PRESTO! CHANGO!

Russ · March 31, 2007 7:25AM

Russ, NCNE

speety · March 31, 2007 7:27AM

But i thought they were always right the first time?

ricko · March 31, 2007 7:29AM

They will keep on until they get it right.... that is what is perceived to be right... "Russ's Law"...

Cheers, RickO

lasvegasteddy · March 31, 2007 7:31AM

nice...very nice there russ and congrats too

pursuitofliberty · March 31, 2007 7:42AM

where's the bwahhhaahaaa dog!!

but seriously, that sucks dude

TorinoCobra71 · March 31, 2007 7:45AM

Congrats RUSS!! Keep us up to date on the next one that is going in. Put that in the online set registry then put it away into THE STASH™ where it will never see the light of day again!

TorinoCobra71

MadMarty · March 31, 2007 8:11AM

Russ · March 31, 2007 8:15AM

What are you laughing at, Marty?

Russ, NCNE

pbfloyd · March 31, 2007 8:40AM

Which was the best grade? 66-CAM or 65 DCAM?

STONE · March 31, 2007 8:45AM

Nice job Russ. Patience really is a virtue and you caught PCGS on a good day.

BTW- I searched about 50 "unopened" 1964 Proof Sets this afternoon and found 1 Accented Hair Kennedy in at least a 68 CAMEO grade. I also found 2 transition die pairing Kennedy's from 1964. Thought you should know.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · March 31, 2007 8:52AM

<< Which was the best grade? 66-CAM or 65 DCAM? >>

65 DCAM

Russ · March 31, 2007 8:53AM

<< Which was the best grade? 66-CAM or 65 DCAM? >>

At 65DCAM it's worth about 10X as much as MS66CAM.

Russ, NCNE

Monstavet · March 31, 2007 9:16AM

the coin never changed, so ur still selling it for 65CAM money, right?

Just curious about the progression of the serial numbers on the PCGS holders. From 65CAM to 65DCAM, the serial number stayed the same, but the designation changed by one digit. Was sent in holder for grade review?

Russ · March 31, 2007 9:20AM

<< From 65CAM to 65DCAM, the serial number stayed the same, but the designation changed by one digit. Was sent in holder for grade review? >>

Designation review.

Russ, NCNE

N8 · March 31, 2007 10:34AM

For those wondering if Russ is a certified grader, this should clear things up:

ttown · March 31, 2007 10:42AM

I'm sure when you sell it you'll say it was what the pervious grade was, ethics you know

Russ · March 31, 2007 10:53AM

<< I'm sure when you sell it you'll say it was what the pervious grade was, ethics you know >>

Aside from the fact that I don't intend to sell it, the previous grade is irrelevant. It is now in the correct holder.

Russ, NCNE

Bear · March 31, 2007 10:57AM

Resistance is futile, the coin will

be assimilated.

LeeG · March 31, 2007 10:59AM

Nice job Russ. You believed in what you had and stuck with it. Grading is subjective.

cladking · March 31, 2007 11:07AM

Well, it looks like the right holder now.

Cam40 · March 31, 2007 11:16AM

how could it be higher than a 64 with the cheek mark?

Russ · March 31, 2007 11:19AM

<< how could it be higher than a 64 with the cheek mark? >>

It's not a mark. It's die polish.

Russ, NCNE

Cam40 · March 31, 2007 11:20AM

oh, a die polish mark.
whats the diff.
its still a `mark`

ttown · March 31, 2007 11:23AM

Funny isn't it? Lets see is that really wear or is it from friction? Coin collecting is a real science isn't it? Crap on the cheek is just that no matter how it was made but at least you can try to defend it with some fancy talk.

Cam40 · March 31, 2007 11:25AM

okay its not a `mark` as in a `hit`
but is a die (frost) break and shouldnt that keep it from gem status?
no?
okay, its all subjective anyway
what is grading but an opinion.

Russ · March 31, 2007 11:27AM

<< oh, a die polish mark.
whats the diff.
its still a `mark >>

There's a big difference. I'm surprised you don't understand that.

Russ, NCNE

TwoSides2aCoin · March 31, 2007 11:29AM

Spanish 101
presto , chango, perfecto mundo ~

It's all greek to me

Cam40 · March 31, 2007 11:30AM

maybe greek to you but its geek to me

grabba · March 31, 2007 11:36AM

Nice Kennedy Russ.

You selling?

garsmith · March 31, 2007 11:38AM

One more crack out and you might get the 66 DCAM

JFK has a nice die polish dimple

Russ · March 31, 2007 11:39AM

<< You selling? >>

No, but if I was you'd be on my top 10 list.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · March 31, 2007 11:41AM

<< One more cracj out and you might get the 66 DCAM >>

Nope. It doesn't deserve that grade, so it stays where it is now.

I do have another one, (a 1967), that's currently graded cameo at MS67 that will land in an MS66DCAM holder, though. Same source as this one.

Russ, NCNE

RR · March 31, 2007 11:51AM

Sad, but it's examples like this that makes this game a joke sometimes.

Hey, congrats!

RR

grabba · March 31, 2007 12:07PM

<< 

<< You selling? >>

No, but if I was you'd be on my top 10 list.

Russ, NCNE >>

Hot damn!

Now, if I can only outlive you.

Fjord · March 31, 2007 12:57PM

<< Nice job Russ. Patience really is a virtue and you caught PCGS on a good day. >>

With all due respect to Russ (and good on him for his success), this further erodes my trust in the "system" of TPGing.

Huge variations in price based on grading opinions that vary from submission to submission.

TwoSides2aCoin · March 31, 2007 1:07PM

<< 

<< Nice job Russ. Patience really is a virtue and you caught PCGS on a good day. >>

With all due respect to Russ (and good on him for his success), this further erodes my trust in the "system" of TPGing.

Huge variations in price based on grading opinions that vary from submission to submission. >>

Hold your horses, Nellie...

Don't mistrust the TPGs, Grading is not science, it is subjective in nature. There is no problem is there ?
It's somewhere between a 65 and a 66. It is probably a 65.8 or 65.9.
It is between deep cameo and cameo. A reflectivity test is still subjective when determining cameo from deep cameo. Perhaps CAMEO ought to be dropped altogether. Why not just put a price tag on it instead of rendering a grade ?

I think the TPGs are trying, as well as Dealers/Profiteers. Keep in mind that not all profiteers/dealers and TPGs are numismatists. Make no mistake about that

. It's a good hobby still, and a few of the third party grading services mean well, as do many profiteers/dealers.

Animalkeeper · March 31, 2007 1:13PM

It's little exercises like this that pull the veil away for us all to see that the TPG is a ruse for those that cannot grade coins.

Buy the coin and not the holder. Never more true than now.

Congrats Russ. You done well.

Bryan1315 · March 31, 2007 1:42PM

guess thats one of them coins that just keep getting better with age

TwoSides2aCoin · March 31, 2007 1:52PM

<< It's little exercises like this that pull the veil away for us all to see that the TPG is a ruse for those that cannot grade coins.

Buy the coin and not the holder. Never more true than now.

Congrats Russ. You done well. >>

First, you say Russ can't grade (after all , he tried it three times) ... then you congratulate him AFTERWARD. We call that a knuckle sandwich where I come from

poorguy · March 31, 2007 2:01PM

Not very surprising. If they got it right on the first try, they couldn't have charged you for the 2 additional submissions.

foxxze · April 1, 2007 3:12AM

<< 

<< Nice job Russ. Patience really is a virtue and you caught PCGS on a good day. >>

With all due respect to Russ (and good on him for his success), this further erodes my trust in the "system" of TPGing.

Huge variations in price based on grading opinions that vary from submission to submission. >>

amen to that ............

foxxze · April 1, 2007 3:28AM

if it was not a dcam the first couple times through ; then it is probably not a Dcam now .

Break it out and send it in raw.

You pull the pants down and see if it`s a boy or a girl ; pretty simple to figure out -

unless your dealing with a hermarphrodite.......

But we ain`t got no he/she here ; we got a coin thats either a dcam or it`s not .

Is it a dcam this year ?

what about 2 years from now ?

Was it a dcam last year ??

I`m selling off my NGC Cameo S.M.S crap because their is no consistancy to their opinions ........

Looks like PCGS has the same problem .

Put this coin up a few grades ........ suppose it was graded MS-68 ; and the guy you bought it from tried 7 times to get the DCam ......

then on your 4th try you get the nod ; it go`es up in value a hundred grand ??? give me a break

Mr. Hall said when PCGS was born : "our grading standards will not change " and " will will have grading accuracy of over 90% "

.......when you have countless examples of coins over time and numerous submissions getting graded all over the map -

I think it safe to assume Mr. Hall was in error .

For heavens sakes , if any of you have purchased coins from Russ and had them upgrade ..... post big pictures of befor and after so he can feel the love

Russ · April 1, 2007 3:30AM

<< if it was not a dcam the first couple times through ; then it is probably not a Dcam now >>

You should probably stick to Frankies. At least that way you can pretend you know something.

Russ, NCNE

foxxze · April 1, 2007 6:12AM

amen to that too ..........

as I have said , I tried to break into the SMS Cameo field ; but you got a headlock on it .

I would reckon ` you can grade /attribute S.M.S. cameo coinage better then ANY PCGS grader - yet you must live with their repeated shortcommings.

Specialists is any series have to contend with being smarter then the freakin` graders !

Fjord · April 12, 2007 11:28AM

<< 

<< 

<< Nice job Russ. Patience really is a virtue and you caught PCGS on a good day. >>

With all due respect to Russ (and good on him for his success), this further erodes my trust in the "system" of TPGing.

Huge variations in price based on grading opinions that vary from submission to submission. >>

Hold your horses, Nellie...

Don't mistrust the TPGs, Grading is not science, it is subjective in nature. There is no problem is there ?
It's somewhere between a 65 and a 66. It is probably a 65.8 or 65.9. [snip] >>

Here's what I've seen as an observer.

1. Coins sent to the same TPG several times are given variable grades. These grades substantially affect the price.
2. Coins sent to the same TPG several times are sometimes slabbed and sometimes BB'd. These decisions substantially affect the price.

It doesn't make me "trust" that an MS65 is really that grade or worth the extra money, nor that an encapsulated coin is original or problem free.
I'm not seeing anything that makes me value the TPG's opinion enough to think it's worth the hassle.

Then again I am not the market for these coins. Such perfectionism and its pursuit is wasted on me.

I like a mid-grade MS coin as much as a perfectly struck, mark free example, and they typically cost 1/4 or less than the higher grade example.

Newcomp103 · April 12, 2007 11:44AM

NGC was the conservative one on this coin....how did that happen? an NGC 65CAM should have been a PCGS 64....right????

TwoSides2aCoin · April 12, 2007 11:59AM

<< NGC was the conservative one on this coin....how did that happen? an NGC 65CAM should have been a PCGS 64....right????

>>

In a perfect world, Kennedy wouldn't even be on a coin

Laura would !

PRESTO! CHANGO!

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