<< <i>. . . It is much better for collectors to learn about the coins they are interested in, the typical wholesale and retail prices, before spending lots of money. Greysheet is one price guide, and as all guides are, it is flawed. Real coins, trading for real money, are what matters. Anyone blindly buying on sheet price alone, without knowing what real coins are trading at, may be in for a rude awakening. >>
Excellent post RedTiger! But how is anyone, let alone a collector supposed to get a clue about these prices? I rely upon the published price guides. Granted I realize that actual prices are going to fluctuate. But if dealer-to-dealer prices can be 100% off target then how in the he11 is an ordinary collector supposed to get a grip on "real coins, trading for real money"? Is there another guide out there that I am missing? And if the guides are so far off, than what are they worth? It seems to me that CDN's greysheet is THE MOST EXPENSIVE guide that I have ever purchased. You'd think it'd be more accurate.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>. . . It is much better for collectors to learn about the coins they are interested in, the typical wholesale and retail prices, before spending lots of money. Greysheet is one price guide, and as all guides are, it is flawed. Real coins, trading for real money, are what matters. Anyone blindly buying on sheet price alone, without knowing what real coins are trading at, may be in for a rude awakening. >>
Excellent post RedTiger! But how is anyone, let alone a collector supposed to get a clue about these prices? I rely upon the published price guides. Granted I realize that actual prices are going to fluctuate. But if dealer-to-dealer prices can be 100% off target then how in the he11 is an ordinary collector supposed to get a grip on "real coins, trading for real money"? Is there another guide out there that I am missing? And if the guides are so far off, than what are they worth? It seems to me that CDN's greysheet is THE MOST EXPENSIVE guide that I have ever purchased. You'd think it'd be more accurate. >>
A person talks to people. A person listens. A person keeps their ear to the ground. Again, if a person is going to spend a lot of money best to do all the above and learn before spending the big money. Buy small, sell a few coins back to another dealer, or on Ebay or on the BST section of this forum. Join a club, go to shows, ask around here. Some of the information will be wrong, or opinion based and not facts, but some of the information will be good. Just reading this thread, dozens of collectors learned what typical dealers pay for wheat cent rolls.
The greysheet is expensive and useful. However, the publishers do not buy or sell coins. The sheet is the most widely used guide, but it is still only a guide. Some coins are not listed in the sheet at all. For inexpensive low demand coins such as common wheat cents or common foreign coins that made need to be placed in 2x2s and binders to get a retail price, most dealers are going to factor in the cost of their time when they make an offer.
2 Cents each. That's what I would pay. Then I would turn around put them on eBay in one big lot and get 4 cents a piece for them. Then I would ship the whole thing in a USPS Flat Rate Priority Box for $8.10. End of story.
(go back a few posts and look at my pic of wheats)
Just the above example, if I look at greysheet I'm looking at $ 820 for the above coins, but if I'm getting 3c ea. we're talking only $21. There's definitely something wrong with this picture. If I went to any dealer here and I offer 150% of $21 for 700 pre-1920 wheats in VG-8 condition you would all laught me out of the building. BTW I think 150% over cost is a good Groos Margin.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Everyday in the shop, with the accumulations of coins that are brought in, 99% of them contain a small handful of common date Lincoln cents. Most, if not all are well worn coins from the 30's to 50's, with a few from the teens and 20's. More often than not, just low grade stuff that dealers already have a ton of. This is the stuff that we pay 1.5 - 2 cents each for. The original poster is different than most people in that he had it seperated by year. In that case I would look closer at the 09's etc. and pay him more for those coins.
Like every other dealer, these Wheats just go into buckets in the back. But here's what we do with them. Every year in May, the Boy Scouts have a Boy Scout Expo here in town. Lots of activities and fun for the family, where thousands show up. We put a handful of Wheats (abt 30 or so) in a zip lock bag and hand them out to every kid who wants one (we mark their hand so they only get one). The ones who look really interested, we give an old Whitman folder to also. We're building a collector base! I may have shared this, but one man was so impressed by this that he brought us a 90+ lb bucket of Wheats (for free) just so we could give them away!
Another point not touched on so far in this forum as far as I can tell:
Top prices as reflected in the Coin Dealer Newsletter (grey sheet) or other price guides often are mostly reflective for market makers, or the ultimate in dealer to retail customer sales. There are many other lower levels of selling coins. By this I mean that the highest prices for coins tend to involve the biggest dealers, particularly in their areas of expertise and interest and the big auctions. There are other tiers involving local collectors, dealers, small coin shows at one end; larger dealers and bigger shows in the middle, and the top tier as mentioned above. I have seen different levels of pricing in these various venues, but they are by no means always mutually exclusinve.
Thus, if I go to a local small dealer to sell common or better stuff, he can only pay what makes sense for him/her in order to make a profit. He has to either wholesale such coins to another dealer (up the food chain, so to speak), or sell on eBay or sit on such coins for possible long periods before they sell retail. If selling directly to the national market maker, one can often get an additional 10-20% more for certain coins. The examples of buy prices in the back of Coin World are a great way to see just what bigger outfits are advertising to pay for coins. I see such buy prices as much more realistic for the common stuff like wheat cents and low-grade type coins. Beginning collectors should pay close attention to such ads to make sure any investment potential they see in their purchases gets a reality check; better to learn this lesson early on and not get burned badly later.
My local small shows often feature moderate and lower cost coins selling at 10% below CDN bid or sometimes at bid. Better stuff is usually priced at ask or sometimes more. Bigger shows usually feature higher prices for the same types of coins. This actually offers opportunities for collectors/vest pocket dealers/etc. to buy stuff at the local level and sell at the bigger shows. You need to know your stuff, but you can use knowledge and your time to be part of this numismatic business and it can be profitable.
A recent case in point for me. A local coin show of about 30 dealers in the Midwest featured a 1937-D 3-leg buffalo in a first-tier PCGS holder offered to me and purchased by me for $950. The same coin I could likely sell to a national dealer for $1000 or more right now. The local dealer likely knew that as well, but he bought the coin for whatever price he paid, made a profit and didn't have to pay postage, insurance and wait for a check to arrive from a national dealer.
<< <i>A recent case in point for me. A local coin show of about 30 dealers in the Midwest featured a 1937-D 3-leg buffalo in a first-tier PCGS holder offered to me and purchased by me for $950. The same coin I could likely sell to a national dealer for $1000 or more right now. >>
If you sold that coin to a national dealer for $1050, you'd have made about 10% on the deal. Supposing the local dealer you bought from made a similar profit on his sale to you, he may have paid around $850 for the coin. The national dealer will now turn around and sell that same coin for $1250 or so, and everybody (well, not everybody, but some people, anyway) will call the local dealer scum for only paying a collector $850 for a $1250 coin.
<< <i>Another point not touched on so far in this forum as far as I can tell:
Top prices as reflected in the Coin Dealer Newsletter (grey sheet) or other price guides often are mostly reflective for market makers, or the ultimate in dealer to retail customer sales. There are many other lower levels of selling coins. By this I mean that the highest prices for coins tend to involve the biggest dealers, particularly in their areas of expertise and interest and the big auctions. There are other tiers involving local collectors, dealers, small coin shows at one end; larger dealers and bigger shows in the middle, and the top tier as mentioned above. I have seen different levels of pricing in these various venues, but they are by no means always mutually exclusinve.
Thus, if I go to a local small dealer to sell common or better stuff, he can only pay what makes sense for him/her in order to make a profit. He has to either wholesale such coins to another dealer (up the food chain, so to speak), or sell on eBay or sit on such coins for possible long periods before they sell retail. If selling directly to the national market maker, one can often get an additional 10-20% more for certain coins. The examples of buy prices in the back of Coin World are a great way to see just what bigger outfits are advertising to pay for coins. I see such buy prices as much more realistic for the common stuff like wheat cents and low-grade type coins. Beginning collectors should pay close attention to such ads to make sure any investment potential they see in their purchases gets a reality check; better to learn this lesson early on and not get burned badly later.
My local small shows often feature moderate and lower cost coins selling at 10% below CDN bid or sometimes at bid. Better stuff is usually priced at ask or sometimes more. Bigger shows usually feature higher prices for the same types of coins. This actually offers opportunities for collectors/vest pocket dealers/etc. to buy stuff at the local level and sell at the bigger shows. You need to know your stuff, but you can use knowledge and your time to be part of this numismatic business and it can be profitable.
A recent case in point for me. A local coin show of about 30 dealers in the Midwest featured a 1937-D 3-leg buffalo in a first-tier PCGS holder offered to me and purchased by me for $950. The same coin I could likely sell to a national dealer for $1000 or more right now. The local dealer likely knew that as well, but he bought the coin for whatever price he paid, made a profit and didn't have to pay postage, insurance and wait for a check to arrive from a national dealer. >>
This is an excellent explanation of the market. I always keep track of buying prices in the back of magazines as a reference for my purchases of common coins. I understand, though, that local dealers will not pay these same prices, as they may very likely wholesale the coins themselves to national firms.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
<< <i>Granted I realize that actual prices are going to fluctuate. But if dealer-to-dealer prices can be 100% off target then how in the he11 is an ordinary collector supposed to get a grip on "real coins, trading for real money"? Is there another guide out there that I am missing? And if the guides are so far off, than what are they worth? It seems to me that CDN's greysheet is THE MOST EXPENSIVE guide that I have ever purchased. You'd think it'd be more accurate. >>
Any guide is just that, a guide. While the greysheet is by far and large the most used (by dealers) rarely do we (dealers) actually use them for the purpose intended. Dealers use dealer networks far more often for price guides. Most collectors would be absolutely shocked at how average coins move at levels below sheet. Yesterday we bought several thousand wheat pennies for 2 Cents each, and we consistantly sell them over the counter at 3 to 3 1/2 cents each (depending on quantity). The last thing we are going to do is spend time looking for the occasional teen or somewhat better dates. We throw them in the bucket and sell them out of the bucket. If someone finds a 09-VDB or an early S mint, kudos to them. Bags routinely trade dealer to dealer in the $145 to $165 range (shipped). While it would be nice in a perfect world to go through each and every coin and pay greysheet prices, it just doesn't work like that in the real world. We keep around 100 to 150 wheats in 2x2's for retail sale, and with the exception of the 09-VDB or 22-D, I can't remember selling any other date over the counter. By the time I factor in the cost of the coin, flip, and the employee wages to flip this item, I am in at .50 cents. Most of these common low dates we price "retail" at 25 cents and NO ONE wants them. These are coins that list at .60 or .70 in the greysheet and we cannot move them at a quarter....
So what is the greysheet worth??????
Well that is an age old question with no real answers.
Common traded material can be bought at or near greysheet just about everywhere. If you look at Heritage or Teletrade, you will see loads and loads of material selling in this range.
If you look for "stock" material that will sit on a shop shelf forever and two days, this will trade at 20 to 25 % back. For modest shop stuff like proof sets and mint sets, the range is 5 to 12 % back.
Common unc Morgans and Peace dollars trade at levels that would shock most collectors.
Rare coins,,,,well you can forget any guide..Even auction prices don't keep up with true rarities...
Finally for the coins that everyone and their mother is looking for....ie: better Bust material, Barbers, and Flowing Hair stuff in the meaty grades that haven't been played with too much,,, well the guides won't help you there much either...
I for one appreciate all of the dealers who took time out to post to this thread. Very detailed posts indeed. As a collector I had no idea. Now I am much better informed. It's interesting how the price guides fit into the greater picture.
Much of what is posted here is mere common sense. I won't be so quick to bash a seeming dealer "rip" next time I feel offended by a low-ball price offered.
This has been a very educational post. Thanks to all!
It deserves a
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
I like the idea of giving coins to scouts or school kids to get them interested in our magnificent hobby. I'll bet I have close to $200 face of common wheaties that are heavy (about 35 lbs per $50) and have very little value each. However, to a kid who has never seen these wheat back cents, they can be a real spark to coin collecting. Similarly, common buffalo nickels are an inexpensive coin to give to kids.
Comments
<< <i>. . . It is much better for collectors to learn about the coins they are interested in, the typical wholesale and retail prices, before spending lots of money. Greysheet is one price guide, and as all guides are, it is flawed. Real coins, trading for real money, are what matters. Anyone blindly buying on sheet price alone, without knowing what real coins are trading at, may be in for a rude awakening. >>
Excellent post RedTiger! But how is anyone, let alone a collector supposed to get a clue about these prices? I rely upon the published price guides. Granted I realize that actual prices are going to fluctuate. But if dealer-to-dealer prices can be 100% off target then how in the he11 is an ordinary collector supposed to get a grip on "real coins, trading for real money"? Is there another guide out there that I am missing? And if the guides are so far off, than what are they worth? It seems to me that CDN's greysheet is THE MOST EXPENSIVE guide that I have ever purchased. You'd think it'd be more accurate.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>
<< <i>. . . It is much better for collectors to learn about the coins they are interested in, the typical wholesale and retail prices, before spending lots of money. Greysheet is one price guide, and as all guides are, it is flawed. Real coins, trading for real money, are what matters. Anyone blindly buying on sheet price alone, without knowing what real coins are trading at, may be in for a rude awakening. >>
Excellent post RedTiger! But how is anyone, let alone a collector supposed to get a clue about these prices? I rely upon the published price guides. Granted I realize that actual prices are going to fluctuate. But if dealer-to-dealer prices can be 100% off target then how in the he11 is an ordinary collector supposed to get a grip on "real coins, trading for real money"? Is there another guide out there that I am missing? And if the guides are so far off, than what are they worth? It seems to me that CDN's greysheet is THE MOST EXPENSIVE guide that I have ever purchased. You'd think it'd be more accurate. >>
A person talks to people. A person listens. A person keeps their ear to the ground. Again, if a person is going to spend a lot of money best to do all the above and learn before spending the big money. Buy small, sell a few coins back to another dealer, or on Ebay or on the BST section of this forum. Join a club, go to shows, ask around here. Some of the information will be wrong, or opinion based and not facts, but some of the information will be good. Just reading this thread, dozens of collectors learned what typical dealers pay for wheat cent rolls.
The greysheet is expensive and useful. However, the publishers do not buy or sell coins. The sheet is the most widely used guide, but it is still only a guide. Some coins are not listed in the sheet at all. For inexpensive low demand coins such as common wheat cents or common foreign coins that made need to be placed in 2x2s and binders to get a retail price, most dealers are going to factor in the cost of their time when they make an offer.
<< <i>But how is anyone, let alone a collector supposed to get a clue about these prices? >>
<< <i>A person talks to people. A person listens. A person keeps their ear to the ground. >>
Were I looking to sell and I had better dates, I'd consider calling somebody like this-
From the 4/23/07 issue of Coin World...
Buying:
10s 1c rolls: $7.00
20s 1c rolls: $4.00
30s 1c rolls: $2.40
S mint 1c rolls: $2.40
I'd think those prices are a better reflection of "current value" than a printed price guide.
Here's what I don't get;
2c-3c for:
1909 VDB in VG-8 $5.25-6.00 greysheet (113)
1909 - $1.20 - 1.35 greysheet (152)
1910 - $0.25 - 0.30 (78)
1911 - $0.35 - 0.40 (39)
1912 - $1.25 - 1.40 (37)
1913 - $0.55 - 0.60 (58)
1914 - $0.50 -0.55 (44)
1915 - 1.25 - 1.50 (7)
1916 - $0.15 -0.20 (98)
1917 - $0.15 -0.20 (54)
(go back a few posts and look at my pic of wheats)
Just the above example, if I look at greysheet I'm looking at $ 820 for the above coins, but if I'm getting 3c ea. we're talking only $21. There's definitely something wrong with this picture. If I went to any dealer here and I offer 150% of $21 for 700 pre-1920 wheats in VG-8 condition you would all laught me out of the building. BTW I think 150% over cost is a good Groos Margin.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Like every other dealer, these Wheats just go into buckets in the back. But here's what we do with them. Every year in May, the Boy Scouts have a Boy Scout Expo here in town. Lots of activities and fun for the family, where thousands show up. We put a handful of Wheats (abt 30 or so) in a zip lock bag and hand them out to every kid who wants one (we mark their hand so they only get one). The ones who look really interested, we give an old Whitman folder to also. We're building a collector base! I may have shared this, but one man was so impressed by this that he brought us a 90+ lb bucket of Wheats (for free) just so we could give them away!
Top prices as reflected in the Coin Dealer Newsletter (grey sheet) or other price guides often are mostly reflective for market makers, or the ultimate in dealer to retail customer sales. There are many other lower levels of selling coins. By this I mean that the highest prices for coins tend to involve the biggest dealers, particularly in their areas of expertise and interest and the big auctions. There are other tiers involving local collectors, dealers, small coin shows at one end; larger dealers and bigger shows in the middle, and the top tier as mentioned above. I have seen different levels of pricing in these various venues, but they are by no means always mutually exclusinve.
Thus, if I go to a local small dealer to sell common or better stuff, he can only pay what makes sense for him/her in order to make a profit. He has to either wholesale such coins to another dealer (up the food chain, so to speak), or sell on eBay or sit on such coins for possible long periods before they sell retail. If selling directly to the national market maker, one can often get an additional 10-20% more for certain coins. The examples of buy prices in the back of Coin World are a great way to see just what bigger outfits are advertising to pay for coins. I see such buy prices as much more realistic for the common stuff like wheat cents and low-grade type coins. Beginning collectors should pay close attention to such ads to make sure any investment potential they see in their purchases gets a reality check; better to learn this lesson early on and not get burned badly later.
My local small shows often feature moderate and lower cost coins selling at 10% below CDN bid or sometimes at bid. Better stuff is usually priced at ask or sometimes more. Bigger shows usually feature higher prices for the same types of coins. This actually offers opportunities for collectors/vest pocket dealers/etc. to buy stuff at the local level and sell at the bigger shows. You need to know your stuff, but you can use knowledge and your time to be part of this numismatic business and it can be profitable.
A recent case in point for me. A local coin show of about 30 dealers in the Midwest featured a 1937-D 3-leg buffalo in a first-tier PCGS holder offered to me and purchased by me for $950. The same coin I could likely sell to a national dealer for $1000 or more right now. The local dealer likely knew that as well, but he bought the coin for whatever price he paid, made a profit and didn't have to pay postage, insurance and wait for a check to arrive from a national dealer.
<< <i>A recent case in point for me. A local coin show of about 30 dealers in the Midwest featured a 1937-D 3-leg buffalo in a first-tier PCGS holder offered to me and purchased by me for $950. The same coin I could likely sell to a national dealer for $1000 or more right now. >>
If you sold that coin to a national dealer for $1050, you'd have made about 10% on the deal. Supposing the local dealer you bought from made a similar profit on his sale to you, he may have paid around $850 for the coin. The national dealer will now turn around and sell that same coin for $1250 or so, and everybody (well, not everybody, but some people, anyway) will call the local dealer scum for only paying a collector $850 for a $1250 coin.
<< <i>Another point not touched on so far in this forum as far as I can tell:
Top prices as reflected in the Coin Dealer Newsletter (grey sheet) or other price guides often are mostly reflective for market makers, or the ultimate in dealer to retail customer sales. There are many other lower levels of selling coins. By this I mean that the highest prices for coins tend to involve the biggest dealers, particularly in their areas of expertise and interest and the big auctions. There are other tiers involving local collectors, dealers, small coin shows at one end; larger dealers and bigger shows in the middle, and the top tier as mentioned above. I have seen different levels of pricing in these various venues, but they are by no means always mutually exclusinve.
Thus, if I go to a local small dealer to sell common or better stuff, he can only pay what makes sense for him/her in order to make a profit. He has to either wholesale such coins to another dealer (up the food chain, so to speak), or sell on eBay or sit on such coins for possible long periods before they sell retail. If selling directly to the national market maker, one can often get an additional 10-20% more for certain coins. The examples of buy prices in the back of Coin World are a great way to see just what bigger outfits are advertising to pay for coins. I see such buy prices as much more realistic for the common stuff like wheat cents and low-grade type coins. Beginning collectors should pay close attention to such ads to make sure any investment potential they see in their purchases gets a reality check; better to learn this lesson early on and not get burned badly later.
My local small shows often feature moderate and lower cost coins selling at 10% below CDN bid or sometimes at bid. Better stuff is usually priced at ask or sometimes more. Bigger shows usually feature higher prices for the same types of coins. This actually offers opportunities for collectors/vest pocket dealers/etc. to buy stuff at the local level and sell at the bigger shows. You need to know your stuff, but you can use knowledge and your time to be part of this numismatic business and it can be profitable.
A recent case in point for me. A local coin show of about 30 dealers in the Midwest featured a 1937-D 3-leg buffalo in a first-tier PCGS holder offered to me and purchased by me for $950. The same coin I could likely sell to a national dealer for $1000 or more right now. The local dealer likely knew that as well, but he bought the coin for whatever price he paid, made a profit and didn't have to pay postage, insurance and wait for a check to arrive from a national dealer. >>
This is an excellent explanation of the market. I always keep track of buying prices in the back of magazines as a reference for my purchases of common coins. I understand, though, that local dealers will not pay these same prices, as they may very likely wholesale the coins themselves to national firms.
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
<< <i>Granted I realize that actual prices are going to fluctuate. But if dealer-to-dealer prices can be 100% off target then how in the he11 is an ordinary collector supposed to get a grip on "real coins, trading for real money"? Is there another guide out there that I am missing? And if the guides are so far off, than what are they worth? It seems to me that CDN's greysheet is THE MOST EXPENSIVE guide that I have ever purchased. You'd think it'd be more accurate. >>
Any guide is just that, a guide. While the greysheet is by far and large the most used (by dealers) rarely do we (dealers) actually use them for the purpose intended.
Dealers use dealer networks far more often for price guides. Most collectors would be absolutely shocked at how average coins move at levels below sheet.
Yesterday we bought several thousand wheat pennies for 2 Cents each, and we consistantly sell them over the counter at 3 to 3 1/2 cents each (depending on quantity). The last thing we are going to do is spend time looking for the occasional teen or somewhat better dates.
We throw them in the bucket and sell them out of the bucket. If someone finds a 09-VDB or an early S mint, kudos to them.
Bags routinely trade dealer to dealer in the $145 to $165 range (shipped).
While it would be nice in a perfect world to go through each and every coin and pay greysheet prices, it just doesn't work like that in the real world.
We keep around 100 to 150 wheats in 2x2's for retail sale, and with the exception of the 09-VDB or 22-D, I can't remember selling any other date over the counter. By the time I factor in the cost of the coin, flip, and the employee wages to flip this item, I am in at .50 cents. Most of these common low dates we price "retail" at 25 cents and NO ONE wants them. These are coins that list at .60 or .70 in the greysheet and we cannot move them at a quarter....
So what is the greysheet worth??????
Well that is an age old question with no real answers.
Common traded material can be bought at or near greysheet just about everywhere. If you look at Heritage or Teletrade, you will see loads and loads of material selling in this range.
If you look for "stock" material that will sit on a shop shelf forever and two days, this will trade at 20 to 25 % back. For modest shop stuff like proof sets and mint sets, the range is 5 to 12 % back.
Common unc Morgans and Peace dollars trade at levels that would shock most collectors.
Rare coins,,,,well you can forget any guide..Even auction prices don't keep up with true rarities...
Finally for the coins that everyone and their mother is looking for....ie: better Bust material, Barbers, and Flowing Hair stuff in the meaty grades that haven't been played with too much,,, well the guides won't help you there much either...
Hope that helps a little....
Much of what is posted here is mere common sense. I won't be so quick to bash a seeming dealer "rip" next time I feel offended by a low-ball price offered.
This has been a very educational post. Thanks to all!
It deserves a
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Knowledge is the enemy of fear