You be the judge..I had a bad deal on eBay...
Stooge
Posts: 4,673 ✭✭✭✭✭
This has been on my mind for quite some time and I just have to talk about it. I've had, what I would call some "Serious disagreements" with a seller on eBay, who incidentally is a board member here. Do not ask who this person is, and do not ask me what the coin is, as I will not relinguish any answers regarding those 2. For sake of argument, the coin I bought was a "Lincoln Cent" and I bought it from "Bob the dealer" OK?
1) I bought this "Lincoln" which is a top-pop off of "Bob the dealer" on eBay for $229.95. It was listed as a B.I.N., and that is how I bought it. The coin in my mind being a very low condition census rarity is worth around $900-$1,000. Never the less I bought the coin and instantly paid for it through Paypal.
2) The very next day, I received an E-Mail from Paypal that my $$$ was returned to me, and actually was held up in transit for about 72 hours.
3) Minutes later, I received an E-Mail from "Bob the dealer" that the coin was listed in error and was not for sale?
4) This is a coin I desperately would like/liked to have owned since I'm trying to build my set. I E-mailed this dealer and it turned out that his Wife was listing the coins on eBay for him and listed it by accident. There was a scan/pic of the coin and I didn't see any error in the listing.
5) I receive the "Broken record routine" The coin is not for sale, the coin is not for sale, etc...
6) I dropped it and tried to forget about it but...
7) Kinda hard to forget about a coin that "The coin is not for sale" is now FOR SALE ON TELETRADE! Why was this coin not for sale? Why was it NOT OFFERED to me, ME the original purchaser of this coin!!! If it was not for sale and the listing was in error, how did it appear on TT, in just over 1 month?
8) I have had no further contact about this coin, nor have I contacted the dealer, but check this out...the coin hammered at $2,600 on TT and DID NOT SELL! Then was relisted again and hammered at $2,200 and DID NOT SELL!
9) Why was the coin NOT FOR SALE...because the seller is greedy.
Ironically the coin, a pop (2/0) lists in the PCGS price guide as a $100.00 coin.
First of all, all I needed to know was the truth which was the coin was grossly underpriced, and it was a major error listing and that the coin IS for sale at a more reasonable price. It should have been offered to me. Instead eBay and the seller BOTH refused to honor a LEGAL AND BINDING CONTRACT!
Ironically the seller advertises that he is a "SQUARE TRADE" seller.
I contacted eBay and they offered to suspend the seller and wipe out all of his auctions, which I opted to NOT DO, because he didn't deserve this. I was and am a very decent buyer and seller and wish no harm to any, but feel that I was totally ripped out of a coin.
So what say you? I feel that since it was a legal and binding contract and had he sold the coin to me he would never had known what TT would have resulted in. I believe the TT results are meaningless and pointless.
Later, Paul.
1) I bought this "Lincoln" which is a top-pop off of "Bob the dealer" on eBay for $229.95. It was listed as a B.I.N., and that is how I bought it. The coin in my mind being a very low condition census rarity is worth around $900-$1,000. Never the less I bought the coin and instantly paid for it through Paypal.
2) The very next day, I received an E-Mail from Paypal that my $$$ was returned to me, and actually was held up in transit for about 72 hours.
3) Minutes later, I received an E-Mail from "Bob the dealer" that the coin was listed in error and was not for sale?
4) This is a coin I desperately would like/liked to have owned since I'm trying to build my set. I E-mailed this dealer and it turned out that his Wife was listing the coins on eBay for him and listed it by accident. There was a scan/pic of the coin and I didn't see any error in the listing.
5) I receive the "Broken record routine" The coin is not for sale, the coin is not for sale, etc...
6) I dropped it and tried to forget about it but...
7) Kinda hard to forget about a coin that "The coin is not for sale" is now FOR SALE ON TELETRADE! Why was this coin not for sale? Why was it NOT OFFERED to me, ME the original purchaser of this coin!!! If it was not for sale and the listing was in error, how did it appear on TT, in just over 1 month?
8) I have had no further contact about this coin, nor have I contacted the dealer, but check this out...the coin hammered at $2,600 on TT and DID NOT SELL! Then was relisted again and hammered at $2,200 and DID NOT SELL!
9) Why was the coin NOT FOR SALE...because the seller is greedy.
Ironically the coin, a pop (2/0) lists in the PCGS price guide as a $100.00 coin.
First of all, all I needed to know was the truth which was the coin was grossly underpriced, and it was a major error listing and that the coin IS for sale at a more reasonable price. It should have been offered to me. Instead eBay and the seller BOTH refused to honor a LEGAL AND BINDING CONTRACT!
Ironically the seller advertises that he is a "SQUARE TRADE" seller.
I contacted eBay and they offered to suspend the seller and wipe out all of his auctions, which I opted to NOT DO, because he didn't deserve this. I was and am a very decent buyer and seller and wish no harm to any, but feel that I was totally ripped out of a coin.
So what say you? I feel that since it was a legal and binding contract and had he sold the coin to me he would never had known what TT would have resulted in. I believe the TT results are meaningless and pointless.
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
0
Comments
<< <i>I contacted eBay and they offered to suspend the seller and wipe out all of his auctions .. >>
Based on that statement alone, I question the credibility of this entire post.
<< <i>
<< <i>I contacted eBay and they offered to suspend the seller and wipe out all of his auctions .. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>I contacted eBay and they offered to suspend the seller and wipe out all of his auctions .. >>
Based on that statement alone, I question the credibility of this entire post.
You can go pound sand!
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
I may be wrong and I certaintly feel for you, however, it was listed wrong because as you mentioned it was listed for 229.00 when it is in fact a 900.00 coin. That is what the error was. I am not an attorney but something similar happened on ebay with a sportscard and the dealer did the same thing. By law (I was told) for a contract to be enforced you must have what they call a meeting of the minds. In your case the seller listred the wrong price and thus no meeting of the minds occured. I have also had other attorneys tell me that that is BS. So who knows?
In any event I bet it is on TT for the proper price?
Hope my eplanation helps you.
Steve
Paypal payments are handled electronically & not held up in transit. The most likely scenario is that the Seller returned your payment. Is your address confirmed?
<< <i>Do not ask who this person is >>
Don't have to. You provided more than enough info to figure it out.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>In your case the seller listred the wrong price and thus no meeting of the minds occured >>
He refused to talk about it. He stated to me that the coin was not for sale. If it was not for sale, why did it appear on TT?
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
Refunds can be held up for as much as 1 week.
Steve
<< <i>Is your address confirmed? >>
Yes of course! The $$$ came out of my checking account and was held up in transit.
<< <i>You provided more than enough info to figure it out. >>
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
<< <i>
<< <i>In your case the seller listred the wrong price and thus no meeting of the minds occured >>
He refused to talk about it. He stated to me that the coin was not for sale. If it was not for sale, why did it appear on TT?
Later, Paul. >>
Sounds to me like the seller is too afraid he might leave money on the table.
<< <i>Paypal payments are handled electronically & not held up in transit.
Refunds can be held up for as much as 1 week. >>
Yes, if the PayPal balance isn't enough to cover it and it's being transferred from a checking account. If the PayPal balance is sufficient, it's instant.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Since he would not because of his greed you should expose him. >>
Thats what you guys are for!
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
<< <i>
<< <i>Paypal payments are handled electronically & not held up in transit.
Refunds can be held up for as much as 1 week. >>
Yes, if the PayPal balance isn't enough to cover it and it's being transferred from a checking account. If the PayPal balance is sufficient, it's instant.
Russ, NCNE >>
Is this really the issue people? That my $$$ was tied up or that I got screwed?
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Is this really the issue people? That my $$$ was tied up or that I got screwed? >>
Getting screwed is when you are out money and receive nothing. You BINed a coin knowing full well that it was a pricing error. You did not get screwed.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Remember, the fact the coin did not sell on Teletrade at $2,600 and then $2,200 simply shows that the consignor (ebay seller) KNEW what he thought the coin was worth when he placed those reserves on Teletrade (but he overpriced the coin obviously). But, I believe no seller should have to forfeit a coin based upon a honest listing error on ebay, especially done by his wife. So, perhaps a fair resolution at this point is to price the coin somewhere back of the last TT reserve (somewhere between $1,000 - $2,000?) and try to reach a fair resolution with both sides giving in some. That is probably what I would be seeking if I were the original buyer on ebay. Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin >>
Wondercoin...I firmly believe after reading countless tales of your auctions that you would have just understood what happened and you would have done the right thing, whether it be offer the coin at a different price, or send it to TT and then offer it at a medium price.
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
<< <i>
<< <i>Is this really the issue people? That my $$$ was tied up or that I got screwed? >>
Getting screwed is when you are out money and receive nothing. You BINed a coin knowing full well that it was a pricing error. You did not get screwed.
Russ, NCNE >>
I did get screwed, because it wasn't offered to me, being the original purchaser. How am I suppose to know what the real price is when PCGS has it listed at $100? The $900-$1,000 is MY GUESS
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
Wondercoin
<< <i>Paul - And, no doubt you would have also been fair and not tried to force an honest mistake of an employee (or even worse - a spouse) on the seller. Which still gets you to the same place - a somewhat discounted price level on the coin off of "fair market value" just to keep the customer (bidder) happy. IMHO, that is the true way a problem like this is best handled.
Wondercoin >>
TRUE...This is one of several reasons as to why I have waited >60 days or so to mention anything. Somethings can just fester and this is one...I let the coin go and would probably not even buy it if offered.
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
I wonder if we both are talking about the same seller?????
<< <i>I wonder if we both are talking about the same seller????? >>
I highly doubt it.
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
<< <i><< I wonder if we both are talking about the same seller????? >>
I highly doubt it. >>
So do I. Not to worry, though. If it's the seller I'm thinking of his ego is so big he won't be able to resist posting to this thread if he sees it.
Russ, NCNE
If the seller has good feedback and is otherwise non problematic, I would say they made a mistake, an honest pricing mistake or listed it in error and refunded payment when the mistake was realized. I personally don't like that, I think people should pay more attention when listing, but I know I make my fair share of goofs. In this case and from what I am hearing it sounds like the seller did not do anything against the rules.
Sorry to hear you missed out on the coin.
In YOUR case, maybe he meant the BIN to be $2299.95 ..... A simple error in listing, which I'm SURE that you would have understood and accepted, had he been upfront about it...... (just speculation)
<< <i>In this case and from what I am hearing it sounds like the seller did not do anything against the rules. >>
So let me see..you sell a coin on eBay and sell it with a LEGAL and BINDING contract and it clearly states at the bottom of every auction on eBay that "Seller assumes all responsibility for listing this item" yet when it sells for a price you are not at all comfortable with you may screw the buyer and say..."OH well I don't want to sell today because I can get more later...go screw ur-self!"
Whatever dude!
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
<< <i><< In this case and from what I am hearing it sounds like the seller did not do anything against the rules. >> >>
<< <i>So let me see..you sell a coin on eBay and sell it with a LEGAL and BINDING contract and it clearly states at the bottom of every auction on eBay that "Seller assumes all responsibility for listing this item" yet when it sells for a price you are not at all comfortable with you may screw the buyer and say..."OH well I don't want to sell today because I can get more later...go screw ur-self!" >>
<< <i>Whatever dude! >>
Sir, with all due respect. You asked for opinions and I gave mine. Sounds like you are not not liking what I have to say. It may very well be I am wrong about the seller breaking the rules, but if that is your gripe, take it up with ebay. I was simply giving my opinion based on what I was reading. Let's say I am wrong (would not be the first time) and he broke the rules. Well, get off your duff and file a complaint sir, don't become angry with posters. I am not trying to start a fight here sir, but "Whatever dude!" does not sound like you really want opinions but rather everyone to jump on your bandwagon.
A simple "Rob, you are wrong, he broke the rules." sounds much nicer that what you posted.
Just my opinion, next time you ask for one, I will be sure not to give mine, it is obviously worthless to you.
I didn't mean to jump on your case, and for that I am wrong and I am very sorry. Your opinion does indeed mean something, its just that I have lots of different emotions right now.
I let this go and it came back to me. Had he sold this behind the scenes I wouldn't be having this post.
Rob, again I'm sorry.
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
Of course, what is ethical is a whole different story.....
Regards
Gary
<< <i>I contacted eBay and they offered to suspend the seller and wipe out all of his auctions, which I opted to NOT DO, because he didn't deserve this. >>
I smell B.S. While you can report a seller for nonperformance, Ebay would not under any circumstances "offer" to do anything, nor would they make any decision right there on the spot, let alone inform you of what that decision would be.
That being said, I would have less of a problem with a seller ending an auction early with pending bids due to a pricing mistake; that happens all the time. Since it was a BIN and the transaction was completed, the seller should honor the sale... of course that's easy to say as a 3rd party who isn't faced with the prospect of potentially losing thousands of dollars due to an eff-up. At the very least, I feel the seller is obligated to offer some sort of compensation to the buyer in lieu of completing delivery.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
What is not for sale today may be for sale tomorrow. People do change their minds. Of course i think that he realized that he did not want to sell it for that price after the fact, or he just made a mistake. Happens all the time. Just ask Superior.
/////////////////////////////////////////
OTOH, the Small-Claims Judge might buy the seller's story that
there was such "an obvious and big mistake" that any potential
for a meeting of the minds was precluded from the outset.
Equity abhors forfeiture.
<< <i>
<< <i>I contacted eBay and they offered to suspend the seller and wipe out all of his auctions, which I opted to NOT DO, because he didn't deserve this. >>
I smell B.S. While you can report a seller for nonperformance, Ebay would not under any circumstances "offer" to do anything, nor would they make any decision right there on the spot, let alone inform you of what that decision would be.
That being said, I would have less of a problem with a seller ending an auction early with pending bids due to a pricing mistake; that happens all the time. Since it was a BIN and the transaction was completed, the seller should honor the sale... of course that's easy to say as a 3rd party who isn't faced with the prospect of potentially losing thousands of dollars due to an eff-up. At the very least, I feel the seller is obligated to offer some sort of compensation to the buyer in lieu of completing delivery. >>
You are correct, sir!
eBay never reveals to any third party the action(s) or reason(s) for said action(s) taken against a member account. When you file a report against a user, eBay at most will reveal that they a) investigated the issue and b) "took appropriate action" if action was taken or c) "didn't find enough evidence" if no action was taken. As for a seller refusing to follow through with a purchase, that is as commonplace as non paying bidders. eBay uses a similar 3 strikes and you're out policy, however powersellers are allowed much more leniency. eBay wouldn't suspend an account for 1 non-performing seller strike, and even if they did (which they won't), they would not seek approval from the buyer, nor would they be in "communication" with the buyer as to "what to do next". I imagine the comical, fantastical conversation went somewhat like this "ebay, this guy screwed me!!!!!" "He did? What do you want us to do, Bob? You want us to end all his auctions and suspend him forever and ever?" "No ebay, I will let it slide this time because I'm a forgiving person. You have my orders. The seller stays." "Yes sir, Bob. You're the boss."
Keep in mind that I am a foul, unforgiving, insane man. That being said, I dislike stories where a lie is told right out of the gate, no matter how trivial it may be. They call it Greedbay for a reason, but you know it's not always shareholders or corporate execs that deserve that title. Much of the blame is already put upon the sellers, but the buyers share in this guilt. You saw a coin listed at a price so low you knew it had to be a mistake and you took a chance and tried to buy it. The seller caught the error before the transaction could be completed. That is not a case of you being screwed, that is a case of you being prevented from screwing the seller. A $900 loss, be it on a coin sale or from theft, is enough to wipe little people off the map, and no matter how big of a business one has, it's a hit nonetheless.
<< <i>Rob, again I'm sorry. >>
No need to be sorry my good sir. I understand this is upsetting. Perhaps next time I should look up the ebay rules before I guess at what might or might not be fact. I know if I were in your shoes I would be mad too.
All is well
I can tell you with certainty and experience that ANY contract can be shreded like toilet paper with enough effort.
Ebay contract/legaleeze is among the worst . Its a scouts honor code and childs play.
If there was a mistake in the listing price, and the coin purchased for $295.00 could have been credibly valued at $2995.00 the seller is well within his right to cancel the auction and refund your money.
You have absolutely no recourse uless you can prove harm or damages , in this case you dont have any. You probably can get a few dollars for lose of the money for a few days, and any pay pal fees. but other than some small claims you lose nothing. Ebay is entitled to keep thier fees for the auction and they probably will.
Anyone can refuse to sell anything to anyone that is priced incorrectly at any time right up until the transaction is COMPLETE, and as long as the buyer is not harmed , no claims can be made.
Sorry, contracts say one thing , mean another , and there are Libraries of case law that interpret language to mean somthing else.
Azcoindevil
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BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>Well, it saddens me to see this thread here. I don't see how anything beneficial can result from this discussion. This is the type of issue that should be resolved in private between the buyer and seller. If it cannot be satisfactorily settled, there are other avenues to take. Both the buyer and seller will suffer from what is being said here, and certainly nothing will be resolved, IMHO.
One benefit is that when a coin is purchased for 10% of value , folks may understand why the deal doesnt go through. I hate to disagree with a Senior member, but respectfully , this is an important discussion as alot of folks spend and sell many many dollars on Ebay.
Azcoindevil
You should out the seller, I would.
<< <i>$229.95 was the BIN...Had we spoke on the phone or E-mail I would have offered 2-3X's the amt. KNOWING that it sold low. How many of you would have done that?
Later, Paul. >>
but earlier post says
<< <i>I did get screwed, because it wasn't offered to me, being the original purchaser. How am I suppose to know what the real price is when PCGS has it listed at $100? The $900-$1,000 is MY GUESS >>
you knew damn good and well what it was worth otherwise, if PCGS list says it's $100, you'd still offer 2-3 x the BIN? Pound sand, you KNEW he made a mistake.
Your first sentence says it all, you wanted to vent, and I think you've done that pretty well without stepping on toes.
My guess is you misspoke or misheard what ebay told you. My guess is you asked what the penalty was for fraud and you were told it cold be up to ....
--Jerry
<< <i>If he listed it as Buy it Now, and you paid for it, the coin is yours. A done deal is a done deal.
You should out the seller, I would. >>
And if a car dealership misprinted an ad that stated 2007 Mustangs were on sale for $100, would you show up at the lot with your jar of pennies and demand to purchase the car? Would you leave the $100 on the lot, and then declare that you had paid for the car, so the deal is done, even without the consent of the salesman? Would you drive it off the lot? I wonder how far you'd get. A Buy It Now auction is an agreement to purchase, it is not a purchase per se, and an item has not been paid for until the money changes hands AND the other party accepts the funds. In this case, Paypal has no option to accept or deny funds, they are accepted automatically, and so the seller's first course of action is to issue a refund and/or reverse the transaction, much like the car dealer would wave your hand holding the $100 bill away from him, or hand it back to you if you had forcefully rendered it on his person. That's how I see this.
I don't condone sellers that list auctions and when they don't fetch the price they wanted, they cancel the sale. But that wasn't the case here. The buy it now price was clearly a mistake.