What should I expect a dealer to pay for circulated rolls of wheats?--- UPDATED!!!

Geoman · April 15, 2007 11:44PM

I have a bunch of circulated wheat cent rolls I want to sell. These rolls are all in the teens and 20's, nothing later. All the rolls are common circulated grades, that have been put away for 25+ years. There are many "better" date rolls, but no rarer date rolls. For examples, many of the rolls (ie: 1912, 1913, 1914, 1918-D, 191-D, 1920-D, 1925-D, etc) greysheet lists prices between $10 and $28 per roll. I have a 108 rolls total.

Using greysheet prices (section for circulated good/better rolls) I come up with a total of $1,043.50 for the 108 rolls. Now I don't expect a dealer to pay full greysheet, epseically on something that is as common as wheat rolls. From what I understand, a key date coin, such as a nice VG-8 1877 Indian Head Cent, a dealer may pay only 5-10% back of greysheet as key date coins would normally sell for greysheet or higher. Similar, the typical or common coins, such as circulated wheat rolls, I can see a dealer paying maybe 20% back of greysheet. Because when he/she goes to sell these, they might not even get greysheet.

So, what would you feel is a fair offer? Should I expect 20% back of greysheet? Maybe 25% back of greysheet?

Dealers, what would you offer? Thanks!

ricko · April 15, 2007 11:54PM

Wow... please do not take this the wrong way - but you should really consider the Karass class on negotiating skills... sorry, no offense intended. Cheers, RickO

lathmach · April 15, 2007 11:58PM

I think you're going to have a real hard time selling those to a dealer at even a third of what you think they're worth.

Ray

Michigan · April 16, 2007 12:02AM

Put a few rolls up on ebay as an experiment and see how they do.

Flyfishguy · April 16, 2007 12:09AM

If you can get $1 a roll from a dealer, you'd be doing well. Try the eBay route and see what happens. We buy BUCKETS of Wheat Cents at 2 times face and sell them at 3 times face. If you want to realize more, seperate them by decade and ebay them.

commoncents05 · April 16, 2007 12:12AM

The coin shop I work at buys them at 2x Face and Wholesales them for 2.5x Face. We make a whopping half of a cent on every wheat penny.

-Paul

Geoman · April 16, 2007 12:12AM

One issue is I need to sell these fast. I would do eBay, but really need to sell them today or tomorrow. Another issue is the weight of course, trying to ship 108 rolls is costly and the package would be extremely heavy.

It sounds like I should expect more along the lines of 50% back of bid or less even? WOW! One reason for asking is the 1 local dealer in town (since I need to unload this quick) is always extremely low on his buy prices. And I would like opinions on others here what they would be willing to pay before I run to his shop this afternoon. Basically, I am trading a better price I probably could obtain for a quick sale; but don't want to get ripped off either.

Geoman · April 16, 2007 12:14AM

The coin shop I work at buys them at 2x Face....

Is this for rolls in the teens? I did sell rolls from the 30's, 40's and 50's for $1 a roll, and was okay with that. But I thought rolls in the early teens would be going for more than common 40's and 50's rolls.

thebeav · April 16, 2007 12:15AM

<< Wow... please do not take this the wrong way - but you should really consider the Karass class on negotiating skills... >>

What does this mean?

ttown · April 16, 2007 12:15AM

Why not put them on the BST borad? If you take PayPal you can get your money quick.

commoncents05 · April 16, 2007 12:22AM

<< Is this for rolls in the teens? >>

All wheat pennies (minus keys & semi-keys). Our wholesaler doesn't pay us a premium for the early ones, so we don't pay a premium for them either.

-Paul

291fifth · April 16, 2007 12:23AM

You're going to be in for a big, and not very pleasant, surprise when you hear how little you are offered. If you are lucky, and the dealer is generous, you may get two cents apiece.

mrearlygold · April 16, 2007 12:46AM

Wow, I think I was ( reluctantly ) paying 100 bucks a bag for them back in 1980 at my coin shop in NJ. ( Selling for 125-150 )

Used to pay 3 bucks a pound for foreign coins, selling for 4 bucks a pound.

Edited to add: Don't forget to factor in your shipping costs

Veep · April 16, 2007 12:49AM

There are usually a couple of ads in the back of the Coin World with dealers paying $4-5 for teens and around $3 for twenties. The rest you'll be fortunate to sell at 2-3 cents each. Look at the fine print in the ads from Upstate Coins and Arizona Coin & Jewelry.

mrpotatoheadd · April 16, 2007 1:04AM

<< One issue is I need to sell these fast. I would do eBay, but really need to sell them today or tomorrow. >>

I bought a ton of wheats like you've described a while back and tried selling them by the roll on eBay. Bidders were rarely willing to go higher than 25% to 30% back of bid, so I ended up selling the whole lot to a dealer (Covina Coin- they generally have buying ads in the Coin World classifieds). I don't remember exactly what percentage of bid I got for them, but I was more than satisfied and it was a whole lot easier selling the whole group as a lot than doing individual rolls in ones and twos. Thre was a bit of a wait to get paid- for the earlier dates, they wanted sort through the rolls to pick out (and return to me) any culls they might find.

When you get right down to it, though- if you have to sell today or tomorrow, I'd think your only option is going to be a local sale, and your choices will be limited to the number of buyers in your vicinity.

TwoSides2aCoin · April 16, 2007 1:11AM

This is a good forum.
I'll give ya five hundred for the lot

ScarsdaleCoin · April 16, 2007 1:12AM

$1.50 per roll

TwoSides2aCoin · April 16, 2007 1:16AM

<< $1.50 per roll

>>

LOL Jon, thanks ... I'll back down to a buck twenty six.

Writersblock · April 16, 2007 1:32AM

<< Is this for rolls in the teens? I did sell rolls from the 30's, 40's and 50's for $1 a roll, and was okay with that. But I thought rolls in the early teens would be going for more than common 40's and 50's rolls. >>

The thing is the dealer doesn't want to find himself paying a premium for 30's - 50's commons, and he isn't going to want to take the time to go through 108 rolls of wheats to make sure they are all teens and 20's. So to protect himself he won't pay a premium for any bulk wheats, and frankly I don't blame him

Shortgapbob · April 16, 2007 1:45AM

I know you have talked about a time factor in selling, but I thought I would let you know that Upstate Coins is paying $6.50 per roll for teens mixed dates and $3.50 per roll for 20s mixed dates. If you were able to sort individual early dates into full rolls, Arizona Coins and Jewelry is paying even more than that for solid date rolls from the teens and twenties.

Of course, these don't include any AG or cull coins.

66Tbird · April 16, 2007 1:53AM

<< I know you have talked about a time factor in selling, but I thought I would let you know that Upstate Coins is paying $6.50 per roll for teens mixed dates and $3.50 per roll for 20s mixed dates. If you were able to sort individual early dates into full rolls, Arizona Coins and Jewelry is paying even more than that for solid date rolls from the teens and twenties.

Of course, these don't include any AG or cull coins. >>

Thank you, might have to go down there and unload a dolly full.

Geoman · April 16, 2007 2:11AM

I know you have talked about a time factor in selling, but I thought I would let you know that Upstate Coins is paying $6.50 per roll for teens mixed dates and $3.50 per roll for 20s mixed dates. If you were able to sort individual early dates into full rolls, Arizona Coins and Jewelry is paying even more than that for solid date rolls from the teens and twenties.

Thanks for the info.

Maybe I forgot to mention, that these rolls are already sorted by year and mint. I spot checked several rolls and everything labeled is correct. I may have to extend my time frame.

mrpotatoheadd · April 16, 2007 2:29AM

<< Maybe I forgot to mention, that these rolls are already sorted by year and mint. I spot checked several rolls and everything labeled is correct. >>

I would imagine that anyone willing to pay a premium for earlier dates would want to verify that each roll is as marked.

Look at it this way- suppose you bought 100 rolls of wheats and paid a premium for specific dates. The rolls you bought were marked, and you didn't check to see what was in them. Next, you turned around and sold them to someone else, who then notified you that the coins in the rolls were not as marked. Somebody (either the person you bought from or the person you sold to) was lying, but which of them was it? What would you do?

You probably should have checked the rolls before you sold them, right?

TomB · April 16, 2007 2:49AM

I will have to echo the experiences of others and state that for mixed date rolls from the 1930s and later it is typical to buy them at two cents per coin. However, solid date rolls of earlier coins can get more, though not much more, and I think you will find that three cents to eight cents per coin will be the likley maximum you can get if you want to unload them quickly and as a alot to a dealer. In all the years that I had taken tables at shows I likely had five dozen folks offer these types of rolls for sale, but never had a single person ask if I had any for sale.

partagas · April 16, 2007 3:54AM

Put them on ebay! Use the strategy of the old farm sale guy.

Your best bet is to unroll all them, put them in a nice looking antique tin. Throw in a few barber coinage culls, some mercs and no date buffs. Take pictures from outerspace of the whole deal.

To really enhance the deal, add a few semi key culls to the lot.

Then a few close up shots of the a big pile of teen lincoln cents showing the dates. Have some family member sell them on ebay for you as unsearched hoard from old coin collector relative. And voila you will get your $$$$.

Afterall, the auctioneer never searched the lot, you might of but nothing untrue about the statements made in the auction.

Just some thoughts, now I personally would never do any of the above, but if you want to get anything close to real value on those then that is what you need to do.

Oh yeah and also have buyer pay actual shipping.

Geoman · April 16, 2007 7:01AM

Update.......................................

I thought I would update this thread as I just came back from visiting my local dealer, which I did sell all 108 rolls. I sold them for 50% of greysheet, or for $521.75. I was happy with this because from the opinions here, I should not have gotten as much as I did. If I figured it our correctly, I got almost $5 per roll (or 10x face value). Since I did have to unload them today, I took what I could get for them.

And I am happy with that!

Grandpacoin · April 16, 2007 7:05AM

I will give you .03 per coin....for a few rolls.

RichieURich · April 16, 2007 7:07AM

Well done, Geoman! Plus you don't have to carry them around anymore or ship them!

scooter25 · April 16, 2007 7:09AM

wow sounds like your dealer really hooked you up. sounds like I might need to get some wheaties!

Russ · April 16, 2007 9:04AM

You did very well getting that price from a dealer. Every dealer I know buys at 2c and sells at 3c regardless of years.

Russ, NCNE

DieClash · April 16, 2007 9:43AM

So what if the coins are already pre-sorted by date and MM?

TomB · April 16, 2007 9:56AM

You did well, I am happy for you.

TwoSides2aCoin · April 16, 2007 10:02AM

<< You did well, I am happy for you. >>

...'twas a very generous offer, indeed.

DieClash · April 16, 2007 10:16AM

<< 

<< You did well, I am happy for you. >>

...'twas a very generous offer, indeed. >>

Perhaps. If one has to liquidate 108 rolls of wheats in two days, then maybe. I think it stinks! The copper melt value is 'bout $0.025 per coin. Granted the Gov't. has instituted regulations to prevent the wanton melting of copper and nickel now that it costs more to mint cents and nickels than their face value.

This is why dealers get a bad name, IMO. 50% back of greysheet is 100% LESS than dealers are willing to pay for it if they trade amongst themselves. While this may be a naive view of how the coin markets are made, this is the kind of "ripoff" that pi$$es off collectors. You (the dealer) are willing to pay another dealer twice as much for the same coin among each other as you would pay for the same from a collector. How else is one to interpret this? I think it sux. Granted, I don't need to make a living buying and selling coins, but it seems to me dealers are willing to screw collectors, but not each other. Otherwise what the heck is the use of the greysheet?

I wonder how a dealer would respond if they were offered half of greysheet value for a coin?

Edited for mathematical error 50% back of greysheet is acutally 100% less than dealers are willing to pay for it if they trade amongst themselves

No offense intended, I just don't get it!

TomB · April 16, 2007 10:18AM

Truthfully, I believe most dealer-to-dealer trasactions for this lot would have had to occur at substantially below bid, also, simply because this is a market area that most dealers do not want to be in and, as such, you must entice them with a low price to consumate the transaction.

DieClash · April 16, 2007 10:21AM

<< Truthfully, I believe most dealer-to-dealer trasactions for this lot would have had to occur at substantially below bid, also, simply because this is a market area that most dealers do not want to be in and, as such, you must entice them with a low price to consumate the transaction. >>

Fair enough Tom. Makes sense. But then why is greysheet so much higher if below-greysheets it what's required to consumate the deal. I have a disconnect here. Help me connect the dots. Thanks!

Russ · April 16, 2007 10:23AM

<< Perhaps. If one has to liquidate 108 rolls of wheats in two days, then maybe. I think it stinks! >>

If you think it stinks, tell me how much you're willing to pay for wheaties. I have a few thousand I'd be happy to unload.

Russ, NCNE

DieClash · April 16, 2007 10:29AM

<< 

<< Perhaps. If one has to liquidate 108 rolls of wheats in two days, then maybe. I think it stinks! >>

If you think it stinks, tell me how much you're willing to pay for wheaties. I have a few thousand I'd be happy to unload.

Russ, NCNE >>

Me too Russ! But I paid more than an average of $0.025 per coin, so perhaps that's why I think it stinks. Also, the fact that the OP had to settle for "50% back of greysheet" I find disturbing. Fact is, I've bought collections from friends and neighbors over the years. I don't cherrypick their collections. I buy the entire collections, warts and all. I do it because it's fair. I valuate the coins at somewhere between greysheet bid/ask. Again because this is fair. When I read posts on these boards that say a collector "did very well" to realize 50% of greysheet, I think it stinks!

If greysheet is supposed to approximate the value of dealer-to-dealer transaction prices, then if a deal is done at 50% of greysheet, then either greysheet is grossly wrong or else someone is getting screwed!

If my copper wheaties are worth less than copper melt, then I am getting screwed. I don't think any silver coins EVER sell for less than melt. That's why I think is "stinks" Russ. No offense intended.

BobaFett72 · April 16, 2007 10:30AM

youll get far more money on Ebay than from a dealer
and ship em PRIORITY Flat rate. cheap, secure up to 50lbs or more; just squeeze em in the FREE boxes and tape them up tight.

TwoSides2aCoin · April 16, 2007 10:33AM

Die Clash, The seller is not getting screwed. The seller already said there were no keys. Why should the buyer (the dealer) not have some cushion for profit ? The only way the seller gets "ripped-off" is if there are a boatload of keys in the lot, which I highly doubt. But, anyway, it's a good thread in that we get to see the "thin" line of trading that goes on. I call it thin because there aren't a lot of profits in brown wheaties.

Joe

Russ · April 16, 2007 10:33AM

<< Also, the fact that the OP had to settle for "50% back of greysheet" I find disturbing. >>

I've never met a dealer who even uses Greysheet to price common date wheaties.

Russ, NCNE

DieClash · April 16, 2007 10:40AM

<< Die Clash, The seller is not getting screwed. The seller already said there were no keys. Why should the buyer (the dealer) not have some cushion for profit ? The only way the seller gets "ripped-off" is if there are a boatload of keys in the lot, which I highly doubt. But, anyway, it's a good thread in that we get to see the "thin" line of trading that goes on. I call it thin because there aren't a lot of profits in brown wheaties.

Joe >>

Good point TwoSides! I understand the logic that you Tom and Russ post here. I can deal with that. But I sitll have a disconnect among greysheet vaule, melt value and "50% back of greysheet" for this specific deal. OK. No keys. But greysheet doesn't make a distinction IMO.

How are greysheet values determined? And why doesn't copper melt come into play with cent values like silver melt values factor into silver coin deals?

mrpotatoheadd · April 16, 2007 10:40AM

<< But then why is greysheet so much higher if below-greysheets it what's required to consumate the deal. I have a disconnect here. Help me connect the dots. Thanks! >>

I would suspect the difference is that in one case, the dealer has an immediate need for the coins and in another, he doesn't.

If greysheet prices are based on dealer-to-dealer sales where the buying dealer is actively looking for the coins, a dealer who isn't in need of them and doesn't have a retail buyer ready to purchase them will have to either hold them in inventory until they sell or wholesale them to another dealer (possibly at the greysheet price, do you think?).

In the first case, the dealer's money is tied up for who knows how long, and in the second, he needs to buy at a level which will allow him to make a profit (even though that thought seems to bother some people) when selling at the wholesale price to the next dealer.

Just a thought...

DieClash · April 16, 2007 10:43AM

<< 

<< Also, the fact that the OP had to settle for "50% back of greysheet" I find disturbing. >>

I've never met a dealer who even uses Greysheet to price common date wheaties.

Russ, NCNE >>

Russ, if not greysheet than What? How is a collector like me with thousands of wheaties (like you

) supposed to valuate them? I use the Red Book, CoinWorld CoinValues, and greysheet, exclusively. If greysheet ain't cuttin' the mustard, then what other guide must I resort to? What guide do you use?

DieClash · April 16, 2007 10:46AM

<< 

<< But then why is greysheet so much higher if below-greysheets it what's required to consumate the deal. I have a disconnect here. Help me connect the dots. Thanks! >>

I would suspect the difference is that in one case, the dealer has an immediate need for the coins and in another, he doesn't.

If greysheet prices are based on dealer-to-dealer sales where the buying dealer is actively looking for the coins, a dealer who isn't in need of them and doesn't have a retail buyer ready to purchase them will have to either hold them in inventory until they sell or wholesale them to another dealer (possibly at the greysheet price, do you think?).

In the first case, the dealer's money is tied up for who knows how long, and in the second, he needs to buy at a level which will allow him to make a profit (even though that thought seems to bother some people) when selling at the wholesale price to the next dealer.

Just a thought... >>

mrpotatoheadd, thanks for this analysis. It does indeed to along way to connect the "disconnected" dots.

Russ · April 16, 2007 10:49AM

<< Russ, if not greysheet than What? How is a collector like me with thousands of wheaties (like you ) supposed to valuate them? >>

I've always just figured them at 2c to 3c each, which is what they bring in real life transactions. The problem with common date wheaties is that in the vast majority of cases they trade as bulk wholesale lots. A dealer buys them in dribs and drabs and then when he has enough he bags them up and wholesales them out.

Russ, NCNE

DieClash · April 16, 2007 10:57AM

<< 

<< Russ, if not greysheet than What? How is a collector like me with thousands of wheaties (like you ) supposed to valuate them? >>

I've always just figured them at 2c to 3c each, which is what they bring in real life transactions. The problem with common date wheaties is that in the vast majority of cases they trade as bulk wholesale lots. A dealer buys them in dribs and drabs and then when he has enough he bags them up and wholesales them out.

Russ, NCNE >>

This is why I love the CU boards. If you ask you shall recieve. Thanks Tom, Russ and mrpotatoheadd for shrinking the disconnect! I still think it sux that OP and the I paid more than 2c to 3c ea. for pre-30s wheaties and that if we sell 'em we'll realize a loss, but at least I think I get it now. Cheers

mrpotatoheadd · April 16, 2007 11:03AM

<< I still think it sux that OP and the I paid more than 2c to 3c ea. for pre-30s wheaties and that if we sell 'em we'll realize a loss... >>

I think if you can find a retail buyer who is actually looking for specific dates, you have a good chance of getting greysheet prices. Otherwise- just about every shop in the country has a couple of bins of pick 'em wheats you can look through, and the dealers are probably not especially interested in adding to their hoards. I really don't think there's any sort of conspiracy to screw people by buying wheats cheap.

DieClash · April 16, 2007 11:23AM

<< 

<< I still think it sux that OP and the I paid more than 2c to 3c ea. for pre-30s wheaties and that if we sell 'em we'll realize a loss... >>

I think if you can find a retail buyer who is actually looking for specific dates, you have a good chance of getting greysheet prices. Otherwise- just about every shop in the country has a couple of bins of pick 'em wheats you can look through, and the dealers are probably not especially interested in adding to their hoards. I really don't think there's any sort of conspiracy to screw people by buying wheats cheap.

>>

I get that now. But it doesn't necessarily make one feel any better when he has just realized that what he paid greysheet for is only worth a couple of cents

Hey TwoSides, I missed recoginizing you on the previous post with Russ Tom and mrpotatoheadd. Thanks for the education!

RedTiger · April 16, 2007 12:44PM

<< 

<< 

<< Perhaps. If one has to liquidate 108 rolls of wheats in two days, then maybe. I think it stinks! >>

If you think it stinks, tell me how much you're willing to pay for wheaties. I have a few thousand I'd be happy to unload.

Russ, NCNE >>

...

If greysheet is supposed to approximate the value of dealer-to-dealer transaction prices, then if a deal is done at 50% of greysheet, then either greysheet is grossly wrong or else someone is getting screwed!

If my copper wheaties are worth less than copper melt, then I am getting screwed. I don't think any silver coins EVER sell for less than melt. That's why I think is "stinks" Russ. No offense intended. >>

A lot of assumptions here. SIlver coins often trade for less than melt, especially 40% halves and war nickels, and foreign coins. Greysheet is not dealer-to-dealer, despite what it says. Sometimes it is, sometimes it is above, sometimes it is below. In the case cited, good luck finding any dealer paying 100% of sheet for coins worth less than 25 cents per coin. The time it takes to transfer them to 2x2s and sell them as singles, or pull them out and put them into sets and sell the sets is substantial.

Also figure that a good percentage of coins bought bulk by dealers are going to be below average, problem coins or culls. Most dealers doesn't have time to check hundreds of coins when they are worth 40 cents each retail in a 2x2. The time would not be worth the return.

50% back of bid for a dump isn't bad at all, even if the coins were raw collector coins and not wheat cent rolls. Sometimes even better date coins that must be sold quickly have to go at a steep discount. The recent thread about the 1894-o $10 gold that hammered at auction for 20% back of bid, is not unusual. That one certified gold coin is a lot easier to move than a bag of wheaties and that was an auction open to retail buyers. If that gold coin were offered raw at a local shop, 50% of bid would be an unusually high offer because of the pricing structure for one grade lower and AU coins.

It is much better for collectors to learn about the coins they are interested in, the typical wholesale and retail prices, before spending lots of money. Greysheet is one price guide, and as all guides are, it is flawed. Real coins, trading for real money, are what matters. Anyone blindly buying on sheet price alone, without knowing what real coins are trading at, may be in for a rude awakening.

mheffner2 · April 16, 2007 12:53PM

Ahhh and to quote the front page of the 4/6/07 CDN, "Fascination with early Lincoln rolls continues as collectors anticipate..."; Hope I don't get sued for quoting them. I'd have to pay the suit off in...

What should I expect a dealer to pay for circulated rolls of wheats?--- UPDATED!!!

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