Interesting experience with a 1924-D Buffalo nickel

gyocomgd · March 30, 2007 6:08AM

This coin was in an ANACS MS64 holder, and I felt certain it would cross easily to a PCGS holder. It really
is terrific, and the color appealed to me even though I'm not a toning nut. Alas, PCGS refused to cross it,
citing questionable color. What to do? I need it in a PCGS holder to add to my registry there, and more and
more I'm liking my certified coins to be in a PCGS holder anyway.

So, out comes the hammer. I then dipped the coin very quickly in a solution of water and dip, diluted 50-50.
A long rinse in cold water, followed by a long swish in a baking soda/water solution to neutralize any remaining
acid. The idea was to melt just enough of that color away to perhaps curb the graders' tendency to suspect AT. Now,
I don't know if they'll cast a more favorable eye toward the coin or not. But I'm happy with the more plausible
appearance of the coin, and in hand it's truly impressive. It has luster to beat the band, it's struck up nicely
for the issue, and certainly it looks more original. Here's the before and after.

eyoung429 · March 30, 2007 6:10AM

I LOVE the original.....the after-effect is more like other registry coins....albiet should make 65 w/no questions!!

gyocomgd · March 30, 2007 6:14AM

<< I LOVE the original.....the after-effect is more like other registry coins....albiet should make 65 w/no questions!! >>

Granted, the original is a lot sexier. But PCGS wouldn't certify it, and who knows, they may be more wary of the
"MOC syndrome" these days. I realize it's a desperate measure, and there are those who will say, "Who cares if it's
in a PCGS holder or not? ANACS is good enough." But I do want it in a PCGS holder.

Connecticoin · March 30, 2007 6:16AM

I like the before picture better. Based on the after image, it looks like the dip impaired the luster somewhat.

Have you seen Buffs with comparable color in PCGS holders? If so, I would have taken another shot at it, perhaps mixing it in with some other "less questionable" toned buffs on the submission.

gyocomgd · March 30, 2007 6:17AM

<< I like the before picture better. Based on the after image, it looks like the dip impaired the luster somewhat.

Have you seen Buffs with comparable color in PCGS holders? If so, I would have taken another shot at it, perhaps mixing it in with some other "less questionable" toned buffs on the submission. >>

I did that. This was the only crazy toner in the entire 15-coin crossover submission.

Longacre · March 30, 2007 6:25AM

I like the after picture. The before picture looks a little too odd for me.

So who will win the Masters this year?

Connecticoin · March 30, 2007 6:29AM

<< 

<< I like the before picture better. Based on the after image, it looks like the dip impaired the luster somewhat.

Have you seen Buffs with comparable color in PCGS holders? If so, I would have taken another shot at it, perhaps mixing it in with some other "less questionable" toned buffs on the submission. >>

I did that. This was the only crazy toner in the entire 15-coin crossover submission. >>

Ahh, a crossover. Submitting it raw may have worked -- if the rim looked like the coin was album toned, they may have holdered it.

Tonedbuff · March 30, 2007 6:32AM

While I LIKE the first pic better, I have to admit that the almost green look with that chocolate color around the revers does not feel natural to me. I've never seen that particular shade. So, pretty, but I can see them tossing it back. It looks like it survived the dip just fine. Since it is going in raw, I'll be interested to see the grade. Looks like a perfectly acceptible 64 to me though!

gyocomgd · March 30, 2007 8:00AM

<< I like the after picture. The before picture looks a little too odd for me.

So who will win the Masters this year? >>

Whoever it is, with a first prize of somewhere around $1.5 million, that person
could instantly buy one butt-kicking collection of buffernicks.

tahoe98 · March 30, 2007 9:14AM

i would have been mighty nervous doing what you have done,best of luck!

they are beauties!!

Shamika · March 31, 2007 4:38AM

I like the apple green color of the "before" coin. However, I would hesitate to buy it raw as I've never seen a 24-D that looked anything close to that. Either way, I would grade it 64 assuming the color was NT.

buffnut · March 31, 2007 7:13AM

I like the after better. That neon yellow/green tint could be original, but even if it is, it looks doctored to me. The second picture looks more like an album toned coin. Hopefully they will be kind to you if you resubmit. I would consider buying another collector's club subscription under an alias to see if that helps!

icsoccer · March 31, 2007 8:52AM

I would have been a buyer for the before, the after looks ok, but the before was wow in my book.

Gutsy move, best wishes on the slab.

gyocomgd · May 16, 2007 3:18PM

<< I like the after picture. The before picture looks a little too odd for me.

So who will win the Masters this year? >>

It's a long shot, but I'll take Zach Johnson, a relative unknown from Iowa.

AskRaq · May 16, 2007 3:27PM

Beautiful coin!! And the Indian looks much more serious now ~

Hoot · May 16, 2007 3:58PM

In the due course of time, I've seen quite a number of buffalo nickels toned with the same color and pattern that the coin originally displayed. I've seen these in every type of holder as well, from rattlers to green label holders, to more modern ones from PCGS. Also, I've seen quite a few in ANACS and NGC holders. Over time, many of these have been cracked and dipped, as people like the upgrades they get from improved luster and feel like the coin becomes more "plausible." I disagree with both notions, but that's just my personal taste. The current lack of coins toned in the way shown is more a matter of people receiving upgrades than it is seeking originality. And granted, PCGS and other services have turned negatively from a lot of toners, while at the same time it seems that it's a simple market reaction. So, as for getting the coin slabbed by PCGS, Guy, you made the necessary move.

For a 1924-D, the coin has significant detail. Even the weakness in strike of the bison's head and shoulder are not as great as many of the issue. Excellent central detail on the obverse, but with the odd lack of vertical impressions in the hair just above the knot. What appears as chatter in the high areas (obverse and reverse) is just the remnant of annealing marks from the planchet, incompletely struck. Terrific fields and very clean with no evident clash marks. E PLURIBUS UNUM is quite crisp, which is not true for later die state examples of the issue. Nice separation of fields, rims, and minor devices, with only a hint of incomplete separation of the F and S from the rim in the denominational epithet. Pretty coin for an ace collector.

Hoot

cape · May 16, 2007 8:40PM

guy, from experience dip ruins nickels no matter how much you dillute it. nice coin but they wont grade it better than a 63 . pcgs standards have increased lately!you should have left it alone and cracked it ,then send it raw. the original tone looked market acceptable!

zeus135 · May 16, 2007 8:46PM

I like the original coin MUCH better, and probably would have submitted it as it was. IF it came back in a BB, then I would have dipped it. Just my opinion, nice coin either way though.

Let us know what grade you get from PCGS.

coinkat · May 16, 2007 8:53PM

I like the before picture and I would have left it as is... good luck in your crossing efforts

icsoccer · May 16, 2007 9:53PM

You killed it! I loved the before (and would be a sure buyer). The after is just another 'plain' coin.
Toner's rule!
You are a risk taker for sure. Good luck!

jmj3esq · May 16, 2007 10:55PM

I would have tried to cross it at least one more time before I took the drastic measures that you took. That thing didn't look like it was too AT to not eventually find a home in a PCGS slab. Good luck!

ricko · May 16, 2007 11:03PM

The post-dip is a much nicer coin Guy...the detail and luster are very nice. I dislike toners, as most here know, and I think you may have a winner there... I am still amazed at how you find these beauties.... Cheers, RickO

PrivateCoinCollector · May 16, 2007 11:17PM

So you had to clean it to have a chance at getting original looking enough for the grading company to grade it. Hmm....Is this thing on?

Not saying I wouldn't do the same thing.

gyocomgd · May 17, 2007 12:10AM

<< guy, from experience dip ruins nickels no matter how much you dillute it. nice coin but they wont grade it better than a 63 . pcgs standards have increased lately!you should have left it alone and cracked it ,then send it raw. the original tone looked market acceptable!

>>

I don't understand your reasoning, Ed, and I say that respectfully.
If an ANACS-certified coin is deemed to be AT, then it would seem to me that it's chances if submitted raw would be even worse.

tahoe98 · May 17, 2007 1:35AM

<< Beautiful coin!! And the Indian looks much more serious now ~

>>

DJCoinz · May 17, 2007 1:41AM

I would have tried to submit it one more time...the before pics look original to me. Good luck crossing it.

dorkkarl · May 23, 2007 9:40PM

so let me see if i got this straight. you screwed w/ a perfectly nice coin - just because of PCGS registry set stupidity? what the he11 is wrong w/ you?

K S

LincolnCentMan · May 23, 2007 9:55PM

Man. The origional is something I'd set down and go through the budget to find some money for... the after shot is of a coin that has nothing special going for it. Total bummer.

-David

anablep · May 23, 2007 10:47PM

What a shame, you dipped a beautiful coin and turned it ordinary.

Who cares what PCGS says the grade is? Questionable toning? PCGS is single handedly ruining this hobby/industry by telling collectors what is acceptable.

That coin was gorgeous and now its not.

Aren't we supposed to be preserving the originality of these coins we have the pleasure of temporarily owning?

This is what happens when you play the crack-out/cross-over game. Usually, its the coin that loses.

JMHO.

Connecticoin · May 23, 2007 11:32PM

<< so let me see if i got this straight. you screwed w/ a perfectly nice coin - just because of PCGS registry set stupidity? what the he11 is wrong w/ you?

K S >>

hmm . . . . . you can type "ass" but cannot type "hell" ---- interesting.

Edit: I guess you CAN type "hell" --- why the "11"?

Interesting experience with a 1924-D Buffalo nickel

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