Recent big ticket toned coins on Ebay

Kimchee · October 23, 2006 5:43AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220037186663&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220037185762&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220037185843&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012

Are these types of coins fetching similar prices at Heritage or show auctions?

Kimchee

MikeInFL · October 23, 2006 5:45AM

First auction linkified.

The seller is a member here, IIRC, and the photos are, IMHO, doctored through saturation enhancement. That being said, the prices seem high although the coins seem NT...Mike

coinguy1 · October 23, 2006 5:46AM

The prices might have been high, but I don't think those coins are AT.

ABC123 · October 23, 2006 5:47AM

Beautiful AT's *

CoinRaritiesOnline · October 23, 2006 5:57AM

They all look NT to me.

SkyMan · October 23, 2006 6:49AM

<< 

Are these types of coins fetching similar prices at Heritage or show auctions?

>>

Toners can get fairly dramatic price swings at auctions depending on if you have two people that really like the same look. That said, depending what the coins look like in hand, the 3 ending bid figures on the coins would be well within norms for common date MS 65* coins.

Kimchee · October 23, 2006 6:55AM

My opologies to the seller for thinking these looked AT; I'm quite a newb at buying and judging toned vs. AT coins.

Kimchee

Connecticoin · October 23, 2006 7:29AM

All NT.

The rumors of the death of the toned coin market have been greatly exaggerated.

notwilight · October 23, 2006 7:41AM

<< My opologies to the seller for thinking these looked AT; I'm quite a newb at buying and judging toned vs. AT coins. Kimchee >>

Don't apologize. Nobody knows for sure except perhaps the guy who did the AT (if applicable). We tend to determine whether a coin is AT or NT by the pedigree, rather than the looks so if you don't know the pedigree, you shouldn't feel bad. --Jerry

AZLARRY · October 23, 2006 1:20PM

That is a great looking Morgan, three different bidders bid over a grand.

Myqqy · October 23, 2006 1:38PM

Beautiful AT's *

uofa1285 · October 23, 2006 2:07PM

under 1,600 was a bargain for that Moose toned Morgan...congrats Lloyd!

Doug

ColonialCoinUnion · October 23, 2006 2:21PM

<< Don't apologize. Nobody knows for sure except perhaps the guy who did the AT (if applicable).--Jerry >>

I respectfully but totally disagree with Jerry here -

Not only should Kimchee apologize, he should edit his original post and remove the offending langauge.

It is not right to link an auction and imply / suggest / infer that the items are AT and the prices are insane, particularly when you have no idea what you are talking about.

80sJunkie · October 23, 2006 3:58PM

Dog97 · October 23, 2006 4:42PM

Mr. Dick simply sells what you guys send him to sell. Looks like he does a good job of it too.

morgannut2 · October 23, 2006 5:11PM

<< 

<< Don't apologize. Nobody knows for sure except perhaps the guy who did the AT (if applicable).--Jerry >>

I respectfully but totally disagree with Jerry here -

Not only should Kimchee apologize, he should edit his original post and remove the offending langauge.

It is not right to link an auction and imply / suggest / infer that the items are AT and the prices are insane, particularly when you have no idea what you are talking about. >>

----
--------------------------I have the highest respect for many Colonial coin specialists to ascertain AT/NT issues OR other possible old problems. The fact is thy do have a good "eye" when deciding whether about much quetionable 1774-1827silver coin material. BUT__BUT!!!!
--------The odds are generally their favor : : : I statistically ascertaind that MORE THAN 60% of the older bust mareial out of the first 100 coins "were
decscribed in the writing of STACKS as having concerns (kokdo's for their honesrty!!) and in FACT been everything fron ":lightly wiped", to cleaned" , "to gently hailined",
to one case----- actually "whized!" (a rare coin, to be sure--and worth collecting). --
---------------------------
--------------------------
That said, I find it offensive for anyone to arbitrarily decide some coin image is or isn't :natural"--especially based on Ebay's "fine award winning" photos!!!!!!!!!!!!!. The citations by StacK's were be EXPERTS WITH MANY YEARS EXPERIENCE----and THEY WERE LOOKING AT THE ACTUAL COIN!!!! Not some photo shop POS stuck randomly on Ebay and arbitarily called "insanely priced" with ZERO IDEA about pricing-- or originality--- or maybe ALL COINS!!

7Jaguars · October 23, 2006 11:13PM

I can see the chemistry ignorati are out in force again, AT period but go ahead and spend your money on such. If I was still at the University I would crack one of these out and run a surface spectroscopy and end the nonsense - maybe someone with such could do us all a favor.

BlindedByEgo · October 24, 2006 12:30AM

<< I can see the chemistry ignorati are out in force again, AT period but go ahead and spend your money on such. If I was still at the University I would crack one of these out and run a surface spectroscopy and end the nonsense - maybe someone with such could do us all a favor. >>

Hey, everyone! A new toning expert!

LeeG · October 24, 2006 12:39AM

Let's revisit this post

Let's think about it

coinguy1 · October 24, 2006 12:41AM

<< I can see the chemistry ignorati are out in force again, AT period but go ahead and spend your money on such. If I was still at the University I would crack one of these out and run a surface spectroscopy and end the nonsense - maybe someone with such could do us all a favor. >>

Care to back up your insulting proclamation with some facts? If not, it is my opinion that you should state your OPINIONS as such, and not be so rude.

HighRelief · October 24, 2006 1:45AM

Nice looking toners, they look like the real thing to me.

Russ · October 24, 2006 1:50AM

<< << I can see the chemistry ignorati are out in force again, AT period but go ahead and spend your money on such. If I was still at the University I would crack one of these out and run a surface spectroscopy and end the nonsense - maybe someone with such could do us all a favor. >>

Care to back up your insulting proclamation with some facts? If not, it is my opinion that you should state your OPINIONS as such, and not be so rude. >>

I predict that either a) He can't do that, or b) He won't be back to try.

Russ, NCNE

bestclser1 · October 24, 2006 2:44AM

Always amazes me when people bash beautiful NT Morgans.Of course some have never seen any either.

7Jaguars · October 24, 2006 3:24AM

Coin guy, you really are ignorant and I am not calling names; I will not tell you any more than that I do have three college degrees. You are a fool if you are buying such coins but I congratulate you if you are selling such bits.

Always amazing how stuck pigs howl the loudest!

Read my response fully unless you are too pigheaded to do so. A sufrace spec. run on this or similar coins are likely to reveal sulfa-compound oxidation(s). Actually I do have back ground to make such statements and such coins would be AT until proven otherwise.

I agree with HighRelief - nice looking toners are just that.

coinguy1 · October 24, 2006 3:33AM

<< Coin guy, you really are ignorant and I am not calling names; I will not tell you any more than that I do have three college degrees. You are a fool if you are buying such coins but I congratulate you if you are selling such bits.

Always amazing how stuck pigs howl the loudest!

Read my response fully unless you are too pigheaded to do so. A sufrace spec. run on this or similar coins are likely to reveal sulfa-compound oxidation(s). Actually I do have back ground to make such statements and such coins would be AT until proven otherwise.

I agree with HighRelief - nice looking toners are just that. >>

I read your "response fully". Not surprisingly, you have proved nothing.

pharmer · October 24, 2006 3:34AM

How about we just let this go, folks. Things have been nice lately, and the thread author issued his mea culpas.

DeusExMachina · October 24, 2006 3:36AM

"I will not tell you any more than that I do have three college degrees."

Let me guess, one is a PhD? (Piled higher and Deeper).

ColonialCoinUnion · October 24, 2006 3:37AM

<< A sufrace spec. run on this or similar coins are likely to reveal sulfa-compound oxidation(s). >>

Ha! First the guy tells us that these coins are "AT period", then says they are 'likely to reveal' sulfa-compund oxidation.

Does that mean they 'might be AT period'? So then, they might not be, right? In other words, you have no idea, right?

TorinoCobra71 · October 24, 2006 4:59AM

Toners are STILL going for Stupid Money.......

TorinoCobra71

Russ · October 24, 2006 5:08AM

<< I will not tell you any more than that I do have three college degrees. >>

Well, bunky, that and $15 will buy you a circulated Morgan.

Russ, NCNE

BlindedByEgo · October 24, 2006 1:19PM

<< Coin guy, you really are ignorant and I am not calling names; I will not tell you any more than that I do have three college degrees. You are a fool if you are buying such coins but I congratulate you if you are selling such bits.

Always amazing how stuck pigs howl the loudest!

Read my response fully unless you are too pigheaded to do so. A sufrace spec. run on this or similar coins are likely to reveal sulfa-compound oxidation(s). Actually I do have back ground to make such statements and such coins would be AT until proven otherwise.

I agree with HighRelief - nice looking toners are just that. >>

I have four. Neener.

Coinguy, don't you have like 2 1/2 big ones? (Degrees, I mean)

Heh. Whatta maroon.

Leiana · October 24, 2006 1:27PM

<< A sufrace spec. run on this or similar coins are likely to reveal sulfa-compound oxidation(s). Actually I do have back ground to make such statements and such coins would be AT until proven otherwise. >>

Don't ALL toned coins have sulphide oxidations?

I believe the equation goes something like this: 4Ag + O2 + 2H2O + 2Na2S ---> 2Ag2S + 4NaOH (sorry, don't know how to type subscripts).

I don't even have a college degree.

-Amanda

roadrunner · October 24, 2006 1:44PM

will not tell you any more than that I do have three college degrees. You are a fool if you are buying such coins but I congratulate you if you are selling such bits......actually I do have back ground to make such statements and such coins would be AT until proven otherwise

That must mean Mr. 3 degrees must have been a coin grader and or coin doctor in the recent past. In case he didn't notice, college degrees have relatively little to do with one's expertise in determining AT coins. Now that he has told us what is irrelevant to the area of coin expertise, maybe he'll provide something relevant.
I don't think having a chemistry degree implies you can ferret out AT coins better than a top grader w/o such a degree. Degrees come in all shapes and sizes. I once knew a guy with a master's in chemistry that was seriously challenged in the sciences. Not sure how he ever got as far as he did.

If you give me the option of using a guy with 3 degrees or a 20 year coin doctor with "just" a high school education to render an opinion on a toned coin, it's obvious who wins. Give a TPG the same option, they'd go the same way.

roadrunner

Dog97 · October 24, 2006 1:49PM

I don't have any college degrees but I could say I do and you people would never know any better & I don't have any sulphide oxidation equations to support me but I find it strange that a coin that is heavily toned on one side will be pure blast white on ther other side. It seems like at least a little of the sulphide oxidation would had oxidized right around the rim onto the peripheral on the other side, even if the coin was perfectly in line with and perfectly flat on top of another coin.
But I have discussed this with dealers, collectors and even a former NGC grader that howls like a stuck pig who inform me that I'm full of pooey.

FatMan · October 24, 2006 1:55PM

My non-degreed opinion is these are very nice NT coins.

notwilight · October 24, 2006 2:01PM

<< 

<< Coin guy, you really are ignorant and I am not calling names; I will not tell you any more than that I do have three college degrees. You are a fool if you are buying such coins but I congratulate you if you are selling such bits. Always amazing how stuck pigs howl the loudest! Read my response fully unless you are too pigheaded to do so. A sufrace spec. run on this or similar coins are likely to reveal sulfa-compound oxidation(s). Actually I do have back ground to make such statements and such coins would be AT until proven otherwise. I agree with HighRelief - nice looking toners are just that. >>

I have four. Neener. Coinguy, don't you have like 2 1/2 big ones? (Degrees, I mean) Heh. Whatta maroon. >>

Don't call him a Maroon, I'm a Maroon. Yes, that is the silly mascot of the University of Chicago (BA Physics, 1980). He is correct, however, he will find evidense of sulfides of silver. However, he will find these whether it is AT or NT, the chemistry is the same. --Jerry

Dog97 · October 24, 2006 2:29PM

<<<Heh. Whatta maroon. >>>
Sheesh, coinboy, you gonna let that guy call you a purple?

cape · October 24, 2006 8:20PM

im tired of reading all these stupid threads ! who cares whether it is real or not . you can either leave it or buy it. remember folks, dick only lists coins from different consigners and you dont have to bid. to come on here and blast away cant help this guys business. time to move on from is this nt or at. its more like, i like it or not.

Sunnywood · October 24, 2006 9:14PM

AT vs. NT can be very difficult to discern for some coins ... but NOT for bag-toned Morgans. The classic thin-film color progressions are in full evidence on all three of these coins. it is most obvious on the first one, but if you know what to look for, it is equally obvious on the other two. For example, check out the slim reverse crescent on the third coin.

I don't mean to be rude, but anyone who insists that these coins are AT is simply dead wrong, and has not studied toned Morgans. Recognizing the progression is easy in some cases (like the first coin posted in this thread), but the trick is to recognize the correct natural color progression in cases where the toning has not formed in the classic rainbow bands, such as the second coin posted above.

Perhaps someday a couple of us will put on a little seminar at ANA with photos, to help folks learn more. In the meanwhile, those who are not experienced in the field, who have not examined hundreds or thousands of toned Morgans, should be more cautious in their pronouncements.

As for university degrees and an alleged knowledge of chemistry, well I'm afraid the value of both has just been taken down a notch. A piece of paper (or even parchment) does not make one an expert in anything.

Best,
Sunnywood

Connecticoin · October 24, 2006 9:29PM

<< Coin guy, you really are ignorant and I am not calling names; I will not tell you any more than that I do have three college degrees. You are a fool if you are buying such coins but I congratulate you if you are selling such bits.

Always amazing how stuck pigs howl the loudest!

Read my response fully unless you are too pigheaded to do so. A sufrace spec. run on this or similar coins are likely to reveal sulfa-compound oxidation(s). Actually I do have back ground to make such statements and such coins would be AT until proven otherwise.

I agree with HighRelief - nice looking toners are just that. >>

Hey professor, when you call an obviously mint bag toned Morgan AT, you show close to ZERO knowledge of toned Morgan Dollars. You should do some real research before spouting you mouth off, unless you work for the New York Times.

bestclser1 · October 25, 2006 2:54AM

<< AT vs. NT can be very difficult to discern for some coins ... but NOT for bag-toned Morgans. The classic thin-film color progressions are in full evidence on all three of these coins. it is most obvious on the first one, but if you know what to look for, it is equally obvious on the other two. For example, check out the slim reverse crescent on the third coin.

I don't mean to be rude, but anyone who insists that these coins are AT is simply dead wrong, and has not studied toned Morgans. Recognizing the progression is easy in some cases (like the first coin posted in this thread), but the trick is to recognize the correct natural color progression in cases where the toning has not formed in the classic rainbow bands, such as the second coin posted above.

Perhaps someday a couple of us will put on a little seminar at ANA with photos, to help folks learn more. In the meanwhile, those who are not experienced in the field, who have not examined hundreds or thousands of toned Morgans, should be more cautious in their pronouncements.

As for university degrees and an alleged knowledge of chemistry, well I'm afraid the value of both has just been taken down a notch. A piece of paper (or even parchment) does not make one an expert in anything.

Best,
Sunnywood >>

Sunnywood,You have adressed this much more eloquently than i could have and would be proud to help with any ANA project to inform the public on toned Morgans,Best,Lloyd

GoldenEyeNumismatics · October 25, 2006 6:29AM

ridiculous

SkyMan · October 25, 2006 7:12AM

<< Hey professor, when you call an obviously mint bag toned Morgan AT, you show close to ZERO knowledge of toned Morgan Dollars. You should do some real research before spouting you mouth off, unless you work for the New York Times. >>

Oooooooh, LOVE it!!!

Nice coins Doug/Lloyd!

Hey, be glad the pictures didn't get panned too!

BobaFett72 · October 25, 2006 7:46AM

Juiced photos, but naturaly toned coins

can't we all just get along?

buffnut · October 25, 2006 8:33AM

Koom-bah-yah man. Koom-bah-yah.

7Jaguars · October 25, 2006 11:59AM

I kind of like "Coinguy" and his cohorts howling though. A fool and his money are soon parted, and quite frankly neither you nor I will change this. Unfortunately, the coins would be AT until proven otherwise it is not the other way around. Looks like, sounds like, smells like....There are many properties of slow and "natural" toning, but this coin does not show them. Also, this coin will likely show traces of atypical sulfur compounds and possibly some organic accelerants or other contaminants.

It seems that many of the responses reveal the inadequacies of the writers. Do not assume anything about my background, but it may suffice to say that you have simply no idea. As neither a thief nor a con with NO money at stake(thank God), it rather makes me suspicious of Coinguy amongst others, and in the manner of Shakespeare: "methinks he doth protest too much"; just what are they up to?

Dog97 · October 25, 2006 12:06PM

<<<There are many properties of slow and "natural" toning, but this coin does not show them. >>>
Scuse the newbie question but I don't know anything about toning. What is the properties of slow & natural toning and and what are the properties of this hideous and blantant AT junk so that I'll know what to look for if I ever find a reputable seller of toned coins?

coinguy1 · October 25, 2006 12:14PM

<>

Please cite the "howling" you refer to? As I recall, you were the one who basically said you you knew what others did not, yet, when asked to back it up, mentioned that you had three degrees and couldn't prove anything. Still, you have seen fit to proclaim that the coins are AT until proven otherwise, despite the fact that collectors with a great deal of experience and knowledge in this area have a different opinion.

<As neither a thief nor a con with NO money at stake(thank God), it rather makes me suspicious of Coinguy amongst others, and in the manner of Shakespeare: "methinks he doth protest too much"; just what are they up to?>>

I rarely handle Morgan Dollars and when I do, they are not usually the wildly toned ones that bring four figures. So, I have no real stake in this matter, other than having a problem with anyone who makes unsubstantiated claims in the tone that you did, with nothing to back it up.

JrGMan2004 · October 25, 2006 12:27PM

<< 

<< A sufrace spec. run on this or similar coins are likely to reveal sulfa-compound oxidation(s). Actually I do have back ground to make such statements and such coins would be AT until proven otherwise. >>

Don't ALL toned coins have sulphide oxidations?

I believe the equation goes something like this: 4Ag + O2 + 2H2O + 2Na2S ---> 2Ag2S + 4NaOH (sorry, don't know how to type subscripts).

I don't even have a college degree.

-Amanda >>

Of course this coin would show such... the toning was caused by sulphur in the mint bags

Recent big ticket toned coins on Ebay

Comments

Leave a Comment