1808 is the twenty-eight informative picture thread covering the Capped Bust Half Dollar series. Sho
cmanbb
Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
1808 my second favorite date in the CBH series
Mintage of 1,368,600 coins. It is the 10th lowest mintage of the regular 29 dates within the series.
There were 10 obverse dies, and 9 reverse dies producing 10 different varieties.
Within these varieties most are R1-R3, with the exception of the O-102 & O-110 (both R5)
The first year of this sub type to produce an overdate (1808/7 O-101, R1)
The coin pictured here is a cool O-107a (with the die cracks, not forund on the O-107)
According to Souders work (Bust Half Fever) the strike on this date is WEAK, but the strike on this PCGS AU55 is the exception, IMHO.
This first sub type produced only 2 years, the 1807 & 1808.
The 1808 is becoming more and more difficult to locate in choice AU and above condition,
and if you come across a choice XF45 and up, GRAB IT.
Mintage of 1,368,600 coins. It is the 10th lowest mintage of the regular 29 dates within the series.
There were 10 obverse dies, and 9 reverse dies producing 10 different varieties.
Within these varieties most are R1-R3, with the exception of the O-102 & O-110 (both R5)
The first year of this sub type to produce an overdate (1808/7 O-101, R1)
The coin pictured here is a cool O-107a (with the die cracks, not forund on the O-107)
According to Souders work (Bust Half Fever) the strike on this date is WEAK, but the strike on this PCGS AU55 is the exception, IMHO.
This first sub type produced only 2 years, the 1807 & 1808.
The 1808 is becoming more and more difficult to locate in choice AU and above condition,
and if you come across a choice XF45 and up, GRAB IT.
0
Comments
Here is an 1808 O-102a R2
Finding this variety in its prime state without the obverse die crack is RARE--R5+ I believe
This one utilizes Obverse 2-s2 with Reverse B-s2
Obv-There are sharp crosslines in the bottom of the L, a die crack spans the entire obverse and in later die states another crack joins below the ribbon forming a triangular die chip and another through star 8 to the coins edge.
Rev-a center dot near the junction of the shield and the left wing, on most- a broad die break joins the lower left wing to tail feathers, and a crack runs from the base of ITE to the scroll. More cracks show from the edge below the 5 to the top of UNIT and another from the edge through ICA to below the C.
That is one sweet bust half - beautiful! Thanks for sharing.
102 capped bust half dollars - 100 die marriages
BHNC #198
Thanks for starting this thread. Two in a row for you.
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Some diagnostics for 1808 O-107a R2:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower edge of dentil. Miss Liberty has an Adam’s apple. Date is well centered. On this LDS, a crack from edge at star 5 crosses head, and to stars 8 and 9. Another from under date goes left across end of bust. Another from rim goes up through “0”, and proceeds through curls, neck, and joins earlier crack.
Reverse: Four dots show in field just up from where shoulder meets shield. Two tines jut up from the scroll between “D” and “S”. Arrowheads are solidly joined. On this LDS, a crack runs through “NITED” to base of “STA”, top of scroll, and to “OF”. Another from olive stem runs left, across leaves, and to “U”. “I” centered below “T”.
Link to complete Capped Bust Half Dollar series threads Thanks to CoinAddict for providing this update thread throughout the past few months.
Obverse: Serif of 7 clearly above last 8 and inside loop of 8. Top of B unfinished. Die crack from base of date to left, joiningin star 1 through 6 and to forecurl. Another die crack can be seen from star 3 to bust, from edge to curl just above date. Another die crack can be seen from edge through 1 and into drapery. Another cracks joins stars on right side.
Reverse: Die crack from UN down to leaf. A second crack at top of ATES. ANother crack above F and along top of AMERICA to C in 50 C.
O-103
Obverse: Date well centered and slants to left. 08 slightly closer than 180. Stars large and well formed.
Reverse: AM solid at base. Two lower arrowheads joined. I centered right side of T. die cracks visable around legend.
Capped Bust Half Series
Capped Bust Half Dime Series
Capped Bust Half Series
Capped Bust Half Dime Series
That is a wonderful coin!
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pbfloyd,
Welcome to the CU Capped Bust Half Dollar series. See how your coin fits to my 1808 O-103.
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Some diagnostics for 1808 O-103 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper half of dentil. Left base of “1” is missing. Date slants left, and “08” is slightly closer than “180”.
Reverse: “AM” is joined, and scroll ends below the left side of the right upright of the “M”. Left claw of left talon is split. Two lower arrowheads are joined. “I” is centered under right side of “T”.
The Whisker Cheek Collection - Top 50 Peace VAM Registry
Landmark Buffalo Collection
Obscurum per obscurius
Capped Bust Half Series
Capped Bust Half Dime Series
Happy to you have join our Capped Bust Half Dollar series. You are contributor number 90.
You have a neat chopmarked O-104. Interesting how the tiny die line protrudes up to the right, from the top of "R". Compare your coin's features with OKbustchaser's earlier in this thread.
Obscurum per obscurius
Some diagnostics for 1808 O-102a R2:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper edge of dentil. “08” is closer than “180”. Sharp crosslines show in “L”. On this LDS, a crack goes completely from rim below “0” up to rim above front of cap. Another crack spans from below date clockwise through first five stars, forecurl, and around to below ribbon ends. A triangular die chip shows in the hair just below the lower ribbon end at its left. (Easily seen in the large obverse picture.)
Reverse: A large oval dot shows in field where left shoulder is connected to shield. A broad die break joins the lower left wing to tail feathers. Left talon is split. Crack shows from “ITE” to scroll. On this LDS, there is a crack from below “5” to top of “UNIT”, another from “ICA” to below “C”. “I” is under the crossbar of “T” at right end.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I second that!!
Welcome to the CU Capped Bust Half Dollar series.
The toning on your 1808 is wonderful.
Some diagnostics for 1808 O-104a VLDS R5 (Marriage only R2):
Obverse: Star 1 points between dentils. A diagonal die line shows on the cap, above the “R” at right. Another die line crosses ribbon ends. Date is high.
Reverse: A die line from end of olive stem curves towards right claw. “50” and “C” are low and close. “I” is centered under right side of “T”.
Note: This specimen is an unlisted VLDS of O-104a, so the following description could eventually be used to replace the Overton book description, or the state might end up being called O-104b. This happens to be one of the more important oversights in the new fourth edition by Don Parsley.
Obverse: The die has been lapped so the ends of the drapery are missing, and there is a die crack from rim, to star 6, and on to Miss Liberty’s cheek.
Reverse: A crack shows from “STATES OF AMERICA” to rim right of lowest arrowhead. Another crack shows from rim between middle pair of olive leaves, across olive leaves, through left wing, and into the eagle’s head.
This is one of the first Busties bought for my collection. I was never 100% happy with the coin because of the lighter toning and the presence of a few faint hairlines in front of the portrait. I therefore had "marked the coin" for upgrade as soon as I could.
Recently I thought I had found a buyer for this coin as well as a replacement coin. When I scanned this set piece so I could show the pictures to my potential buyer, I discovered the thin double profile at the portrait's neck.
I checked Souder's "Bust Half Fever" to see if the 1808 O-105 was listed as a die marriage known for a double profile. It was not.
The scans were then sent to Edgar Souders. He responded by telling me that this was the first and only 1808 he has seen with a double profile. He stated that any double profiled early Bustie would be quite rare.
...so now the coin is a keeper. I never did follow through with the purchase of the replacement coin.
Most of left base of the 1 is missing. 2 lower arrowheads joined.
Easy to attribute with the 2 tines protruding from the upper part of the scroll between the D and S. (May not be visable in this scan.)
This is the first use of reverse die H. The die was next used to strike O-109.
Same as the O-108 except the reverse die H as started to crack. It is now named H-s2 in the Overton/Parsley books.
The die crack can be seen around the legend at the top.
Not the prettiest Bustie but I am glad to have it. I finally found this coin last year to replace a dipped F-12 that I had had in my collection.
This coin is a keeper for me because of its provenance.
I can spot this die marriage easily because of the die crack running from the bust to star 1 and the neatly curved die crack under the M in AMERICA that arcs to the right edge of the scroll. In the later die state (O-110a) there is a die crack at Star 7.
The Peterson book mentions a diagnostic feather in the shape of a "V" to the right of the shield. Because of this coin's wear, I cannot see it.
Same as the O-110 with additional die cracks.
The neatest die crack is the awesome looking one at Star 7.
This coin has very unusual obverse toning and an absolutely gorgeous reverse.
It has been suggested to me to place the coin in a brown coin envelope. Then to place the envelope on a window ledge for a few months in order to try to even out the toning.
I view myself not as the owner of this coin, but as a Caretaker of this historical object for the next half a dozen years, or so. ...so, for now, I think I will let the coin's next Caretaker worry about the toning.
Does anybody have any comments and/or opinions?
I agree with those telling you to place this beauty into a paper coin envelope to let it tone for some time, maybe months, maybe years. I would be checking on the toning every month, and stopping the process when I think the time is right. It would be a shame to let this specimen get too dark. A quick acetone bath should be done to remove any oils prior to starting this envelope toning procedure. We don't want fingerprints on the final product.
Here is a flash dipped 1808/7 that could have been allowed to tone longer before PCGS encapsulated it. I chickened out early. The luster is strong for the grade.
Some diagnostics for 1808/7 O-101 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. “8” is cut over “7”. Top of “B” is unfinished. A crack shows starting below the date, across end of bust, through first six left stars, and to forecurl. Many other cracks normally show.
Reverse: Below stripe 6, the feathers are not joined to the shield, causing a blank space. A centering dot shows in the field left of crossbar 2. “I” is midway between “T” and “E”.
I thought somebody would be interested in seeing my 1808 O-102 Prime, R5.
Struck using obverse die 2 and reverse die B.
The quick identifier is the oval die dot at the juncture of the left wing and the shield.
Other identifiers for this die state is (1) most specimens have a die chip or break between the lower left wing and tail feathers, and (2) there is a fine die crack from the base of ITE to the scroll.
On the coin pictured the die break or chip below the left wing is quite obvious. The die crack only runs from the TE halfway to the scroll. I am not sure you will see this in the photo.
There are NO other obverse or reverse die cracks.
I have always been at odds on how to grade this coin. The coin is lightly toned, probably from a long ago very light dip. There are extremely faint hairlines in the field to the left of the portrait.
I have logged it into my collection as an EF-40.
I would welcome any opinons or comments. What are your thoughts? It is time to share. Please.
From your pictures, and your saying minor hairlines, lightly dipped, retoning, I see this coin as PCGS XF45. NGC/ANACS might even go AU50. Of course final decision can only be made with coin in hand.
Maybe others will suggest how they would grade this coin.
I forgot to mention: Darn little luster, if any.
<< <i>Re the 1808 O-102 Prime:
I forgot to mention: Darn little luster, if any. >>
So, maybe knock off 5 grading points. The detail is certainly sufficient for XF45.
The diagnostics were described by Mozin earlier.
It is followed by photos of my 1808 O-104, R2. Unfortunately somebody recently (within the last 40 years?) put a thin scratch on the obverse. Total bummer !!
Photos of the 1808 O-104a, R5:
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Photos of the 1808 O-104, R2:
Some diagnostics for 1808 O-106 R2:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper edge of dentil. Stars 5 & 6 are closer than stars 6 & 7. Date is high, and figures lean left. “1” is higher, and “18” is space wider than “808”.
Reverse: A dot lies in the field where eagle’s left shoulder meets shield. “E” in “AMERICA” is recut at lower right serif, showing at right. Arrowheads are joined. Right sides of “I” and “T” are in line.
Edit for server location.
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
Beautiful 1808 and earlier/later die states you've been posting. When this many are displayed at once, it makes these very tough coins look like you can pick them up every day - which, of course, is impossible. For those just starting their Capped Bust Half dollar collections and viewing the posts, keep in mind, IT TAKES YEARS to locate and assemble pieces like this. Just keep in mind - these people are all NUTS with the "FEVER".
Folks like Mozin, edmerlr, JRocco and others get three cheers from me for taking the time to show their collections (and love for these early Federal coins) so everyone can enjoy them. Thanks guys!
Edgar
1808/7, O-101, R1
Edgar
Edgar
Edgar
I have not seen examples of this marriage without any cracks, nor have I seen it with the break from star 9. When Edmerlr is back healthy, maybe he will join in with this question.
Nice to see you back on CU.
<< <i>1808, O-102a, R2
Edgar
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