Is there a method to remove cleaning hairlines enough to get a coin graded by PCGS?(Pocket Test Star

moosesr · April 8, 2007 1:45AM

I have several Peace dollars (AU and circulated) that have hairlines that are only visible when you hold the coin at an angle with bright lighting. The hairlines are light enough they aren't visible with normal room lighting. Has anyone succesfully "de-cleaned" a coin to remove hairlines and later had it graded by PCGS or NGC?

Thanks,
Charlie

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Russ · April 8, 2007 1:52AM

Carry them around in your pocket until they wear down enough to remove the hairlines.

Russ, NCNE

Zoins · April 8, 2007 1:55AM

Wearing it down will work but you will lose detail and the technical grade will drop. You might also kill any luster that is left on the coins. The benefit of this approach is that you will have original surfaces.

If you don't want to lose detail or luster, people have been successful hiding hairlines by adding AT. The problem with AT is that you are changing the surfaces and hiding a problem. This can be considered morally objectionable.

Both can get into TPG slabs though whether the latter should is subject to vigorous debate.

cointagious · April 8, 2007 2:16AM

<< Carry them around in your pocket until they wear down enough to remove the hairlines.

Russ, NCNE >>

Put some color on it. Time honored tradition. Making a pocket piece out of it is too much of a downside risk.

ricko · April 8, 2007 2:22AM

Short session in a vibratory cartridge case cleaner... Cheers, RickO

moosesr · April 8, 2007 2:23AM

What's the best method of putting color on it?

Ronyahski · April 8, 2007 2:32AM

Put it in an album for twenty years.

PerryHall · April 8, 2007 2:34AM

<< What's the best method of putting color on it? >>

Taco Bell napkins which are high in sulfur. Put it in a warm part of the house and give them some time.

ColonialCoinUnion · April 8, 2007 2:38AM

Is someone going to mention lasering?

Zoins · April 8, 2007 2:38AM

The other slabbing option is to do nothing to the coin and submit to NCS or ANACS.

ricko · April 8, 2007 2:45AM

No one listens...

Cheers, RickO

DennisH · April 8, 2007 3:04AM

Lasering???

50cents · April 8, 2007 3:40AM

<< Put it in an album for twenty years. >>

Some people on this site think album toning is done overnight

And you're a coin doctor if you use a National Album

Zoins · April 8, 2007 3:42AM

<< 

<< Put it in an album for twenty years. >>

Some people on this site think album toning is done overnight

And you're a coin doctor if you use a National Album

>>

Some people on this site say AT is anything that is done intentionally.

50cents · April 8, 2007 4:03AM

<< 

<< 

<< Put it in an album for twenty years. >>

Some people on this site think album toning is done overnight

And you're a coin doctor if you use a National Album

>>

Some people on this site say AT is anything that is done intentionally.

>>

I would rather have the intent to toned than the intent to deceive by hiding hairlines.

Sotty · April 8, 2007 11:32AM

A circulated coin with light hairlines can sometimes be removed by using a baking soda paste made with baking soda and Ms70 or water, then massaged into the coin with the fingers. rinse off with water, then neutralize with acetone or alcohol, then left in the air or paper envelope for a few months.

TwoSides2aCoin · April 8, 2007 12:01PM

<< 

<< What's the best method of putting color on it? >>

Taco Bell napkins which are high in sulfur. Put it in a warm part of the house and give them some time. >>

I was thinking Rustoleum™

moosesr · April 8, 2007 12:09PM

"Carry them around in your pocket until they wear down enough to remove the hairlines. Russ, NCNE"

I have heard this technique mentioned before, but has anyone on the forum actually done this successfully with a hairlined silver dollar?

AUandAG · April 8, 2007 12:14PM

<< "Carry them around in your pocket until they wear down enough to remove the hairlines. Russ, NCNE"

I have heard this technique mentioned before, but has anyone on the forum actually done this successfully with a hairlined silver dollar? >>

Got 3 in my pocket for past 6 months....no changes yet....will let you know in a couple of years!
bob

seemyauction · April 8, 2007 12:40PM

<< Is someone going to mention lasering? >>

lets see.....how many of us have lasers? now where did I put that durn laser.....lol

AL

basestealer · April 8, 2007 12:56PM

<< "Carry them around in your pocket until they wear down enough to remove the hairlines. Russ, NCNE"

I have heard this technique mentioned before, but has anyone on the forum actually done this successfully with a hairlined silver dollar? >>

I would venture to guess that fully 9/10ths of all pre 1900 heavily circulated coinage has undergone that "treatment", albeit not "intentionally". It was commonplace to polish coins back then, and after a while, circulating back and forth, traces of that original cleaning were completely worn away. And then 100 years later, they look original because they are original, except for the few who would re-polish them and then you've got to wear it down to a smooth disc before it's original again. Just my opinion.

Myqqy · April 8, 2007 2:12PM

Put some color on it. Time honored tradition.

I've never heard of it mentioned as a T.H.T- I'll have to make a mental note of that one...

BigAl · April 8, 2007 2:37PM

dremmel?

mirabela · April 8, 2007 2:48PM

Let's agree from the outset that you aren't going to get a no-problem coin out of this scenario. You will either get a coin without hairlines, one grade lower, or you will get a coin at grade, with concealed hairlines. Part of what we all try to do is to be so good at evaluating coins that we will spot stuff like this. Of course, sometimes it gets into TPG holders (where we spot them, to our chagrin) and the question that launched the thread was how to get it into the holder.

So ...

Yeah, putting some color on is probably your best bet. None of the better methods available to us non-chemist type people are very quick, but you could accomplish it with time in a craft envelope, tissue paper, Mehrig or National album, wooden box (

), velvet, leather coin purse, sunny windowsill, shoebox, or anywhere else with some reactive materials around where you'll leave the coin alone for a long time. The catch is that unless you catch a lucky break, these methods take years, often decades.

There are some quicker ways, but I don't know most of them. And those that I do know are not only nefarious and wrong, they produce crappy looking coins that nobody would buy near grade whether they could see the hairlines or not.

The best bet is to avoid having hairlined coins to begin with.

pb2y · April 8, 2007 3:00PM

Don't do anything to the coin surface. Hang it high on an inside wall.
Silver exposed to open air will turn darker and eventually black as a chunk of coal---scratches and all.

tahoe98 · April 9, 2007 2:22AM

just thinking, what kind of medicine does a coin doctor prescribe?

SLABLETS!!!!

Regulated · April 9, 2007 2:38AM

Just remember that there is NOTHING that can be done to move the coin closer to the way it was when it left the mint. Anything that you do will push it farther and farther away from its ideal state.

PerryHall · April 9, 2007 3:22AM

<< Is someone going to mention lasering? >>

I usually hear about lasering for removing hairlines on the mirrored proof surfaces of gold coins. The laser actually melts the hairline causing it to flow back together. I doubt that lasering could be done on a nonmirrored frosty surface since it would leave a thin shiney line that would stand out against the frosty surfaces. I'm not sure if it would work on a proof or proof-like silver coin.

Zoins · April 9, 2007 3:35AM

<< 

<< Is someone going to mention lasering? >>

I usually hear about lasering for removing hairlines on the mirrored proof surfaces of gold coins. The laser actually melts the hairline causing it to flow back together. I doubt that lasering could be done on a nonmirrored frosty surface since it would leave a thin shiney line that would stand out against the frosty surfaces. I'm not sure if it would work on a proof or proof-like silver coin. >>

That sounds pretty cool. People doctors use lasers for surgery and coin docs can too. Seems like this approach can make the coin closer to the way it was when it left the mint.

RYK · April 9, 2007 4:02AM

Putty works.

mirabela · April 9, 2007 5:08AM

<< Just remember that there is NOTHING that can be done to move the coin closer to the way it was when it left the mint. Anything that you do will push it farther and farther away from its ideal state >>

I agree and I disagree.

The first statement is utterly true.

Once you are in the unfortunate position of having a crappy problem coin on your hands, though (and surely the better set of skills to develop is how not to wind up in this position) there are sometimes things you can do to make the appearance of the coin more palatable.

Everybody's tolerances for these things are different, but you'll see what I mean when you consider something like an XF45 bust half that got the baking soda treatment. Suppose this coin got the treatment yesterday, and is bright white today. Yuck. But suppose it got it in 1962, and has spent the interval in a 2x2 paper envelope in Grandpa's cigar box. It is still unoriginal. It still has hairlines & very little luster. But it is now covered in a pleasant patina of varying hues of brown, teal, violet, and rose. It is a pleasant coin, and acceptable as such to many collectors. Has it gotten closer to its original condition? Not hardly. But it has become somewhat more palatable from the perspective of the average hobbyist.

Time and "natural-ish" tone can help, some.

Boom · April 9, 2007 7:07AM

Carry it around long enough and eventually they will diminish, posssibly even fade away but then so will it's present strike status. Just carry it around!

Frankcoins · April 9, 2007 9:42AM

Not by other than wearing it down

DieClash · April 9, 2007 1:31PM

I hate to disagree with mirabella, but....

Paint that bugger up good and you can make Moon money$$$$

Look what color can do to an "improperly cleaned" proof! Can you say $26,450 PROFIT!!!

<< Just to clarify: The first coin sold in an NCS holder as Proof, improperly cleaned for $19,550 on April 26, 2006
<a href="http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=404&Lot_No=2164&src=pr">http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=404&Lot_No=2164&src=pr</A>

And the after one, same coin in a PCGS PR-63 holder for $46,000 on January 2, 2007
<a href="http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=422&Lot_No=1052&src=pr">http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=422&Lot_No=1052&src=pr</A>

So it took less than 8 months to get that "centuries old toned look"? >>

>>

moosesr · April 15, 2007 2:53AM

"Paint that bugger up good and you can make Moon money$$$$"

I am doing the "carry them around in your pocket" technique on two cleaned Peace Dollars as some have suggested. One dollar (VF) showed evidence of cleaning all over but on the other cleaned coin (AU), I painted the coin up with fingernail polish in areas where the cleaning was not evident (all of the reverse and 3/4 of the obverse). I put both these coins in a sock with a dozen other circulated coins and am now carrying them in my pocket. I have been carrying the coins in my pocket for about a week and can already see some improvement.

cointagious · April 15, 2007 3:20AM

<< Put some color on it. Time honored tradition.

I've never heard of it mentioned as a T.H.T- I'll have to make a mental note of that one...

>>

When you're done chuckling take a look at DieClash's post. That's how it's done.

JRocco · April 15, 2007 3:27AM

<< I hate to disagree with mirabella, but....

Paint that bugger up good and you can make Moon money$$$$

Look what color can do to an "improperly cleaned" proof! Can you say $26,450 PROFIT!!!

<< Just to clarify: The first coin sold in an NCS holder as Proof, improperly cleaned for $19,550 on April 26, 2006
<a href="http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=404&Lot_No=2164&src=pr">http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=404&Lot_No=2164&src=pr</A>

And the after one, same coin in a PCGS PR-63 holder for $46,000 on January 2, 2007
<a href="http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=422&Lot_No=1052&src=pr">http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=422&Lot_No=1052&src=pr</A>

So it took less than 8 months to get that "centuries old toned look"? >>

>>

>>

Amazing.....Sad, but amazing

Zoins · April 15, 2007 3:56AM

<< 

<< So it took less than 8 months to get that "centuries old toned look"? >>

Amazing.....Sad, but amazing

>>

Which part is sad?

Does the before or after picture look better to you?

Or the fact that it was slabbed as a problem free or net graded PCGS PR63?

Which would you rather have?

Rob85635 · April 15, 2007 2:58PM

<< Short session in a vibratory cartridge case cleaner... Cheers, RickO >>

What is a "vibratory cartridge case cleaner"?

neocirrhitus · April 15, 2007 3:26PM

I just wanted to add that hairlines won't result in a BB for cleaning all the time. I recently sent in a trade dollar error that was described by Stack's as having "moderate hairlines" in the obverse fields......and it certainly does. Coin was holdered AU58 by PCGS. Their grading standards listed on the site and book also mention hairlines as acceptable in the grading descriptions for lower MS/PR coins........The trade dollar in question does have nice luster, it just has obvious hairlines in the fields, guess it was 'market acceptable'.

oreville · April 15, 2007 3:27PM

a VISIT TO A NOSE, EAR AND THROAT DOCTOR.

Elcontador · April 15, 2007 5:16PM

Putty works. Laura might disagree with you.

Truth be told, hairlines are common on large silver coins, especially PFs. They are often the grade limiting items re PF Seated $s and PF Barber Halves. I've also seen a number of MS Trade Dollars with hairlines.

storm888 · April 15, 2007 5:31PM

"...has anyone on the forum actually done this successfully with a hairlined silver dollar?"

///////////////////////////////////////////

Yes.

BUT, your pockets can all wear out b4 the scratches disappear.

If the scratches are super vague and hard to see, a couple of
years in denim pockets will certainly do the trick.

StampAlarm · April 15, 2007 6:20PM

<< No one listens...

Cheers, RickO >>

What's a vibratory cartridge case cleaner?

Jerry

BigRed · April 15, 2007 8:24PM

I carried a cleaned quarter in my pockey with some loose BB's for several weeks and it looked much better. The BB's don't have sharp edges like other coins and won't put any nicks in the coin, just wear.

dorkkarl · April 15, 2007 10:38PM

hairlines are often ez to hide but i will say this, peace dollars are tougher to doctor than most other series. their satiny luster makes it tougher to simulate luster where hairlines are removed.

K S

Is there a method to remove cleaning hairlines enough to get a coin graded by PCGS?(Pocket Test Star

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