"First Day of Production" Labels?
PipestonePete
Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭✭✭
Do any of the TPG's provide a different label for any of the Mint's "First Day of Production" products such as the Washington Dollars which went on sale today. With all of the "First Strike" and "First Day of Issue" labels available, it would seem that the "First Day of Production" would have more integrity certainly than the "First Stike". And with a limited issue it would be more "mintage specific" than the "First Day of Issue". This might be a most interesting way to collect the Presidential Dollars.
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-Paul
<< <i>Do any of the TPG's provide a different label for any of the Mint's "First Day of Production" products such as the Washington Dollars which went on sale today. With all of the "First Strike" and "First Day of Issue" labels available, it would seem that the "First Day of Production" would have more integrity certainly than the "First Stike". And with a limited issue it would be more "mintage specific" than the "First Day of Issue". This might be a most interesting way to collect the Presidential Dollars. >>
Not that I know of. Bulk with a minimum of 100 is the only option available for FDI.
<< <i>It's impossible for PCGS to determine that information. The mint doesn't necessarily release them in order that they make them, and they start production before they release them, so there is no way to tell.
-Paul >>
The presedential coin covers that went on sale today are from day of production.-
<< <i>Expand your coin cover collection with a brand new series! The American Presidency $1 Coin Cover Series will showcase the new Presidential $1 Coins! Beginning the series is the 2007 George Washington $1 Coin Cover. This limited-edition cover—only 50,000 will be produced—features two George Washington $1 Coins from the first day of production, November 9, 2006 (Philadelphia), and November 28, 2006 (Denver). Each cover includes two $1 coins, one each from the United States Mint facilities at Philadelphia and Denver, on a handsome display card with the 39-cent United States Lady Liberty and Flag postage stamp. Additionally, the cover features a portrait of our first President in front of an American flag. The postmark of February 15, 2007, Mount Vernon, VA, marks the day the George Washington $1 Coins were first released to the Federal Reserve Bank and to the public. >>
<< <i>It's impossible for PCGS to determine that information. The mint doesn't necessarily release them in order that they make them, and they start production before they release them, so there is no way to tell.
-Paul >>
I don't know about that.....The following is from the US MInt's website. It sure has more credability than the so called "First Issue or First Strike" designation.
This limited-edition cover—only 50,000 will be produced—features two George Washington $1 Coins from the FIRST DAY OF PRODUCTION.
<< <i>
<< <i>Do any of the TPG's provide a different label for any of the Mint's "First Day of Production" products such as the Washington Dollars which went on sale today. With all of the "First Strike" and "First Day of Issue" labels available, it would seem that the "First Day of Production" would have more integrity certainly than the "First Stike". And with a limited issue it would be more "mintage specific" than the "First Day of Issue". This might be a most interesting way to collect the Presidential Dollars. >>
Not that I know of. Bulk with a minimum of 100 is the only option available for FDI. >>
In order for the coin covers to certified with the FDI insert you must submit 100 coin covers = 200 coins (100 P & 100 D)
-Paul
<< <i>It would seem that the TPG's would offer a label for this just as they did for the 2000 Millenium sets, for instance. Did anyone submit any of the "First Day of Production" Sacs? There really should be a defining label for these limited offerings, don't you think? >>
Actually, the Mint has similar wording on all of their coin FDC's (Nickel, Quarter, Dollar), and as far as I'm coincerned, these are the only issued "First Strikes" from the Mint.
<< <i>
<< <i>It would seem that the TPG's would offer a label for this just as they did for the 2000 Millenium sets, for instance. Did anyone submit any of the "First Day of Production" Sacs? There really should be a defining label for these limited offerings, don't you think? >>
Actually, the Mint has similar wording on all of their coin FDC's (Nickel, Quarter, Dollar), and as far as I'm coincerned, these are the only issued "First Strikes" from the Mint. >>
Someone across the street that has been buying these coin covers had this to say about them.-
<< <i>If the state quarter covers are any indicator, these covers will be a good investment if left unopened in their cardboard mailers. If you check the prices of full sets through 2006 of quarter first day covers,unopened, you'll find that they bring a pretty good price.I like to get a few of each, then I open one to be able to look at and stash the others. I've always found them to be above average strikes with very few if any minor contact marks. Good luck ! CC >>
These covers do not qualify.
So, $2400 for the whole set.
You're exactly right. Here is an opportunity for PCGS to put the truth back into "First Strike". Except for ultra rare coins which are struck at special ceremonies for select politicos etc., the Mint's First Day PRODUCTION coins are the only bonafide "First Strikes" and are certainly the only bonafide "First Strikes" available to the average collector. I would like to hear a rationale from PCGS for not labeling these first day of production coins as such regardless of the number submitted.
<< <i>Basestealer---
You're exactly right. Here is an opportunity for PCGS to put the truth back into "First Strike". Except for ultra rare coins which are struck at special ceremonies for select politicos etc., the Mint's First Day PRODUCTION coins are the only bonafide "First Strikes" and are certainly the only bonafide "First Strikes" available to the average collector. I would like to hear a rationale from PCGS for not labeling these first day of production coins as such regardless of the number submitted. >>
You have my vote...
<< <i>PCGS "first strike" pedigrees are completely bogus--it's a first class falsehood ripping off countless uninformed people who truly believe they're receiving coins among the first struck in an issue. They are not. What adds bittersweetness to this little fiasco is that the US mint agrees with this position and has said so time and time again, much to the dismay of the TPGs that misuse the title. Further insult to injury is added when a legimate "first strike" coin is actually released by the US mint, such as those found on the first day covers, and PCGS refuses to grade them as such unless they are sent in "bulk". It's either a first strike or it isn't. It does not suddenly become a first strike if I have 100 of them or 200 of them. It is a first strike if I have 1 or a million, because that's what it is. But PCGS doesn't care what a coin actually is--they only care about what they falsely claim it is, and it has destroyed their credibility in my book. No amount of anger, rage, self-loathe, chest thumping, haughty fist shaking or the like by any executive is ever going to change these facts. And when collector outrage forces them to change their practices, the people who spoke the loudest and the earliest will have been lost in the dust of this company's vengeance to keep this embarassing gaffe alive for as long as possible. I wonder if any of the people canned for being honest will be invited back or receive apologies once said changes are made? You can bet your golden PCGS 67 dollars they won't. >>
Here, here .. as the "Britts" would say.
<< <i>Seems to me it's better to just keep them in the original packaging so it's always known they are first day and call it good. >>
Capitalism works at the U.S. Mint just as well as it does at PCGS, NGC, ICG, ANACS and Ebay for that matter.
Just because I believe I will catch fish at a certain fishing hole doesn't mean I won't catch a bigger one at the next or the next or the next.
Am I reaching you ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Backordered?!? So have they all already been purchased? I tried to order one and it's back ordered already! >>
According to the US Mint Web site...back order date is 4/5 (today?)
Box of 20
<< <i>How are these already out there? I thought they were first day only or was there others that were 1st day? The page shows April 5th as the ship dates, but they are already on ebay and one member here found a smooth edge 1st day? What am I missing? >>
We are discussing the First Day Coin Covers & not the rolls...FDC's on eBay are all Presale items.
<< <i>How are these already out there? I thought they were first day only or was there others that were 1st day? The page shows April 5th as the ship dates, but they are already on ebay and one member here found a smooth edge 1st day? What am I missing? >>
The other FDI's was done on short notice of program by pcgs, I beliebve they announced Feb 12 some but not all details, and basically you had to find the rolls at the banks on or before the 15th of Feb, then ship min of 100 to pcgs postmarked on or before the 15th to qualify for FDI label.
<< <i>Basestealer---
You're exactly right. Here is an opportunity for PCGS to put the truth back into "First Strike". Except for ultra rare coins which are struck at special ceremonies for select politicos etc., the Mint's First Day PRODUCTION coins are the only bonafide "First Strikes" and are certainly the only bonafide "First Strikes" available to the average collector. I would like to hear a rationale from PCGS for not labeling these first day of production coins as such regardless of the number submitted. >>
I agree. Why a minumum of 100? If I have 10 of these sets they should deserve the First Day label just as much as 100 coins do.
Again, as far as I am aware, these dont qualify.
<< <i>FDI had to be in postmarked packages (Feb 15 or before) mailed to PCGS .
Again, as far as I am aware, these dont qualify. >>
The FDI insert is avaliable for the GW presidential coin covers through the bulk department. Since these are certfied by the mint as containg coins from the first day of production, and come postmarked with the Feburary 15th postmark which was the first day they were issued to the public. I was told by the bulk department the requirements for the FDI insert are:
1/. Minimum of a 100 coin covers (100 P & 100 D coins) = $1,495
2/. Flat rate of $12 a coin - No minimum grade can be specified = $2,400
3/. Coin Cover packaging must not be opened.
<< <i>
<< <i>FDI had to be in postmarked packages (Feb 15 or before) mailed to PCGS .
Again, as far as I am aware, these dont qualify. >>
The FDI insert is avaliable for the GW presidential coin covers through the bulk department. Since these are certfied by the mint as containg coins from the first day of production, and come postmarked with the Feburary 15th postmark which was the first day they were issued to the public. I was told by the bulk department the requirements for the FDI insert are:
1/. Minimum of a 100 coin covers (100 P & 100 D coins) = $1,495
2/. Flat rate of $12 a coin - No minimum grade can be specified = $2,400
3/. Coin Cover packaging must not be opened. >>
And pray that all grade 66 or better....what a ripoff....
Pricing for Bulk Submission from Bulk Submission Department:
$6 a coin if 65 below, can also have them graded "brillant uncirculated" if they fall below a certain grade you specify
$10 a coin if 66
$12 a coin if 67
$15 a coin if 68
$20 a coin if 69
$30 a coin if 70
I think you will see nicer examples coming from the first day coin covers than from the bank rolls. Hopefully at least a couple FDI 68's
INNOVATIONS AND OPTIONS
PCGS offers a variety of new innovations and options for this exciting series. Innovations include a new, three-prong gasket that will afford a clear view of the edge of the coins, where the incuse date and mintmark will be located. Options include colorful, collectible inserts and a First Day of Issue option. PCGS offers the following guidance for submissions of the new Presidential $1 coins:
1. Tri-ViewTM Gasket (standard). All Presidential Dollars will be holdered with a new, three-pronged gasket. The coins will be oriented in the gasket so that the date and mintmark are clearly visible.
2. First Day of Issue (optional). Presidential coins delivered to PCGS on the first official day of their release or sent in sealed packages postmarked on that date will qualify for a special First Day of Issue designation.
3. Custom Inserts (optional). PCGS offers custom-designed, colorful inserts to form a collectible subset of the Presidential coin series.
[i]
<< <i> Except for ultra rare coins which are struck at special ceremonies for select politicos etc., the Mint's First Day PRODUCTION coins are the only bonafide "First Strikes" and are certainly the only bonafide "First Strikes" available to the average collector. >>
This of course assumes you choose to believe they were produced when the Mint says they were, keeping in mind the Mints great reputation for honesty
I find it very hard to believe they would accept these covers as FDI insert eligible. Right or Wrong, the market is made by the "tough" timing standards in submitting the coins (2/15). IMO, if they let this fly, FDI designation will be less desirable.
It's just like allowing any mint product (offered in multiple options throughout the year) released and in sealed packages qualify for FS or FDI well after the initial release.
And by the way, bulk orders of Prez dollars have no "time" constraint, i.e. guaranteed turnarounds - many who delivered Prez Dollars for FDI in and around Feb 20/21 are still waiting for thier coins. So, if you plan on getting those back soon, good luck....you'll probably see them in June or July.
As for grading 68's.......so far highest is 67, and not many. Forget about it.....
<< <i>
I find it very hard to believe they would accept these covers as FDI insert eligible. Right or Wrong, the market is made by the "tough" timing standards in submitting the coins (2/15). IMO, if they let this fly, FDI designation will be less desirable. >>
The market, in this case, is completely bogus. Both the marketers and those buying into it are building collections, making profits, and spending money on deception.
<< <i>It's just like allowing any mint product (offered in multiple options throughout the year) released and in sealed packages qualify for FS or FDI well after the initial release. >>
Heaven forbid PCGS allow the only genuine first strikes into their coveted first strike labeling club. You're right. It's best that PCGS disallow any of these legitimate first strike coins into their first strike pedigree, because this way collectors will know that all PCGS first strikes are nothing of the sort, and the ones issued by the mint will stay intact and available for any collector that truly wants a first strike.
Box of 20
These coin covers, in my opinion, dont seem to qualify under the offical guidance thread provided in early Feb. The mailing packages addressed to PCGS are not - and cannot be postmarked 2/15.
As for "the market" - again, right or wrong, just by gauging the interest in the FDI label starting to gear up, this is going to be another winner for PCGS.
<< <i>I suppose Ron Guth should opine on the subject to put all opinions to rest.
These coin covers, in my opinion, dont seem to qualify under the offical guidance thread provided in early Feb. The mailing packages addressed to PCGS are not - and cannot be postmarked 2/15.
As for "the market" - again, right or wrong, just by gauging the interest in the FDI label starting to gear up, this is going to be another winner for PCGS. >>
The coin covers are in sealed packages postmarked on Feb 15th which is why PCGS will certify them as FDI.-
<< <i>This limited-edition cover—only 50,000 will be produced—features two George Washington $1 Coins from the first day of production, November 9, 2006 (Philadelphia), and November 28, 2006 (Denver). Each cover includes two $1 coins, one each from the United States Mint facilities at Philadelphia and Denver, on a handsome display card with the 39-cent United States Lady Liberty and Flag postage stamp. Additionally, the cover features a portrait of our first President in front of an American flag. The postmark of February 15, 2007, Mount Vernon, VA, marks the day the George Washington $1 Coins were first released to the Federal Reserve Bank and to the public. >>
<< <i>There must be some interest in the FDCC's ...Mint now shows a new Back-Order date of 4/22 ... These may turn out to be "sleepers" with only 50k produced... >>
Here is what someone across the street that buys the mint coin cover shad to say about them.-
<< <i>If the state quarter covers are any indicator, these covers will be a good investment if left unopened in their cardboard mailers. If you check the prices of full sets through 2006 of quarter first day covers,unopened, you'll find that they bring a pretty good price.I like to get a few of each, then I open one to be able to look at and stash the others. I've always found them to be above average strikes with very few if any minor contact marks. Good luck ! CC >>
<< <i>
<< <i>There must be some interest in the FDCC's ...Mint now shows a new Back-Order date of 4/22 ... These may turn out to be "sleepers" with only 50k produced... >>
Here is what someone across the street that buys the mint coin cover shad to say about them.-
<< <i>If the state quarter covers are any indicator, these covers will be a good investment if left unopened in their cardboard mailers. If you check the prices of full sets through 2006 of quarter first day covers,unopened, you'll find that they bring a pretty good price.I like to get a few of each, then I open one to be able to look at and stash the others. I've always found them to be above average strikes with very few if any minor contact marks. Good luck ! CC >>
>>
Perhaps...but you can still get most of these covers from the Mint @ $14.95 each. I doubt if there is much of a premium at this time. Also, the Mint several month ago lowered the price from $19.95 to $14.95 trying to get rid of the back log.
Why would you think that the cover had the coin inserted on or before Feb 15?
Now if the outer mint package (even the white cardboard sealed cover container) was postmarked 2/15.....you might have a case...
But just the cover postmarked 2/15? If i'm a betting man, then I would believe the coins in those covers may not have been inserted prior to 2/15.
Let PCGS certify them as Coin Cover Coins....but not FDI.