Is this gorgeous nickel NT or AT?

Kimchee · April 26, 2007 5:56AM

This is from a completed Ebay auction. Is it NT or AT? There are six pictures of it. Thanks in advance.

Colorful nickel

Sean

basestealer · April 26, 2007 6:01AM

All of his or her coins appear AT. Some are making their way into PCGS slabs, but that doesn't mean anything, other than he's profiting more now.

ricko · April 26, 2007 6:05AM

Same seller as the much heralded ASE thread still active here..... does not look NT... displays the same color spectrum as the ASE... brilliant, rainbow colors. Cheers, RickO

ArgentumRex · April 26, 2007 6:07AM

It's so vibrant, it's literally rising up out of the slab at you.

airplanenut · April 26, 2007 6:09AM

I think it's AT, and the picture exceptionally misleading with the coin placed directly on top of a slab, making it appear to be holdered.

Cladiator · April 26, 2007 6:10AM

Maybe the seller could pop in and comment about it. He is a forum member here.

Kimchee · April 26, 2007 6:16AM

I should mention this coin was sold raw, not holdered. I'm not the buyer.

In defense of the seller he has sold legit coins too. . If a couple or a few of his coins are AT it doesn't necessarily mean they all are.

Sean

Flyfishguy · April 26, 2007 6:16AM

Board member or not, PCGS or not, this sellers coins are AT, period. The seller is good at getting them into slabs, but they are still AT.

cwazzy · April 26, 2007 6:40AM

<< I should mention this coin was sold raw, not holdered. I'm not the buyer. In defense of the seller he has sold legit coins too. . If a couple or a few of his coins are AT it doesn't necessarily mean they all are. Sean >>

I agree with Sean. Some of the coins do seem to be obvious AT but he does have some nice stuff that does not appear to be. I have a nice buffalo that I bought off of him and I love it. And no. It does not look like the Jefferson nickel or the ASE that has been posted.

Chris

Tonedbuff · April 26, 2007 7:14AM

AT....
And, taking the pic with the coin nicely centered on a slab so that it appears to be in a PCGS slab is not cool. Why would you do that, except to give the illusion that it is a PCGS encapsulated coin?

skier07 · April 26, 2007 7:22AM

Look at his ebay store. Everyone of his coins are magnificently colored. They all look very similar and they appear to be AT.
I don't care what the TPG's say, his coins are not kosher. He's good by the way, whether he's toning them or he has a partner,
he's talented and he's good at getting them slabbed. There is no way for his modern coins to tone the way they are unless
he's enhancing the toning process.

Bruce

Flyfishguy · April 26, 2007 7:26AM

<< AT....
And, taking the pic with the coin nicely centered on a slab so that it appears to be in a PCGS slab is not cool. Why would you do that, except to give the illusion that it is a PCGS encapsulated coin? >>

Good catch! I did not notice that at first. You look at it and subconsciencely you think PCGS slabbed. HAs anybody done a search on what coins he buys and then sells on ebay? That might prove interesting....

Russ · April 26, 2007 7:26AM

<< In defense of the seller he has sold legit coins too. >>

In defense of Ted Bundy, he was nice to the women he didn't kill.

Russ, NCNE

Geoman · April 26, 2007 7:35AM

the picture is exceptionally misleading with the coin placed directly on top of a slab, making it appear to be holdered......

Yes, I agree this is bordering on being unethical. There is no other reason to take a photo of a coin on top of a slab unless it is to mislead someone. Definitely "not cool" in my book and a new low for the seller.

Burks · April 26, 2007 7:36AM

<< I think it's AT, and the picture exceptionally misleading with the coin placed directly on top of a slab, making it appear to be holdered. >>

\

Nice catch on the coin being placed on top of the slab. At first I thought "Please tell me PCGS didn't slab that!". After reading your post, I gave a sigh of relief.

AT IMHO.

leothelyon · April 26, 2007 8:41AM

<< AT....
And, taking the pic with the coin nicely centered on a slab so that it appears to be in a PCGS slab is not cool. Why would you do that, except to give the illusion that it is a PCGS encapsulated coin? >>

It's common knowledge that a coin looks 10X better out of a holder. Raw coins are also easier to photograph. Do you think the coin was pictured before it got entombed? And amazingly enough, coins will tone dramatically in the right enviorment. And I might add, even while they're still in the mint set plastic the US Mint ships them in or a 2x2 cardboard coin holder that has been stored in a cardboard 2x2 box.

What gets my goad, is when you see identical toning on two coins but one gets certified while the other get BB. Haven't figured that one out yet. Oh well!

Leo

mcheath · April 26, 2007 8:48AM

>>>>>Do you think the coin was pictured before it got entombed?>>>>>>>

I believe the coin was being sold raw.

SkyMan · April 26, 2007 9:10AM

<< the picture is exceptionally misleading with the coin placed directly on top of a slab, making it appear to be holdered......

Yes, I agree this is bordering on being unethical. There is no other reason to take a photo of a coin on top of a slab unless it is to mislead someone. Definitely "not cool" in my book and a new low for the seller. >>

Particularly when the seller is a registered law enforcement official.

Zoins · April 26, 2007 9:14AM

<< the picture is exceptionally misleading with the coin placed directly on top of a slab, making it appear to be holdered...... >>

I agree that is misleading.

BECOKA · April 26, 2007 9:16AM

I would be OK if the seller did not try to mislead the customers. If the auction accurately described the coin without the slab then it is up to the consumer to decide if that is a look and price they want.

Some people like AT coins and they have that right but misleading is wrong and I will not buy from this seller because of that.

ArgentumRex · April 26, 2007 9:20AM

His photo setup is probably arranged so that a coin has to be at about slab height for a clear focus on the coin, OK??? You guys are always assuming the worst.

FatMan · April 26, 2007 9:25AM

Placing that coin on a PCGS slab crosses the sleaze line IMO. Too bad, I once thought Braddick was a good guy. His recent behavior suggests otherwise.

Oh yeah, the coin is definitely AT.

AUandAG · April 26, 2007 9:27AM

It's my opinon that this is natural toning and it happens in mints/proof sets (especially the proof). I've got several
that are those shades but just not quite as vibrant. I don't know about this sellers history but this coin is NT.
bob

oxy8890 · April 26, 2007 9:31AM

<< 

<< In defense of the seller he has sold legit coins too. >>

In defense of Ted Bundy, he was nice to the women he didn't kill.

Russ, NCNE >>

Now that's funny

oxy8890 · April 26, 2007 9:32AM

<< 

<< the picture is exceptionally misleading with the coin placed directly on top of a slab, making it appear to be holdered......

Yes, I agree this is bordering on being unethical. There is no other reason to take a photo of a coin on top of a slab unless it is to mislead someone. Definitely "not cool" in my book and a new low for the seller. >>

Particularly when the seller is a registered law enforcement official. >>

OUCH, THAT HURTS, MUST BE SD PD!

SkyMan · April 26, 2007 9:48AM

While pretty, this coin is AT to beat the band, and (while I realize this one is not slabbed) for all the kool aid drinkers out there there are a LOT of questionably toned Jeffersons in PCGS plastic (NGC too of course).

BlindedByEgo · April 26, 2007 9:58AM

"We're only in it for the money"

Extra points to the first person who names the artist (the album, not the coin

)

leothelyon · April 26, 2007 10:15AM

<< Placing that coin on a PCGS slab crosses the sleaze line IMO. Too bad, I once thought Braddick was a good guy. His recent behavior suggests otherwise.

Oh yeah, the coin is definitely AT. >>

How do you know it's AT? Have you seen this coin personally? Do you have inside information, perhaps first hand knowledge that this coin was intentially AT'ed? Or are you assuming it's AT mearly from what you can make-out from the pictures provided? I don't have much of a problem determining the strength of the strike or unwanted marks on a coin from good photography but with toning and luster, I haven't fared as well. Please educate me, I don't want to get stuck with an AT coin ever! Please help!

Leo

Myqqy · April 26, 2007 10:22AM

It's very AT. The funny thing is, I've picked up a few AT proof jeffs that look remarkably like the one in this thread. Only difference was that I paid about $5 per coin, not $85....

ABSilvercoins · April 26, 2007 10:40AM

The auction never states that the coin is NT.

So, probably, it is AT, I think

>>>>>> has to be at about slab height for a clear focus <<<<<

I respectfully disagree. That is a bit of a stretch.

ArgentumRex · April 26, 2007 12:00PM

<< "We're only in it for the money"

Extra points to the first person who names the artist (the album, not the coin

) >>

Frank Zappa...DUH!

uofa1285 · April 26, 2007 12:37PM

I don't see where the seller is claiming it to be Naturally Toned...am I missing something? Doug

ElmerFusterpuck · April 26, 2007 12:42PM

The word 'masterpiece' in his ad scares me. That word to me means handmade, a great piece of work. It's a piece of something, and that something isn't the color that's on that coin.

bushmaster8 · April 26, 2007 11:21PM

<< Board member or not, PCGS or not, this sellers coins are AT, period. The seller is good at getting them into slabs, but they are still AT. >>

That is an overgeneralization. Some of his coins are AT, but some are NT. The blue/gold warnic being an obvious NT example.

Tonedbuff · April 27, 2007 12:49AM

I don't think poorly of the seller for selling an AT coin... I don't even think the issue is purely AT versus NT. The issue is a picture that gives the clear appearance of the coin being in a holder, which is another way of making a buyer ASSUME it is NT, as PCGS generally catches AT coins (not that I want to open that can of worms). There is no reason in the world to picture a coin on a slab like this except to create that belief, and yet be able to later say "hey guys, don't question my ethics, I never said it was NT, and I just needed something to hold the coin up to get a good picture..."
Misleading and predatory in my opinion.

SkyMan · April 27, 2007 1:06AM

<< ... PCGS generally catches AT coins (not that I want to open that can of worms)... >>

PUH-LEEEEZE!!! PCGS will often slab AT coins. There are certain series where they are willing to accept all sorts of AT'ing, nickels being one of the most egregious. Here is one I bought, PCGS MS65, that I went into with my eyes WIDE open believing it to be AT. The cost was right and the coin was attractive IMO.

bushmaster8 · April 27, 2007 1:55AM

That 57 Jeff looks right to me.

Winston · April 27, 2007 2:04AM

<< 

<< ... PCGS generally catches AT coins (not that I want to open that can of worms)... >>

PUH-LEEEEZE!!! PCGS will often slab AT coins. There are certain series where they are willing to accept all sorts of AT'ing, nickels being one of the most egregious. >>

Tonedbuff · April 27, 2007 2:05AM

<< 

<< ... PCGS generally catches AT coins (not that I want to open that can of worms)... >>

PUH-LEEEEZE!!! PCGS will often slab AT coins. There are certain series where they are willing to accept all sorts of AT'ing, nickels being one of the most egregious. Here is one I bought, PCGS MS65, that I went into with my eyes WIDE open believing it to be AT. The cost was right and the coin was attractive IMO.

>>

Did I mention I was trying NOT to open that can of worms... the point was that the PCGS holder gives the coin the appearance of being legit to the potential buyer. Let's not let our desire to play PCGS or TPG bashing in regards to AT and NT get in the way here! I think we would all agree an AT coin raw sells less for an AT coin in a PCGS holder, BECAUSE the buyer has a sense of legitimacy. THAT is the point, not the FACTS, but the PERCEPTION. Okay???

And I agree with Bushmaster... yours looks pretty good. I would not assume it is an AT.

MajorDuty · April 27, 2007 2:45AM

I think the above Jeff is NT also, and quite attractive imo.

SkyMan · April 27, 2007 2:56AM

<< Did I mention I was trying NOT to open that can of worms... the point was that the PCGS holder gives the coin the appearance of being legit to the potential buyer. Let's not let our desire to play PCGS or TPG bashing in regards to AT and NT get in the way here! I think we would all agree an AT coin raw sells less for an AT coin in a PCGS holder, BECAUSE the buyer has a sense of legitimacy. THAT is the point, not the FACTS, but the PERCEPTION. Okay??? >>

OK.

Actually I was agreeing with you on the basics, which is that putting a raw coin on a slab (centered just right to make it appeared slabbed) is sleazy IMO.

FullStrike · April 27, 2007 2:59AM

Another Winner

Don't miss the Franklin

I've heard there are people who collect dried cow pies, spray paint them gold and sell them to willing buyers. It's not surprising there are idiots who will pay good money for stupidly colored coins.

Zoins · April 27, 2007 3:00AM

<< It's not surprising there are idiots who will pay good money for stupidly colored coins. >>

Or even dipped and stripped coins

coastaljerseyguy · April 27, 2007 3:40AM

After seeing this new thread after yesterday's PCI to PCGS monstrosity, from the same seller no less, I was beginning to feel very uneasy about this hobby that I thoroughly enjoy. Especially since several forum members appeared to be supporting the seller, i.e. maybe "PCI is wrong" , "its an older PCI slab when they were conservative" - well that's a classic. I was beginning to fear a big portion of the hobby was in it for the money, not sure if you could trust some of the so-called "professionals" and I was on the wrong side of the equation.

Then it hit me, there may be a bright side to all of this with so much discussion about these AT vs NT coins, but unfortuneately, some innocent folks will get hurt in the short term.

Why is anyone paying any significant premium for any toned Modern coin. The 98 ASE we all discussed yesterday was a $15-20 coin. Personally, side by side with an original white 98 ASE in MS 68 or 69, I'd take the white coin. Some folks may like the trippy neon ASE, that's your choice, but it should still be a $15-20 coin. An NT 98 ASE should also be the same price, give or take. Not pointing fingers at anyone, but sellers AT their coins knowing they can enhance their profits because part of this market will pay stupid $$ for these creations. Well, hopefully this will all change and this backlash will be the beginning. Toned Moderns, even the NT best, are not worth that much more than a white coin of similar grade, maybe 10% more. So even if NT, the ASE is worth $22.50. Ain't even worth slabbing. We need to keep getting this message out to the public. When the price falls, doctors/artists will not longer mess with coins.

I have about 400 Morgans. I personally like toned Morgans and the history of Morgans About 5 of my coins are beautifully toned. About 100 Morgans have varying degrees of rim toning that I like. Guess what, I paid little to no premium for any. About 5 Morgans are damn ugly that I got for a discount. There are some real nice monster toned Morgans out there, these are rare - maybe 1% of the market, that deserve a premium. The Battle Creeks are nice, but I see stupid money chasing these, why is anybody paying 100% + markup for these. If a regular 1887 MS 64 Morgan is worth $50, most Battle Creeks I've seen are worth $75 or less IMHO unless they fall into that 1% category.

BobaFett72 · April 27, 2007 4:13AM

a lotta ALTS making appearances lol. members who joined from 2005, 2006 with less than 20 posts?

bushmaster8 · April 27, 2007 4:28AM

We need a new forum for sure:

U.S. Coin Forum
Set Registry Forum
World and Ancient Coins Forum
Metal Detecting
Coin Swaps and Giveaways
Buy, Sell & Trade - Coins
Alt Id Forum

coastaljerseyguy · April 27, 2007 5:20AM

BoBaFett72,

Guess you're talking about me being an ALT since I'm the only 1 with < 20 posts in this thread. Not sure what this means or BushMaster reply. I dont post unless something really bugs me or its an interesting topic. I mostly read for education or lately for fun with all the bickering between posters. I have no, not ever had any other forum ID. Not even sure why anyone would want to hide their identity. You give your opinion, just like everyone else - end of story.

Is there some paranoia on this forum. Never would of thought of something like that.

BushMaster - like your avatar. Been to 7 Zappa shows, starting with the 1st NYC Halloween show in 1972 or 73 in Felt Forum.

bushmaster8 · April 27, 2007 6:58AM

CJGuy, I don't care if you are an alt or not. Alt's amuse me. And they invariably deny being an alt!

My first encounter w/FZ was in 73 or 74. He did the Dance of the Just Plain Folks at the Auditorium theater in Chicago and was promptly banned from ever performing there again.

The dance involved simulated copulation involving a mop and a mop bucket,,, quite tame compared to todays kids' dance moves! I was hooked after that and saw about 15-20 shows b4 he got sick.

edit: (didn't mean to hijack yer thread Sy)

MajorDuty · April 27, 2007 7:33AM

So those are Braddick's coins? Would be interesting to hear his input on all this.

I don't know if any posts in this thread are alts, but I find it funny that someone would feel the need to post certain opinions under a different names.

SkyMan · April 27, 2007 8:25AM

<< (didn't mean to hijack yer thread Sy) >>

It ain't mine. It's Kimchee's.

Sotty · April 27, 2007 11:06AM

$85 for an oven special.

Is this gorgeous nickel NT or AT?

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The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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