Let's start a new HOF Debate. Who among these guys gets in?
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Current players:
Biggio
Sheffield
Frank Thomas
Glavine
Manny Ramirez
Thome
Mussina
Schilling
Pedro
Nomar
I've intentionally excluded locks such as Clemens, Griffey Jr., Maddux, Rivera, etc. and avoided roided up clowns such as Bonds, Sosa, etc.
Ron
Biggio
Sheffield
Frank Thomas
Glavine
Manny Ramirez
Thome
Mussina
Schilling
Pedro
Nomar
I've intentionally excluded locks such as Clemens, Griffey Jr., Maddux, Rivera, etc. and avoided roided up clowns such as Bonds, Sosa, etc.
Ron
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports.
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Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
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Comments
Pedro and Nomar with a couple more strong years.
Sheffield - Nah. Good player though.
Frank Thomas - Most likely, but maybe not on first try.
Glavine - Yes
Manny Ramirez - Yes
Thome - Nah
Mussina - Nah
Schilling - Borderline. Not on first try and may take some campaigning.
Pedro - Yes
Nomar - Nah
Craig Biggio: Consistency, durability and longevity at three different positions (similar to Molitor).
Frank Thomas: The best unjuiced slugger of the era, plus 2 MVP awards. Gets minus points for being a DH, but still gets in.
Tom Glavine: Underrated. As solid as they come in the modern era.
Manny Ramírez: One of the 10 best RH hitters of all time.
Pedro Martínez: The best pitcher I have ever seen in person. If he had Clemens' build, he'd have won 400 games.
The others are certainly good players, but given the era of exploding offensive stats for hitters, Sheffield, Thome, and Nomar just haven't put up enough numbers. Mussina and Schilling haven't been dominant enough to merit consideration.
Sheffield-No
Frank Thomas-Yes
Glavine-Yes
Manny Ramirez-Yes
Thome-?
Mussina-No
Schilling-No
Pedro-Yes
Nomar-not unless he buys a ticket-not close at this point
I consider all my yes answers to be absolute locks except for Manny. I expect him to be in, the others are in if they retired to today. I believe everyone on the list has a decent shot except Nomar.
Sheffield - 500 Hr's would help, but I just don't think he was "that guy" enough to get in
Thomas is a lock if he gets to 500, if not then he's a "but he was dominate for x number of years" guy
Glavine - a possible 300 win pitcher in today's game is an absolute lock
Manny - Yes, one of the best hitters in the era, possibly ever
Thome - Maybe close. I think he has to get in the 550-600 hr's to get in. Not enough clout in other areas
Mussina - probably not, had the benefit of being on good teams and his ERA isn't that good
Schilling - If he gets in it will be from the K totals and the bloody sock, I say no for now
Pedro - Dominate pitcher who would get in if he quit now
Nomar - Noway unless he stays healthy and gets another 1,000 hits in the next 5 years. Then maybe
One thing...
I'm really disappointed in Nomar - I had higher expectations for him.
mike
Sheffield will be tough, I think, but if his career BA went over .300, it would help
Frank Thomas -- one more season like last, and I think he'll get in
Tom Glavine - yes
Manny Ramirez - yes
Jim Thome - with one or two more solid seasons, yes
Mike Mussina - probably not
Pedro - yes. I would consider him a lock.
Nomar - way too early to tell.
for the rest:
Biggio-yes
Sheffield-no
Frank Thomas-yes
Glavine-yes
Manny Ramirez-yes
Thome-no
Mussina-no
Schilling-yes
Pedro-yes
Nomar-no
Chipper-yes
Smoltz-yes
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
Dont forget The Big Unit!
<< <i>Lets throw in chipper jones and John smoltz also
for the rest:
Biggio-yes
Sheffield-no
Frank Thomas-yes
Glavine-yes
Manny Ramirez-yes
Thome-no
Mussina-no
Schilling-yes
Pedro-yes
Nomar-no
Chipper-yes
Smoltz-yes >>
I think both Smotz and Larry Wayne will be borderline guys that we will debate for years. I don't think either is clear cut at this time, however Chipper does have a few years left to pad his resume.
Sheffield-No
Frank Thomas-No
Glavine-No
Manny Ramirez-Yes
Thome-Yes
Mussina-No
Schilling-Yes
Pedro-Yes
Nomar-No
Sheffield-No
Frank Thomas-Yes, not on first ballot
Glavine-Lock
Manny Ramirez-Probably first ballot
Thome-Not yet, another 1-2 good years, maybe
Mussina-No
Schilling-Not enough complete, solid seasons
Pedro-Lock
Nomar-No
Anybody think Julio Franco deserves some consideration? Maybe just for longevity?
Sheffield - Better than average shot
Frank Thomas - Yes
Glavine - Yes
Manny Ramirez - Yes
Thome - Probably
Mussina - If he gets to 300, yes
Schilling - This year counts a lot, but probably
Pedro - Yes
Nomar - No
In addition to the no-brainers you listed, I'd also include Randy Johnson, Arod, Vladimir and Piazza.
Pudge, Hoffman, Pujols, Jeter and Ichiro will make it in too. Chipper's also got a good shot, as do Tejada and Smoltzy. If Santana continues his dominance, he'll be a first-ballot guy.
<< <i>Smoltz with one 20 win season in 18yrs? I'll pass. >>
See Dennis Eckersley.
<< <i>Anybody think Julio Franco deserves some consideration? >>
No way. Do you want to put Jesse Orosco in too?
Sheffield - No
Frank Thomas - Yes, but not 1st time
Glavine - Yes, probably 1st ballot
Manny Ramirez - Yes - 1st ballot
Thome - Yes - with 2 more solid years
Mussina - No
Schilling - No
Pedro - Yes 1st ballot
Nomar - No
<< <i>Smoltz with one 20 win season in 18yrs? I'll pass.
Dont forget The Big Unit! >>
Most wins in post season history and a dominant closer for a period of time will cancel this out.
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
With the advent of the Wild Card, post season stats have lost some of their luster.
I think Albert Belle should have had more consideration, but b/c the writers hated him he had no chance. He was a terror for his short career and played on very good teams.
Biggio - a lock assuming he gets to 3000.
Sheffield - Ugh. If he gets to 500, let the debate begin and I'm sure he'll tell you how good he was. I would vote no.
Frank Thomas - 500 homers gets him in. For a while, the most feared hitter in baseball.
Glavine - 300 gets him in.
Manny Ramirez - Yes, assuming he gets to 500 and doesn't pull any truly knuckleheaded stunts along the way. People overlook his hitting prowess sometimes; the guy can flat out rake.
Thome - I think he gets in with 500, certainly 550 homers. Kind of the Harmon Killebrew of our time, only a better overall hitter.
Mussina - doubtful. A very, very good pitcher however.
Schilling - I don't believe he has Hall worthy numbers, but the postseason adds to his lore and he may get in eventually.
Pedro - The Juan Marichal of our time, only better. In.
Nomar - no, unless he puts up some serious numbers over the next 3-5 years.
Others: Too early to tell on Jones. I don't think Smoltz gets in if Schilling doesn't. Pudge, Jeter, A-Fraud, Pujols, Clemens, Maddux, Griffey Jr., and Randy Johnson are all headed in the Hall's direction. Most of these guys are locks.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
Sheffield: depends on the steroids issue.
Frank Thomas: if he plays for 2 more years and puts up decent numbers, absolutely
Glavine: a lock.
Manny Ramirez: no doubt
Thome: classy guy, some superb numbers, a genuine steroid free slugger thats gonna club 500+ homers? a lock.
Mussina: nope, not gonna happen, never truly dominated
Schilling: borderline
Pedro: yup, a lock
Nomar: too many injuries, not evenclose
Sheffield - No
Frank Thomas - yes, eventually
Glavine - slam dunk
Manny Ramirez - slam dunk
Thome - yes if he gets to 550 HR
Mussina - yes, if 300 wins and/or 3000 SO but not looking good; no multiple 20 win seasons hurt
Schilling - no; too many injuries
Pedro - slam dunk
Nomar - yes but needs another 4 or 5 years and a LT BA over 300
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
Baseball-reference has him compared to the following
Miguel Tejada (850)
Chick Hafey (841) *
Ken Williams (835)
Magglio Ordonez (823)
Wally Berger (815)
Scott Rolen (804)
Jackie Robinson (802) *
Rich Aurilia (799)
Hack Wilson (794) *
Travis Jackson (790) *
Biggio was not dominant, but he played everyday, was rarely hurt and was the picture of consistency.
Look at who baseball-reference has Biggio compared with...pretty good company
Robin Yount (831) *
Joe Morgan (817) *
Roberto Alomar (816)
Lou Whitaker (776)
Paul Molitor (776) *
Ryne Sandberg (765) *
Cal Ripken (753) *
Charlie Gehringer (751) *
Brooks Robinson (741) *
Vada Pinson (732)
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
No one else matters
<< <i>Not for sure about Thome, who has "bulked" up since he came into the league. Thome does not look defined like a Sosa, Bonds or McGwire...Thome just looks thick and big >>
Thome has definitely put on a lot of weight. But nobody ever accused Rafael Palmeiro or Jason Grimsley of being body builders, but look at what we found out.
Unfortunately, nobody is safe from the steroid/HGH cloud in baseball's steroid era.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
drugs of choice
NHL hall of fame rookies
drugs of choice
NHL hall of fame rookies
Santana needs about 7 to 10 more years at his current pace and he could be in
<< <i>one more...now that he is retired...Bagwell? >>
He was always one of my favorites. Unfortunately I don't quite think he has enough to get in. If anything he should get bonus points for being able to hit anything with that goofy a$$ swing.
drugs of choice
NHL hall of fame rookies
drugs of choice
NHL hall of fame rookies
Juan Marichal (915) *
Jack Morris (873)
Clark Griffith (869) *
Bob Welch (867)
Carl Hubbell (860) *
Curt Schilling (857)
Tom Glavine (857)
Jim Bunning (854) *
Bob Gibson (850) *
Kevin Brown (847)
300 wins will not be the magical number for modern pitchers like it was in the days of 4 man rotations. I think any pitcher who started in the 1990's and gets to 250 wins will be a strong contender for the Hall. He had a strong last season with a 3.51 ERA and was top 10 in ERA, WHIP, SO/9 and SO. Also the 20 win number is just a number it's like saying Aaron didn't have enough 50 or 60 HR seasons. He did have 7 years of 17 or more wins. Wins again are overated as the team and other players really affect that number.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
Sheffield - it wold take a weaker than averaage ballot
Frank Thomas - Yes, definite
Glavine - Yes
Manny Ramirez - Yes
Thome - it would take monster HR #'s (600)
Mussina - not likely
Schilling - I'd go with Schilling over Mussina - he has that magic Series moment like Brooks Robby over Reds in 1970
Pedro - Yes
Nomar - Not unless he finishes career like his 1st 9 years instead of last few
<< <i>
<< <i>one more...now that he is retired...Bagwell? >>
He was always one of my favorites. Unfortunately I don't quite think he has enough to get in. If anything he should get bonus points for being able to hit anything with that goofy a$$ swing. >>
Are you talking about the squatting to take a poo stance?
He should get in the Hall but unfortunately, he will proabably get grouped with steriod users.
It's a shame but it is what it is.
<< <i>Biggio has 2930 hits....I agree he is a lock, just not sure about 1st ballot >>
Look at all the other 3,000 hit guys who've been inducted recently. Murray, Brett, Yount, Molitor, Boggs, Ripken and Winfield. They were all first ballot inductees. I think the first one to break this string will be Palmeiro. Biggio's dominance at his position (2B) will also help his cause - not that you really need anything on top on 3,000 hits. I just can't see him not being inducted first ballot. Heck, if he's not, I'll send each member of this board a crisp $1 bill.
<< <i>Bagwell was nothing more than Dave Kingman with a funny stance >>
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
<< <i>Bagwell was nothing more than Dave Kingman with a funny stance >>
Except that Bagwell could hit for average, extra base hits that weren't home runs, take a walk, be a 30-30 1st baseman, and I think he even won a GG. You're right, other than that they were identical.
My own thought is Bagwell was good, great at times, but not a HOF
HOF Monitor (where > 100 is likely HOFer) for players not yet eligible:
345 B. Bonds
266 A. Rodriguez
212 I. Rodriguez
209 K. Griffey Jr.
205 M. Piazza
193 R. Alomar
192 D. Jeter
191 S. Sosa
186 R. Henderson
184 F. Thomas
182 M. Ramirez
180 R. Palmiero
163 V. Guerrero
161 T. Helton
154 A. Pujols
149 J. Bagwell
147 L. Walker
145 C. Biggio
145 I. Suzuki
133 B. Williams
132 G. Sheffield
131 E. Martinez
128 C. Jones
127 J. Thome
120 N. Garciaperra
120 J. Gonzalez
118 B. Larkin
114 A. Galarraga
108 O. Vizquel
103 J. Kent
100 C. Delgado
100 A. Jones
100 F. McGriff
HOF Monitor for pitchers not yet eligible:
326 R. Clemens
320 R. Jones
241 G. Maddux
193 P. Martinez
173 M. Rivera
167 C. Schilling
166 T. Glavine
142 J. Smoltz
132 T. Hoffman
124 J. Franco
109 M. Mussina
103 D. Cone
103 J. Mesa
bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets