedback extortion" and *WILL* get you booted from Ebay. You cannot threaten to give or withhold feedback dependent on action by the other party. The implied threat in your comment above is sufficient to be considered extortion (assuming you conveyed this to the seller). >>
Extortion usually involves asking for something illegal or unlawful. Beind dissatisfied, Asking for a refund for the return of an item, and giving them negative feedback if they refuse is simply doing business on ebay as usual.
Please quote the section of any ebay rules that state otherwise...
I'm not sure if it is him or his avatar
<< <i>Sorry for the public scrap with Bochi Butt folks, he is anti-newbie assuming new=stupid or new=target.
I'm not sure if it is him or his avatar >>
Nah...neither I, nor my avatar (RIP), is anti-newbie. We likes newbies. We are just anti-stupid people. Hence ippmmmman's problem
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
You seem intent on making it your problem, well too late, it already is.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Please quote the section of any ebay rules that state otherwise... >>
I think it would be here:
eBay Feedback Extortion
What is this policy?
Threatening to leave negative or neutral feedback for another member unless the other member provides goods or services not included in the original listing is not permitted
I think in this case, he did not have a return policy, if you tell him neg if he doesn't take it back, I can see where that would be a "Service not included in the original listing".
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
I agree with you though, not to do it. I guess the point is, if it is unsatisfactory, there should be negative feedback. That upholds the integrity of the feedback system, which as it stands is pretty much a joke.
We all know that too often feedback reflects a balance, even a tug-of-war between sellers and unhappy buyers where "if you neg me I neg you". The feedback system rarely truly reflects the sellers trustworthyness, or the quality of their stuff.
In my case, he gave me positive feedback. I did have a picture, I should have looked closer at a raw coin, and there was no refund policy. Following the eBay rules, I guess I rightfully am not entitled to a refund, though MOST sellers give refunds in situations like this, and I would. If I never hear from him, it will be a neutral saying something like "Coin as pictured, but harshly cleaned, and not described as such".
Does anyone remember way back in the early ebay days when eBay was called AuctionWeb, you could just go into anyones feedback, whether you ever had a transaction with them or not, and give them multiple negatives for any reason? This happened to my wife in a beef she got in with a seller, where they each gave eachother a handful of negatives. I actually would give negatives if sellers didn't answer questions about their items. I had some live auctioneer recently who was clueless refuse to approve me because of that ancient feedback.
Thanks for the input which genuinely made me rethink the feedback thing, and saved the seller a negative. If need be, I will take my lumps on this one.
And by the way, Bochi still sucks.
<< <i>Bochiman,
Are you trying to OUT ME on this forum??? You must really love me a lot to spend all of that time hunting me down.
Why don't the 2 of us just find a boxing ring, or an alleyway, and settle our differences like men?
Or at least if you want to stalk someone, try to find someone more attractive than me. Sorry, you're not my type, anyway.
I warn you, find another target, because 2 can play this game. Games on for now, dude.
By the way, If you spent a few seconds looking at their scan, then mine, you will notice those markers that indicate they are the same coin. Other than that, it's my money, and my decision how to deal with the transaction.
For the more advanced, knowledgeable and serious collectors on this forum, these are issues that we like to discuss. Maybe if you occasionally spent more than $5.00 on a coin that wasn't modern crap you would need to be concerned about being ripped off by a seller like this.
Now go back to your garage, and go spraypaint a few more ASE's. >>
Nice post newbie.
Ken
I think there is a little picking on the newer guy here. While he may of come off rough, he was treated roughly as well and baited a bit. I would like to think the long time forum users would be more tolerant and less baiting in this type of situation. But, excluding the argument, the forum was still able to point you in the right direction on the issue and you let them know you appreciated it. So I am glad to see this got back on track after the little detour. Good luck with your coin.
Swest
edited for grammer.
<< <i>too bad...any chance for a refund? >>
I am betting...no. The seller is ignoring me, and I doubt Paypal will let me prevail. I will raise it to a claim just to dish out an equal amount of grief to the seller that he gave to me when I suffered the dissapointment of getting this coin. It does tie up that amount of money in their account.
I have heard from anonymous users that this seller will under-describe problem coins, and will ignore e-mails complaining about it after the fact, so I sense he knowingly sold it with those problems, and the ignoring of my e-mails now supports that feeling.
On the other hand, I am an experienced collector, and eBay user, and a closer look at the scan on the listing does spell trouble. I blew it, plain and simple.
Ideally, the rule is always do your homework on raw coins. Photoshop tricks can be undone. Most of the time though, who has the time to do this? I did use a snipe program, and had a bigger bid on it, so I could have done worse.
The coin looks cleaned - and it looks the same in the seller's original photos.
I can see in those photos where there may have been a gob of crap (a highly technical numismatic term) or PVC residue that was dug away, leaving damage to the left of her head. The coin is lifeless and in no way "high grade" (Oh, I suppose it might be, depending on your point of view - but not in mine).
I hope that you get your money back, and everyone is happy. Like it or not, threatening negative feedback is considered "feedback extortion", although one must put the phrase in quotes, since I doubt anyone outside of Ebay could ever press charges.
I hope that you and Boik can work things out. He's a littple prickly sometimes, but he is a pretty nice guy in general.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Just how I do it, and I've made some very good purchases.