“Unless you are putting together a date set, focus on the rare dates for each series”—today’s Doug W
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I copied and pasted the latest Doug Winter blog below (CCU—please close your eyes 
). He raises some interesting points, and I have the following comments:
(1) I agree that photogenic coins sell, but of equal importance is the quality of the photographs on a dealer’s site. Time and time again we’ve heard about how lousy the pictures are in a particular auction firm’s catalogs and website. The same holds true for dealers. Like it or not, the first thing I do is view the description of the coin, and then immediately click on the picture. The picture either “does it for me” or it does not, literally in a split second. A quality photographer who takes great pictures will pay for himself many times over.
(2) I agree that the Sweet Spot coins on the DW site sell quickly. As indicated above, I tend to look at the descriptions and then the pictures, and the price as a third consideration. If I get over the first two hurdles (or if I don’t), then I go on to consider the price (or not).
(3) From what I read in Section 5 below, it does not seem that many people today collect date sets. I am not sure why this is the case. I would think there is a set premium, especially if the entire collection is choice. However, the comment below seems to indicate that a collection of rare dates is a better approach, because the common dates can always be obtained. Do you agree?
(4) If ubiquitous coins are hard to sell, I assume that reinforces the point above that only rare coins should be collected.
***************************************************
October 23, 2006
In the last five years, my website raregoldcoins.com has become a primary focus in my business. It has been interesting to observe which coins sell the most quickly and why, in my opinion, they do. I’d like to pass on some of the lessons I’ve learned as I believe it will help you make better decisions when it comes to your collection.
1. Photogenic coins sell. In this instance the term “photogenic” is interchangeable with the more numismatic term “eye appeal.” When I buy a coin which has really pretty color or which has great luster or which has a very sharp strike (or, better yet, a combination of all these attributes) I can be reasonably certain the coin will sell well. If a coin has a glaring negative attribute that is readily apparent in an image, it is likely to be a hard sell. As an example, an otherwise nice coin which has a large grease spot on Liberty’s cheek will be hard to sell, even if the coin is quite rare. When you are putting together a collection, buy coins that are pretty.
2. Coins in the right pricing “sweet spot” sell. For me, this pricing zone is in the $2,500 to $7,500 range. There are coin dealers who seem to be able to sell lots of $25,000+ coins. (I certainly sell my fair share of them). But once you get past $10,000 or so, the air gets pretty thin in most series and liquidity drops. That’s why I like interesting coins in the $2,500-7,500 range. They are generally quite liquid and I can turn over my inventory alot more quickly when I’m selling coins in this price range then when I’m selling more expensive coins. Let me add that I have no problem with buying expensive coins but that my resistance level increases based on the series. In other words, with early gold coins, there are virtually no decent pieces available in the $2,500-7,500 and I would expand this sweet spot to $10,000-20,000. But with Charlotte, Dahlonega and New Orleans issues, I feel that there is excellent value in the lower price range(s) and my focus shifts accordingly. I will certainly buy a $20,000 Charlotte or Dahlonega coin but it has to be pretty special to get me interested.
3. Interesting coins sell. People like coins which can be summarized in a few words or less. The 1838-C half eagle is popular because it’s a first year of issue and it’s the only Classic Head half eagle from the Charlotte mint. Even if you aren’t a specialist in Charlotte coinage, you are likely to quickly discern the appeal of this coin. In the same series, an 1844-C half eagle may not be as easy to sell. It is clearly a scarcer date than the 1838-C but its range of appeal is limited to collectors who specialize in Charlotte gold coinage; whereas the 1838-C might appeal to type collectors, date collectors and people who just like neat coins. There are other “neatness factors” that appeal to collectors: very low mintage figures, unusual designs, key date status, good pedigrees and large size are all positive attributes. If a coin which I am being offered for sale has one or more of these attributes, the chances are good that I will add it to my inventory. A collection that contains interesting coins is a collection that I would be very pleased to purchase from its owner.
4. Coins have to be properly priced. In this day and age, it is reasonably easy for a collector to determine how much the last four AU55 1840-0 quarter eagles have brought at auction. If I price a coin comparably to these four auction records (and it is a decent looking piece) the chances are good that it will sell. If I price my coin at 50% more than the last four records, it won’t sell. Now there are exceptions to this rule. Coins that do not trade regularly at auction (like the same 1840-O quarter eagle but in MS63) are much harder to price. And certain coins (like an 1880-O eagle in AU50 or better grades) are clearly undervalued and are worth more than most published pricing guides suggest.
5. Rare coins sell. This sounds obvious but it is a point that needs to be reiterated. Whenever I list a really rare coin for sale (like an 1861-D gold dollar, an 1847-O half eagle or an 1870-CC eagle) it sells quickly and receives multiple enquiries. People want to own rare coins, especially if they are attractive and fairly priced. If I had to choose between, say, an 1870-CC eagle in EF45 and an 1873-CC eagle in AU55 (an issue which is rarer than the 1870-CC in higher grade yet priced comparably) I would always choose the former. Unless you are putting together a date set, focus on the rare dates for each series.
So what doesn’t sell? Obviously, I don’t go out and try to purchase coins for my inventory that are going to sit around for months and stagnate. But there are patterns I see on my website and these are patterns which you should avoid when assembling your collection:
1. No matter how rare the coin, certain series are really hard to sell. An example of this would be Liberty Head San Francisco eagles. Even if I have a really attractive, fairly priced example of a very rare issue like an 1863-S this is a hard coin to sell unless I happen to be working with a specialist collector who needs this specific date. I try to avoid thin, highly specialized markets.
2. Even if they are cheap, I avoid ugly coins. On more than one occasion, I’ve bought a coin at auction because it’s been too cheap to resist. But it’s been cheap for a good reason: it has heavily abraded surfaces or it is obviously scrubbed or it is very poorly struck. You get what you pay for and if you are buying coins based solely on price, you are destined to have a collection full of duds.
3. Ubiquitous coins are hard to sell as well. If I listed a bunch of common and semi-common Liberty Head half eagles or had a long list of common Saint Gaudens double eagles, the chances are good that they wouldn’t sell, even if they were genuinely nice coins for the grade or if they were priced competitively. Buyers go on my website looking for rare gold coins. You are building a rare coin collection. Always keep the word “rare” in mind when you are considering adding a coin to your set.
Doug Winter
10/23/06
www.raregoldcoins.com
For more information about United States gold coinage please contact me at dwn@ont.com
). He raises some interesting points, and I have the following comments:(1) I agree that photogenic coins sell, but of equal importance is the quality of the photographs on a dealer’s site. Time and time again we’ve heard about how lousy the pictures are in a particular auction firm’s catalogs and website. The same holds true for dealers. Like it or not, the first thing I do is view the description of the coin, and then immediately click on the picture. The picture either “does it for me” or it does not, literally in a split second. A quality photographer who takes great pictures will pay for himself many times over.
(2) I agree that the Sweet Spot coins on the DW site sell quickly. As indicated above, I tend to look at the descriptions and then the pictures, and the price as a third consideration. If I get over the first two hurdles (or if I don’t), then I go on to consider the price (or not).
(3) From what I read in Section 5 below, it does not seem that many people today collect date sets. I am not sure why this is the case. I would think there is a set premium, especially if the entire collection is choice. However, the comment below seems to indicate that a collection of rare dates is a better approach, because the common dates can always be obtained. Do you agree?
(4) If ubiquitous coins are hard to sell, I assume that reinforces the point above that only rare coins should be collected.
***************************************************
October 23, 2006
In the last five years, my website raregoldcoins.com has become a primary focus in my business. It has been interesting to observe which coins sell the most quickly and why, in my opinion, they do. I’d like to pass on some of the lessons I’ve learned as I believe it will help you make better decisions when it comes to your collection.
1. Photogenic coins sell. In this instance the term “photogenic” is interchangeable with the more numismatic term “eye appeal.” When I buy a coin which has really pretty color or which has great luster or which has a very sharp strike (or, better yet, a combination of all these attributes) I can be reasonably certain the coin will sell well. If a coin has a glaring negative attribute that is readily apparent in an image, it is likely to be a hard sell. As an example, an otherwise nice coin which has a large grease spot on Liberty’s cheek will be hard to sell, even if the coin is quite rare. When you are putting together a collection, buy coins that are pretty.
2. Coins in the right pricing “sweet spot” sell. For me, this pricing zone is in the $2,500 to $7,500 range. There are coin dealers who seem to be able to sell lots of $25,000+ coins. (I certainly sell my fair share of them). But once you get past $10,000 or so, the air gets pretty thin in most series and liquidity drops. That’s why I like interesting coins in the $2,500-7,500 range. They are generally quite liquid and I can turn over my inventory alot more quickly when I’m selling coins in this price range then when I’m selling more expensive coins. Let me add that I have no problem with buying expensive coins but that my resistance level increases based on the series. In other words, with early gold coins, there are virtually no decent pieces available in the $2,500-7,500 and I would expand this sweet spot to $10,000-20,000. But with Charlotte, Dahlonega and New Orleans issues, I feel that there is excellent value in the lower price range(s) and my focus shifts accordingly. I will certainly buy a $20,000 Charlotte or Dahlonega coin but it has to be pretty special to get me interested.
3. Interesting coins sell. People like coins which can be summarized in a few words or less. The 1838-C half eagle is popular because it’s a first year of issue and it’s the only Classic Head half eagle from the Charlotte mint. Even if you aren’t a specialist in Charlotte coinage, you are likely to quickly discern the appeal of this coin. In the same series, an 1844-C half eagle may not be as easy to sell. It is clearly a scarcer date than the 1838-C but its range of appeal is limited to collectors who specialize in Charlotte gold coinage; whereas the 1838-C might appeal to type collectors, date collectors and people who just like neat coins. There are other “neatness factors” that appeal to collectors: very low mintage figures, unusual designs, key date status, good pedigrees and large size are all positive attributes. If a coin which I am being offered for sale has one or more of these attributes, the chances are good that I will add it to my inventory. A collection that contains interesting coins is a collection that I would be very pleased to purchase from its owner.
4. Coins have to be properly priced. In this day and age, it is reasonably easy for a collector to determine how much the last four AU55 1840-0 quarter eagles have brought at auction. If I price a coin comparably to these four auction records (and it is a decent looking piece) the chances are good that it will sell. If I price my coin at 50% more than the last four records, it won’t sell. Now there are exceptions to this rule. Coins that do not trade regularly at auction (like the same 1840-O quarter eagle but in MS63) are much harder to price. And certain coins (like an 1880-O eagle in AU50 or better grades) are clearly undervalued and are worth more than most published pricing guides suggest.
5. Rare coins sell. This sounds obvious but it is a point that needs to be reiterated. Whenever I list a really rare coin for sale (like an 1861-D gold dollar, an 1847-O half eagle or an 1870-CC eagle) it sells quickly and receives multiple enquiries. People want to own rare coins, especially if they are attractive and fairly priced. If I had to choose between, say, an 1870-CC eagle in EF45 and an 1873-CC eagle in AU55 (an issue which is rarer than the 1870-CC in higher grade yet priced comparably) I would always choose the former. Unless you are putting together a date set, focus on the rare dates for each series.
So what doesn’t sell? Obviously, I don’t go out and try to purchase coins for my inventory that are going to sit around for months and stagnate. But there are patterns I see on my website and these are patterns which you should avoid when assembling your collection:
1. No matter how rare the coin, certain series are really hard to sell. An example of this would be Liberty Head San Francisco eagles. Even if I have a really attractive, fairly priced example of a very rare issue like an 1863-S this is a hard coin to sell unless I happen to be working with a specialist collector who needs this specific date. I try to avoid thin, highly specialized markets.
2. Even if they are cheap, I avoid ugly coins. On more than one occasion, I’ve bought a coin at auction because it’s been too cheap to resist. But it’s been cheap for a good reason: it has heavily abraded surfaces or it is obviously scrubbed or it is very poorly struck. You get what you pay for and if you are buying coins based solely on price, you are destined to have a collection full of duds.
3. Ubiquitous coins are hard to sell as well. If I listed a bunch of common and semi-common Liberty Head half eagles or had a long list of common Saint Gaudens double eagles, the chances are good that they wouldn’t sell, even if they were genuinely nice coins for the grade or if they were priced competitively. Buyers go on my website looking for rare gold coins. You are building a rare coin collection. Always keep the word “rare” in mind when you are considering adding a coin to your set.
Doug Winter
10/23/06
www.raregoldcoins.com
For more information about United States gold coinage please contact me at dwn@ont.com
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
Comments
<< <i>(3) From what I read in Section 5 below, it does not seem that many people today collect date sets. I am not sure why this is the case. I would think there is a set premium, especially if the entire collection is choice. However, the comment below seems to indicate that a collection of rare dates is a better approach, because the common dates can always be obtained. Do you agree? >>
I'm not sure I follow your logic...I do disagree, to a certain extent, with your conclusion ("it does not seem that many people today collect date sets"), nor am I sure that Dave's point in #5 is that a collectoin of rare dates is better. IMHO, he's simply stating that "rare coins sell" and perhaps reinforcing the "buy the tough dates first" mantra. In fact, his title indicates this -- "Unless you are putting together a date set..."
As an aside, Dave's suggestions seem to neglect a significant portion of the market -- type set collectors. Much of his recommendations seem to fly in the face of the type collector's acquisition strategy -- find a common date and buy the nicest one you can. This, perhaps, makes sense as most of Dave's inventory are typically the more esoteric issues, but I think that much of his advise is not directed at type collectors...Mike
1) I agree. Better to have no photograph than a lousy or unflattering one. Nice photos do indeed sell coins.
2) There is no question in my mind that there is a point of price resistance in each series and in each grade range.
3) There is rarely a "set premium" per se, but if one assembles a nice, high quality set, I think that the level of interest in all of the coins is raised and the coins (both the easy ones and the tough ones) will sell quickly for strong money.
I also like the idea of picking of rare, key, and interesting dates in series that I do not collect by date. I have done this in my collection and will continue to do so, despite my current focus on southern gold half eagles.
4) I think that DW is speaking as a dealer of rare date gold coins to other collectors of rare date gold coins. Ubiquitous coins (ie. Saints and Morgans) do sell, but this is not his bailiwick and tends not to be that of his clientele, either.
First and foremost, I believe that collectors should collect whatever they care to. However, whatever they buy, I hope they make informed decisions. That said, for those who are not putting together date sets, I think they are often better off buying a more common/less expensive and/or higher grade example, as opposed to a rare date. That enables them to obtain a higher grade coin and/or to have additional funds to acquire other coins they want.
<< <i><< However, the comment below seems to indicate that a collection of rare dates is a better approach, because the common dates can always be obtained. Do you agree?>>
First and foremost, I believe that collectors should collect whatever they care to. However, whatever they buy, I hope they make informed decisions. That said, for those who are not putting together date sets, I think they are often better off buying a more common/less expensive and/or higher grade example, as opposed to a rare date. That enables them to obtain a higher grade coin and/or to have additional funds to acquire other coins they want. >>
I agree that we should collect whatever we want, and my approach is the exact opposite of your recommendation and will always be. For me, the rare coins are much cooler, and this is what drives my collecting interest. I would rather have my 1854-D $3 in XF-45 than an 1878 $3 in MS-65 for the same approximate price. I would rather have my 1870-CC $5 in VF-35 than an 1891-CC $5 in MS-64 for the same approximate price and so on and so forth.
This applies to rare and key date coins as well. If everyone buys nothing but rare dates and key dates, the price of those will be pushed to speculative levels. In the mean time the so-called generics will languish.
There is really nothing wrong with generic coins. They are certainly a far better buy than the whizzed, damaged and overgraded junk that I see people buying at small shows. "Cheap" is not an indicator that you are getting a good buy. Quite often it's the area where dealers' "service charges" (marke-ups) are high and the true value is really quite low. But it's hard to get people to listen at the small shows. They go along buying cheap junk, non the wiser, until it comes time to sell. THEN they learn that they have been had or morelly likely have "had" themselves.
Believe it or not there still are a lot of the collectors out there who want to assemble the classic eight or twelve piece gold coin type sets. As the new collectors mature from state quarters and other modern series that drew them to the hobby, they will take an interest in these as well.
Very few people are going to go to the Doug Winter web site to find common date type coins. If they are smart they will got to regional or national show and select the conservatively graded, nice eye appeal coins that are still out there. That’s where you will find true values.
It’s also interesting to note that the new “sweet spot” is now $2,500 to $7,500. In the good old days it was $500 to $2,500. I guess we can call that phenomenon “inflation.”
At shows, what do people ask for most:
16-D Dimes, 1909-S VDB Cents, 1893-S Morgans...you get the picture.
How many times can you go to a show and find a nice 81-S or 82-S Morgan???? Almost every table.
When you are putting together a set, what do you struggle finding??? The tougher dates. Why??? Because you don't have enough coins to choose from, so you end up buying whatever is available.
If you start with the better dates, can't you ALWAYS and very quickly add the common date coins to finish the set????
OK.....we are all collectors at heart, so getting more coins is fun. We enjoy that. I think that's Mark's sentiments. But buy the best you can afford.
All that said, a nice eye appealing coin, no matter how common, always seems to sell. (Super PQ)
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>“Unless you are putting together a date set, focus on the rare dates for each series” >>
Isn't that what saintguru has been saying for some time? Seems that is the main point of his posts and collection efforts lately.
Like this one.
Date Set
2. Agreed but still mostly out of my range.
3. Disagree--A lot of people collect date sets--common dates can be gotton almost anywhere at anytime, while some of the rare dates in desirable grades can usually only be found in specialists cases. Seated coins come to mind here.
4. Very true.
That said, for those who are not putting together date sets, I think they are often better off buying a more common/less expensive and/or higher grade example, as opposed to a rare date. That enables them to obtain a higher grade coin and/or to have additional funds to acquire other coins they want.
I have to disagree with Mark on this (first time). Rare dates are always more desirable and always will be. I think it is far better to put an XF or AU 1912-S V-nickel in your type set then any other date. A Key date type set will be much more awesome than a common date type set in the same grade.
As for coins in the $2500-$7500 range, these are mostly out of the league of the average collector. JMHO. Bob
This sweet spot shows that immediately.....
Collect for enjoyment first, profit second.....
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
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"Sou Mangueira......."
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923