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Posts: 10,165 ✭
Boom
Posts: 10,165 ✭
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Blow torch city.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>There are so many indicators of AT that it is not worth discussing... but it beats the hell out of some of the toners I see people blowing moon money for .... and still getting AT coins... (ssshhhhhh they don't know it)...
Please list them, and also describe the exact method used to AT this coin.
Whether on not this coin is truly "AT" depends on one's definition of "AT". Because they are pure silver, ASE's tone very easily. The coin in question could very well have toned by sitting in an envelope for 3 years, or sat in a moist safe for 4 years. That is probably what PCGS presumed when they slabbed the coin.
However, a coin like that would likely not get slabbed now, as the TPGs are more cautious with "wild" toning, or are deeming such wild toning not "market acceptable" whether it is AT or NT.
If this isn't an extreme case of AT then there definitely are double standards around here!
$5 Grand for a $15 piece of bullion with color on it is justifiable? Sorry boys but something's wrong here.
I have lost faith in the security of PCGS holders or the graders at PCGS.. not sure which yet. The ONLY way I can see this not being the fualt of the slab or the grader is if somehow someone developed a delayed way to tone it. I have never seen a more blanatly AT coin in my life.
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
Well here is what it would look like. Nothing at all has been done other than keeping it in such an envelope.
There simply is no comparison.
I intend to leave it in that envelope until it obtains perfect Target or Bulls Eye toning and it will because I have done it before.
I've been around a lot of silver for many years and I have yet to see this happen "Naturally."
I posted this before realizing who this eBayer is. I personally like the man and had NO intention of flaming him OR this service.
If PCGS says this is NT and is willing to Guarantee it, I guess that's that.
The person who did that coin was truely an artist.... such beautiful colors and patterns..... should spend his time putting those colors on a canvas. (although putting them on a coin appears to pay better)
Is the coin NT? ........ ha............ha...............ha...........!
Certainly does not urge me to open up MY wallet.....
<< <i>ASE's are pure silver, so they tone differently >>
With bright fluorescence?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Mercury
<< <i>There is no way PCGS graded that coin looking like that. It had to have been toned after it was slabbed.
Mercury >>
How can you AT a coin after it's slabbed?
4/123
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Invested $216.76
Return on Investment $0.68
Found but keeping $.15
I knew it would happen.
I truly don't believe they've been juiced. Look at the slabs. I think he uses natural sunlight reflecting right off the object coin's surfaces the majority of the time, such as through an opening in the drapes or curtains.
As for mine, definitely not. The reason the background changes color is because the Reverse obviously is Whiter than the Obverse and reflected or bounced back into the camera's eye.
If I were to have a white or Gray background and shine the lights directly onto the surfaces of a White coin the background paper will appear much darker and even Black, especially if the coin is dazzling White.
<< <i>Does he live near a chemical plant? >>
or 3-Mile Island
<< <i>Well, after seeing that..
I have lost faith in the security of PCGS holders or the graders at PCGS.. not sure which yet. The ONLY way I can see this not being the fualt of the slab or the grader is if somehow someone developed a delayed way to tone it. I have never seen a more blanatly AT coin in my life. >>
Don't lose faith or any sleep over this one. I would guess that this coin was slabbed way before this AT business came up and would almost guarantee that the coin would not slab today.
<< <i>How is it that normal album toned coins often get BBd for questionable toning yet PCGS permits blatant, artificially toned stuff like this into their company slabs?
>>
See above.
The AT/NT controversy has only been really hot in the past 4 to 5 years and specifically over items toned like this one. With the exception of this coin, toning is a lot like grading in that its subjective and relative. How a coin is stored, where a coin is stored, what kind of coin is being stored and how long a coin is stored. All this adds up to different degrees of toning which may or may not appear artificial.
However, for the record, lets just say that if the toning on any piece occurs say within an hour then it would be safe to say that it is AT!
The name is LEE!
NO CHEMICALS - no dip, strip and swabbing solutions consisting of things you find around the house/ Kitchen.
I have conducted experiments and recorded the results, even leaving silver coins outdoors, exposed to the elements or other various places, between pages of books (certain type paper) inside Dansco Albums, atop the Hot Water Heater etc, etc and have come away with fairly predictable results.
I did so in order learn to detect altered coins in conjunction with the ANA Course offered for detecting Altered & Counterfeit US Coins and can spot the ATs fairly easily nowadays. I have never done any of this for profit or even waste my time & money by attempting to have such coins graded.
Dansco and certain other type albums' pages have sulphur content and if you place White, undipped coins in these they WILL eventually tone. This is quite normal and totally acceptable and takes TIME. NONE of my studies or efforts have even remotely come up with such vivid colors as in this particular fashion.
The patterns are wrong an the colors much too vivid to convince me that this was accomplished by Natural means.
Again, this is no knock against this member. Who knows, perhaps he just buys them this way! This is NOT meant as some form of bashing PCGS for coins that are still on the Market, graded before "The Epiphany."
<< <i>The OP coin was definitely not toned in an envelope over 3 years.....!
The person who did that coin was truely an artist.... such beautiful colors and patterns..... should spend his time putting those colors on a canvas. (although putting them on a coin appears to pay better)
Is the coin NT? ........ ha............ha...............ha...........! >>
That coin sold on ebay originally for $200 plus some change in a PCI slab as AT to the person currently selling that piece. I don't think the 'artist' is getting rich on it.
Maybe AT but very original in looks. I like it.
<< <i>There is no way PCGS graded that coin looking like that. It had to have been toned after it was slabbed.
Mercury >>
Yes they DID! It was slabbed about a year ago by PCGS. So they would probably now slab that coin if another was sent in to it. But it is the only one. So why aren't there more out there raw or slabbed?
Don't lie to yourself to feel "safe". The reality is it's what it is and it's a big colorful bright coin RECENTLY put into a PCGS slab. Not toned afterward the slab. Put into that PCGS looking just like it looks.
.... or a beautiful 18th century type piece in XF
.... or a semi-key date of most 19th century ceries in XF/AU
.... or any number of different things with history and REAL BEAUTY
<< <i>That looks rediculous.
Blow torch city. >>
Hey, if you can do that with a blow torch, I'll give you $1000 for it!
<< <i>Well, after seeing that..
I have lost faith in the security of PCGS holders or the graders at PCGS.. not sure which yet. The ONLY way I can see this not being the fualt of the slab or the grader is if somehow someone developed a delayed way to tone it. I have never seen a more blanatly AT coin in my life. >>
I've seen way more blatantly toned coins but all way uglier, f that coin is AT. I can't say since I've ever seen it.
But I've never seen a more beautifully toned SAE either way if that coin looks anything like it does in those pictures.
Anyone ever see this coin in person?
It's to Early for Christmas Pat..."-)
Currently Listed: Nothing
Take Care, Dave
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, after seeing that..
I have lost faith in the security of PCGS holders or the graders at PCGS.. not sure which yet. The ONLY way I can see this not being the fualt of the slab or the grader is if somehow someone developed a delayed way to tone it. I have never seen a more blanatly AT coin in my life. >>
I've seen way more blatantly toned coins but all way uglier, f that coin is AT. I can't say since I've ever seen it.
But I've never seen a more beautifully toned SAE either way if that coin looks anything like it does in those pictures.
Anyone ever see this coin in person? >>
One forum member has but he hasn't chimed into the thread yet.
<< <i>
<< <i>The OP coin was definitely not toned in an envelope over 3 years.....!
The person who did that coin was truely an artist.... such beautiful colors and patterns..... should spend his time putting those colors on a canvas. (although putting them on a coin appears to pay better)
Is the coin NT? ........ ha............ha...............ha...........! >>
That coin sold on ebay originally for $200 plus some change in a PCI slab as AT to the person currently selling that piece. I don't think the 'artist' is getting rich on it.
Maybe AT but very original in looks. I like it. >>
I wish there was a picture of that coin in the original PCI AT slab. Was it a red label slab?
Chance favors the prepared mind.
<< <i>The PCGS employee who "graded" that coin must be colorblind. That's one of the most blatant AT'd coins I have ever seen! >>
Nope, that's within acceptable standards. Looks to me as if someone put it between 2 wrinkled sheets of paper. It may have been done on purpose, but still acceptable
<< <i>
<< <i>The PCGS employee who "graded" that coin must be colorblind. That's one of the most blatant AT'd coins I have ever seen! >>
Nope, that's within acceptable standards. Looks to me as if someone put it between 2 wrinkled sheets of paper. It may have been done on purpose, but still acceptable >>
Who would buy a coin like that for $5000.00? I am surprised that someone bought it in a PCI AT slab for $200.00.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
<< <i>Ungradeable Coins
PCGS does not grade coins that are counterfeit, have been artifically toned, have had their surfaces altered, have been environmentally damaged, have been abrasively cleaned, have extremely lage scratches, or have been repaired. Some allowances are made for ultra rarities, colonials, and territorial gold coins, in which there are some instances when "net grading" is used by PCGS as a service to the numismatic community. >>
Does a 1998 MS69 ASE qualify as an ultra rarity?
<< <i>There is no way PCGS graded that coin looking like that. It had to have been toned after it was slabbed.
Mercury >>
I totally agree with this. It must have been gassed.
AT Franklin
At least the graders at PCI aren't blind....Although I do think the coin looks pretty sweet...
<< <i>
<< <i>There is no way PCGS graded that coin looking like that. It had to have been toned after it was slabbed.
Mercury >>
I totally agree with this. It must have been gassed. >>
What about the reports that the coin looked like this when it was previously sold in a PCI red label slab? If that's the case, it must have looked like that when it was submitted to PCGS.
Is there any truth to the story that the coin already looked like that when it sold for $200 in a PCI slab?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>There is no way PCGS graded that coin looking like that. It had to have been toned after it was slabbed.
Mercury >>
I totally agree with this. It must have been gassed. >>
What about the reports that the coin looked like this when it was previously sold in a PCI slab? If that's the case, it must have looked like that when it was submitted to PCGS.
Is there any truth to the store that the coin already looked like that when it sold for $200 in a PCI slab? >>
Maybe a different coin? Was there a time at PCGS when AT was not a concern and a coins would be slabbed as long as it was genuine and no physical damage?